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Please make sure to read the statement from Naniwa that is linked in the full article before commenting. |
I feel really happy about this, I never really understood why Nani would go to coL and this way Quantic has my 2 favorite Protoss-players in the world, how awesome is that! Go Sweden!
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On December 09 2011 18:06 Apophenic wrote:
he will live in StarTale house in korea? isn't idra there also. Naniwa and idra practicing... that ought to be good.
Idra's in the SlayerS house.
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It's looks like nobody can't stand Naniwa as it was in wc3. But nevertheless good luck to him in new team and let's hope that he will show his skill in code A.
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While it is kind of weird how Naniwa is constantly changing teams, his own comments about it sound very reasonable.
Nani is a boss anyway, I couldn't care less which team he's in.
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On December 09 2011 17:58 Zalithian wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 17:52 dormer wrote:On December 09 2011 17:44 Lysanias wrote:On December 09 2011 17:34 DarkRise wrote:
Now he feels what Idra has been experiencing for the past years and this should let others know how difficult it is being in that state.
On topic, I'm really surprise about this transfer. Doesn't Quantic break off with IM recently? Where is Sase and other quantic players been playing/staying in Korea? Won't TL/EG/FXO a better choice or quantic the only option he have? I never got this if you stay in a country for a long period why not learn the language. Korean is completely different from any western language; it takes a lot of time and effort to learn. Assuming that they have enough time and energy when they're not practicing to study the language, it still takes quite a while to get to the point where you can develop good friendships or have meaningful conversations. Obviously learning basic Korean for daily activities is important, and if he wants to live there long-term then yeah, he should find time to study too, but that's a huge commitment of time and energy, and it takes a long time to pay off. I can't speak for Korean as I have not studied it, but if it's around the difficulty of Japanese then it's not really all that difficult. I would personally consider Japanese an easy language, at least as far as speaking goes. Obviously Kanji adds on the difficulty exponentially, but not necessary for speaking. Being regularly exposed to Korean would make learning it a lot easier as well.
According to a lot Korean is very easy to learn, i would say it's more easy then Japanese but i am no expert either.
So i understand it's a commitment and if you stay for 3/6 months it might not be worth the time, but for longer periods of time, come on there is no excuse not to learn and start bonding with your housemates.
Culture is different yes, but that should not stop possible friendships if your willing to addapt and be openminded, and speak the basic language.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On December 09 2011 18:17 Lysanias wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 17:58 Zalithian wrote:On December 09 2011 17:52 dormer wrote:On December 09 2011 17:44 Lysanias wrote:On December 09 2011 17:34 DarkRise wrote:
Now he feels what Idra has been experiencing for the past years and this should let others know how difficult it is being in that state.
On topic, I'm really surprise about this transfer. Doesn't Quantic break off with IM recently? Where is Sase and other quantic players been playing/staying in Korea? Won't TL/EG/FXO a better choice or quantic the only option he have? I never got this if you stay in a country for a long period why not learn the language. Korean is completely different from any western language; it takes a lot of time and effort to learn. Assuming that they have enough time and energy when they're not practicing to study the language, it still takes quite a while to get to the point where you can develop good friendships or have meaningful conversations. Obviously learning basic Korean for daily activities is important, and if he wants to live there long-term then yeah, he should find time to study too, but that's a huge commitment of time and energy, and it takes a long time to pay off. I can't speak for Korean as I have not studied it, but if it's around the difficulty of Japanese then it's not really all that difficult. I would personally consider Japanese an easy language, at least as far as speaking goes. Obviously Kanji adds on the difficulty exponentially, but not necessary for speaking. Being regularly exposed to Korean would make learning it a lot easier as well. According to a lot Korean is very easy to learn, i would say it's more easy then Japanese but i am no expert either. So i understand it's a commitment and if you stay for 3/6 months it might not be worth the time, but for longer periods of time, come on there is no excuse not to learn and start bonding with your housemates. Culture is different yes, but that should not stop possible friendships if your willing to addapt and be openminded, and speak the basic language.
Korean is about on the same level as Japanese, but much much easier than Chinese.
English is much harder to learn for a Korean than vice versa, because many of the letters correspond to multiple pronunciations. I think it's called an imperfect phoneme? For example, "evil" and "devil", despite being spelled similarly, are read differently. Korean, Japanese, and Chinese, have one sound per "letter", which makes it easy to read.
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Learning any language of a different language group takes determination and time. Unless you study Korean or Japanese diligently, there's no way you can get to a decent speaking level in less than a year, it's not even in the same league as learning a western language like spanish or german.
I personally feel that if you're planning to live for a longer period in another country, you should definitely try to learn important aspects of the language and culture, but I wouldn't expect anyone who moves to korea for a year to learn much of the language, unless they moved there to study it.
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On December 09 2011 18:23 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 18:17 Lysanias wrote:On December 09 2011 17:58 Zalithian wrote:On December 09 2011 17:52 dormer wrote:On December 09 2011 17:44 Lysanias wrote:On December 09 2011 17:34 DarkRise wrote:
Now he feels what Idra has been experiencing for the past years and this should let others know how difficult it is being in that state.
On topic, I'm really surprise about this transfer. Doesn't Quantic break off with IM recently? Where is Sase and other quantic players been playing/staying in Korea? Won't TL/EG/FXO a better choice or quantic the only option he have? I never got this if you stay in a country for a long period why not learn the language. Korean is completely different from any western language; it takes a lot of time and effort to learn. Assuming that they have enough time and energy when they're not practicing to study the language, it still takes quite a while to get to the point where you can develop good friendships or have meaningful conversations. Obviously learning basic Korean for daily activities is important, and if he wants to live there long-term then yeah, he should find time to study too, but that's a huge commitment of time and energy, and it takes a long time to pay off. I can't speak for Korean as I have not studied it, but if it's around the difficulty of Japanese then it's not really all that difficult. I would personally consider Japanese an easy language, at least as far as speaking goes. Obviously Kanji adds on the difficulty exponentially, but not necessary for speaking. Being regularly exposed to Korean would make learning it a lot easier as well. According to a lot Korean is very easy to learn, i would say it's more easy then Japanese but i am no expert either. So i understand it's a commitment and if you stay for 3/6 months it might not be worth the time, but for longer periods of time, come on there is no excuse not to learn and start bonding with your housemates. Culture is different yes, but that should not stop possible friendships if your willing to addapt and be openminded, and speak the basic language. Korean is about on the same level as Japanese, but much much easier than Chinese. English is much harder to learn for a Korean than vice versa, because many of the letters correspond to multiple pronunciations. I think it's called an imperfect phoneme? For example, "evil" and "devil", despite being spelled similarly, are read differently. Korean, Japanese, and Chinese, have one sound per "letter", which makes it easy to read.
That's not really true. First of all, you can learn Chinese to a speaking level about as fast as Japanese or Korean. It's even easier in many aspects because it has pretty much no grammar and the word order is very similar to English.
Second, Korean also has issues with it's ortography, the same letter can be pronounced differently depending on if it's at the start of a word, or if it's at the end of a syllable. Compared to English though, it's definitely a LOT more logical.
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On December 09 2011 18:24 Tobberoth wrote:
Learning any language of a different language group takes determination and time. Unless you study Korean or Japanese diligently, there's no way you can get to a decent speaking level in less than a year, it's not even in the same league as learning a western language like spanish or german.
I personally feel that if you're planning to live for a longer period in another country, you should definitely try to learn important aspects of the language and culture, but I wouldn't expect anyone who moves to korea for a year to learn much of the language, unless they moved there to study it.
That is why it is called the basics, you don't need to understand everything, but a simple conversation goes a long way.
And i was talking about the Idra aspect he stayed in korea for 3 years ?
Some one said if Naniwa was lonely now he would know how Idra felt.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On December 09 2011 18:27 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 18:23 lichter wrote:On December 09 2011 18:17 Lysanias wrote:On December 09 2011 17:58 Zalithian wrote:On December 09 2011 17:52 dormer wrote:On December 09 2011 17:44 Lysanias wrote:On December 09 2011 17:34 DarkRise wrote:
Now he feels what Idra has been experiencing for the past years and this should let others know how difficult it is being in that state.
On topic, I'm really surprise about this transfer. Doesn't Quantic break off with IM recently? Where is Sase and other quantic players been playing/staying in Korea? Won't TL/EG/FXO a better choice or quantic the only option he have? I never got this if you stay in a country for a long period why not learn the language. Korean is completely different from any western language; it takes a lot of time and effort to learn. Assuming that they have enough time and energy when they're not practicing to study the language, it still takes quite a while to get to the point where you can develop good friendships or have meaningful conversations. Obviously learning basic Korean for daily activities is important, and if he wants to live there long-term then yeah, he should find time to study too, but that's a huge commitment of time and energy, and it takes a long time to pay off. I can't speak for Korean as I have not studied it, but if it's around the difficulty of Japanese then it's not really all that difficult. I would personally consider Japanese an easy language, at least as far as speaking goes. Obviously Kanji adds on the difficulty exponentially, but not necessary for speaking. Being regularly exposed to Korean would make learning it a lot easier as well. According to a lot Korean is very easy to learn, i would say it's more easy then Japanese but i am no expert either. So i understand it's a commitment and if you stay for 3/6 months it might not be worth the time, but for longer periods of time, come on there is no excuse not to learn and start bonding with your housemates. Culture is different yes, but that should not stop possible friendships if your willing to addapt and be openminded, and speak the basic language. Korean is about on the same level as Japanese, but much much easier than Chinese. English is much harder to learn for a Korean than vice versa, because many of the letters correspond to multiple pronunciations. I think it's called an imperfect phoneme? For example, "evil" and "devil", despite being spelled similarly, are read differently. Korean, Japanese, and Chinese, have one sound per "letter", which makes it easy to read. That's not really true. First of all, you can learn Chinese to a speaking level about as fast as Japanese or Korean. It's even easier in many aspects because it has pretty much no grammar and the word order is very similar to English. Second, Korean also has issues with it's ortography, the same letter can be pronounced differently depending on if it's at the start of a word, or if it's at the end of a syllable. Compared to English though, it's definitely a LOT more logical.
I have no experience studying Korean, though a close friend of mine does and she was able to take us around Korea having only studied for 4 months or so. She says the pronunciation of words is easy, so I apologize if it isn't so.
Chinese has accents, Japanese has none. I speak both, and have studied both with Westerners and Chinese is always more difficult to pick up due to the accent (edit: or is it intonation? Not sure what you call it). It's more difficult to pronounce properly, and many word-meanings have the same pronunciation, making it more confusing. Chinese grammar is easier though, I agree.
PS English is not my first language either
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English is much harder to learn for a Korean than vice versa, because many of the letters correspond to multiple pronunciations. I think it's called an imperfect phoneme? For example, "evil" and "devil", despite being spelled similarly, are read differently. Korean, Japanese, and Chinese, have one sound per "letter", which makes it easy to read.
Wasn't the intonation also very important in the eastern languages? E.g. same word said with different intonation means 2 different things.
As for Naniwa, he really looks like a cold, emotionless guy in his interviews. But appart from that he is really good, moreover he sounds like he knows what he is doing with all those team switches.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
OOPS! Pressed quote instead of edit :p
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On December 09 2011 18:29 Lysanias wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 18:24 Tobberoth wrote:
Learning any language of a different language group takes determination and time. Unless you study Korean or Japanese diligently, there's no way you can get to a decent speaking level in less than a year, it's not even in the same league as learning a western language like spanish or german.
I personally feel that if you're planning to live for a longer period in another country, you should definitely try to learn important aspects of the language and culture, but I wouldn't expect anyone who moves to korea for a year to learn much of the language, unless they moved there to study it. That is why it is called the basics, you don't need to understand everything, but a simple conversation goes a long way. And i was talking about the Idra aspect he stayed in korea for 3 years ? Some one said if Naniwa was lonely now he would know how Idra felt.
Yeah, I find it mindboggeling that Idra isn't decent in Korean, I can't imagine how isolated one must feel living in Korea speaking only English for such a long time. I've personally been to Korea many times and I definitely feel their lack of skill in English is overstated, but still, the freedom you enjoy it a different country if you know enough of the language to get around is priceless.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On December 09 2011 18:31 Gesh wrote:Show nested quote +English is much harder to learn for a Korean than vice versa, because many of the letters correspond to multiple pronunciations. I think it's called an imperfect phoneme? For example, "evil" and "devil", despite being spelled similarly, are read differently. Korean, Japanese, and Chinese, have one sound per "letter", which makes it easy to read. Wasn't the intonation also very important in the eastern languages? E.g. same word said with different intonation means 2 different things. As for Naniwa, he really looks like a cold, emotionless guy in his interviews. But appart from that he is really good, moreover he sounds like he knows what he is doing with all those team switches.
Only for Chinese.
Japanese also has accents (Osaka vs Tokyo in their pronunciation of -u, etc), but the word doesn't change.. you just look silly for pronouncing it funny.
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On December 09 2011 18:30 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 18:27 Tobberoth wrote:On December 09 2011 18:23 lichter wrote:On December 09 2011 18:17 Lysanias wrote:On December 09 2011 17:58 Zalithian wrote:On December 09 2011 17:52 dormer wrote:On December 09 2011 17:44 Lysanias wrote:On December 09 2011 17:34 DarkRise wrote:
Now he feels what Idra has been experiencing for the past years and this should let others know how difficult it is being in that state.
On topic, I'm really surprise about this transfer. Doesn't Quantic break off with IM recently? Where is Sase and other quantic players been playing/staying in Korea? Won't TL/EG/FXO a better choice or quantic the only option he have? I never got this if you stay in a country for a long period why not learn the language. Korean is completely different from any western language; it takes a lot of time and effort to learn. Assuming that they have enough time and energy when they're not practicing to study the language, it still takes quite a while to get to the point where you can develop good friendships or have meaningful conversations. Obviously learning basic Korean for daily activities is important, and if he wants to live there long-term then yeah, he should find time to study too, but that's a huge commitment of time and energy, and it takes a long time to pay off. I can't speak for Korean as I have not studied it, but if it's around the difficulty of Japanese then it's not really all that difficult. I would personally consider Japanese an easy language, at least as far as speaking goes. Obviously Kanji adds on the difficulty exponentially, but not necessary for speaking. Being regularly exposed to Korean would make learning it a lot easier as well. According to a lot Korean is very easy to learn, i would say it's more easy then Japanese but i am no expert either. So i understand it's a commitment and if you stay for 3/6 months it might not be worth the time, but for longer periods of time, come on there is no excuse not to learn and start bonding with your housemates. Culture is different yes, but that should not stop possible friendships if your willing to addapt and be openminded, and speak the basic language. Korean is about on the same level as Japanese, but much much easier than Chinese. English is much harder to learn for a Korean than vice versa, because many of the letters correspond to multiple pronunciations. I think it's called an imperfect phoneme? For example, "evil" and "devil", despite being spelled similarly, are read differently. Korean, Japanese, and Chinese, have one sound per "letter", which makes it easy to read. That's not really true. First of all, you can learn Chinese to a speaking level about as fast as Japanese or Korean. It's even easier in many aspects because it has pretty much no grammar and the word order is very similar to English. Second, Korean also has issues with it's ortography, the same letter can be pronounced differently depending on if it's at the start of a word, or if it's at the end of a syllable. Compared to English though, it's definitely a LOT more logical. I have no experience studying Korean, though a close friend of mine does and she was able to take us around Korea having only studied for 4 months or so. She says the pronunciation of words is easy, so I apologize if it isn't so. Chinese has accents, Japanese has none. I speak both, and have studied both with Westerners and Chinese is always more difficult to pick up due to the accent (edit: or is it intonation? Not sure what you call it). It's more difficult to pronounce properly, and many word-meanings have the same pronunciation, making it more confusing. Chinese grammar is easier though, I agree. PS English is not my first language either
Korean is way harder to pronounce than Japanese, but it is of course far easier than Chinese. Chinese has tones, Japanese doesn't, but Japanese does have accents, and word meanings do change if you mess them up. Mora are either high or low and the order has to be correct. For example, ame can be either high-low or low-heigh, the first meaning rain, the second meaning candy.
I personally speak japanese more or less fluently, and I only have limited experience with korean and mandarin, but I have lots of friends who live in China and speak the language fine. They all say that while tones is a big thing in the beginning, you master it pretty quickly and it actually matters little later on. In Swedish and american schools etc, a lot of emphasis is put on it, but when you study it in China, it's more or less ignored because you get used to it and start to adopt it more or less automatically, in a similar vain as accents in japanese and stress in english/Swedish.
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On December 09 2011 05:41 Canucklehead wrote:Naniwa is in a race with major to see who can play on the most teams in sc2. 
At least Naniwa's name has remained static though..
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On December 09 2011 18:37 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 18:30 lichter wrote:On December 09 2011 18:27 Tobberoth wrote:On December 09 2011 18:23 lichter wrote:On December 09 2011 18:17 Lysanias wrote:On December 09 2011 17:58 Zalithian wrote:On December 09 2011 17:52 dormer wrote:On December 09 2011 17:44 Lysanias wrote:On December 09 2011 17:34 DarkRise wrote:
Now he feels what Idra has been experiencing for the past years and this should let others know how difficult it is being in that state.
On topic, I'm really surprise about this transfer. Doesn't Quantic break off with IM recently? Where is Sase and other quantic players been playing/staying in Korea? Won't TL/EG/FXO a better choice or quantic the only option he have? I never got this if you stay in a country for a long period why not learn the language. Korean is completely different from any western language; it takes a lot of time and effort to learn. Assuming that they have enough time and energy when they're not practicing to study the language, it still takes quite a while to get to the point where you can develop good friendships or have meaningful conversations. Obviously learning basic Korean for daily activities is important, and if he wants to live there long-term then yeah, he should find time to study too, but that's a huge commitment of time and energy, and it takes a long time to pay off. I can't speak for Korean as I have not studied it, but if it's around the difficulty of Japanese then it's not really all that difficult. I would personally consider Japanese an easy language, at least as far as speaking goes. Obviously Kanji adds on the difficulty exponentially, but not necessary for speaking. Being regularly exposed to Korean would make learning it a lot easier as well. According to a lot Korean is very easy to learn, i would say it's more easy then Japanese but i am no expert either. So i understand it's a commitment and if you stay for 3/6 months it might not be worth the time, but for longer periods of time, come on there is no excuse not to learn and start bonding with your housemates. Culture is different yes, but that should not stop possible friendships if your willing to addapt and be openminded, and speak the basic language. Korean is about on the same level as Japanese, but much much easier than Chinese. English is much harder to learn for a Korean than vice versa, because many of the letters correspond to multiple pronunciations. I think it's called an imperfect phoneme? For example, "evil" and "devil", despite being spelled similarly, are read differently. Korean, Japanese, and Chinese, have one sound per "letter", which makes it easy to read. That's not really true. First of all, you can learn Chinese to a speaking level about as fast as Japanese or Korean. It's even easier in many aspects because it has pretty much no grammar and the word order is very similar to English. Second, Korean also has issues with it's ortography, the same letter can be pronounced differently depending on if it's at the start of a word, or if it's at the end of a syllable. Compared to English though, it's definitely a LOT more logical. I have no experience studying Korean, though a close friend of mine does and she was able to take us around Korea having only studied for 4 months or so. She says the pronunciation of words is easy, so I apologize if it isn't so. Chinese has accents, Japanese has none. I speak both, and have studied both with Westerners and Chinese is always more difficult to pick up due to the accent (edit: or is it intonation? Not sure what you call it). It's more difficult to pronounce properly, and many word-meanings have the same pronunciation, making it more confusing. Chinese grammar is easier though, I agree. PS English is not my first language either Korean is way harder to pronounce than Japanese, but it is of course far easier than Chinese. Chinese has tones, Japanese doesn't, but Japanese does have accents, and word meanings do change if you mess them up. Mora are either high or low and the order has to be correct. For example, ame can be either high-low or low-heigh, the first meaning rain, the second meaning candy. I personally speak japanese more or less fluently, and I only have limited experience with korean and mandarin, but I have lots of friends who live in China and speak the language fine. They all say that while tones is a big thing in the beginning, you master it pretty quickly and it actually matters little later on. In Swedish and american schools etc, a lot of emphasis is put on it, but when you study it in China, it's more or less ignored because you get used to it and start to adopt it more or less automatically, in a similar vain as accents in japanese and stress in english/Swedish.
I've lived in Japan to study Japanese and I've never been taught about any accents. Either my teacher was bad (he was kinda a crazy dude, actually) or the pronunciation of accents is more a dialect than anything strict. Never had any trouble going around and traveling, either, so I'm not sure about this hmm.
I suppose you get used to Chinese tones after listening and using it for a while. Honestly it's more context than tones since everything is said so quick you barely have time to register what the intonation was =/
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Duo Protoss will work some magic in upcoming tournaments!! yay :-)
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Hmm, Naniwa certainly didn't do something too bad since had that been the case they would have simply broken his contract. They wanted him to go because of something he didn't want to do or something he wanted and they wouldn't give and the only way to achieve this was to sell contract. Doubt it has anything to do with BM.
Only thing I hope is that it wasn't problems between Nani and MVP Koreans.
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I have a credible source that says that IdrA was extremely difficult to work with and he would assault his teammates etc. It's from an extremely credible source that's worked with idra in the past. not gonna tell you who, but plz take my word for it. I speak the... er... truth. ESFI world is a fucking joke lol. Never reading that shitty myth-site again.
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EPT
