|
On December 05 2011 00:59 vdale wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 00:53 damod wrote:On December 05 2011 00:42 Talin wrote:On December 05 2011 00:40 damod wrote:On December 05 2011 00:24 Ventris wrote:On December 05 2011 00:21 mcc wrote:On December 05 2011 00:01 Ventor wrote:On December 04 2011 23:59 Ventris wrote:On December 04 2011 23:54 Ventor wrote:On December 04 2011 23:51 Ventris wrote:[quote] 1. mouz isn't from Sweden 2. yeah EG has bought alot of talents after they became big names on other teams  Well after all mouz kicked two EG players and EG only one from mouz  And iNcontroLs tweet is quite pathetic I meant their players, they are almost all swedish. It's painful to see how bias europeans are towards their own players but there is nothing I can do. I enjoy watching a lot of euro players but when I see euros bash on NA players and teams, its quite saddening. So which great NA talents has EG: HuK and IdrA are worldclass. PuMa as well, but he's from Korea. DemusliM can be good when he trains, he is british. The rest of the team is somewhere between midtier and really bad Yes, those are their good players. What's your point? That EG has no homegrown talent, which was the original point that was made ? Unlike the person who claimed that I donot agree with that, I think you can easily count Idra as homegrown talent, but that is it. IdrA was a strong BW player before and was bought by EG after he had an impressive beta and won an MLG i mean c'mon, does a player has to have COMPLETELY no background success in order to be considered an homegrown player ? If he was bought off as an established star player, then no. Idra was by and far the best foreigner when EG got him. EG Supported idrA alot, and i can hardly see the idrA we knew back then as the same idrA we see today. I agree, he has an EG-Beard, EG Muscles and Greater skill now!
finished it for ya ;P
|
This thread is half people who don't understand that two teams can be friendly and still have some fun banter with each other and the other half who think it is awesome and get it. Amazing how many people take this so seriously.
|
On December 05 2011 01:16 damod wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 00:59 vdale wrote:On December 05 2011 00:53 damod wrote:On December 05 2011 00:42 Talin wrote:On December 05 2011 00:40 damod wrote:On December 05 2011 00:24 Ventris wrote:On December 05 2011 00:21 mcc wrote:On December 05 2011 00:01 Ventor wrote:On December 04 2011 23:59 Ventris wrote:On December 04 2011 23:54 Ventor wrote:
[quote]
I meant their players, they are almost all swedish. It's painful to see how bias europeans are towards their own players but there is nothing I can do. I enjoy watching a lot of euro players but when I see euros bash on NA players and teams, its quite saddening. So which great NA talents has EG: HuK and IdrA are worldclass. PuMa as well, but he's from Korea. DemusliM can be good when he trains, he is british. The rest of the team is somewhere between midtier and really bad Yes, those are their good players. What's your point? That EG has no homegrown talent, which was the original point that was made ? Unlike the person who claimed that I donot agree with that, I think you can easily count Idra as homegrown talent, but that is it. IdrA was a strong BW player before and was bought by EG after he had an impressive beta and won an MLG i mean c'mon, does a player has to have COMPLETELY no background success in order to be considered an homegrown player ? If he was bought off as an established star player, then no. Idra was by and far the best foreigner when EG got him. EG Supported idrA alot, and i can hardly see the idrA we knew back then as the same idrA we see today. I agree, he has an EG-Beard, EG Muscles and Greater skill now! finished it for ya ;P
Really, greater skill?
He isn't even half the player he was while on CJ. ;o
|
|
|
On December 05 2011 01:24 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 01:16 damod wrote:On December 05 2011 00:59 vdale wrote:On December 05 2011 00:53 damod wrote:On December 05 2011 00:42 Talin wrote:On December 05 2011 00:40 damod wrote:On December 05 2011 00:24 Ventris wrote:On December 05 2011 00:21 mcc wrote:On December 05 2011 00:01 Ventor wrote:On December 04 2011 23:59 Ventris wrote:
[quote]
So which great NA talents has EG: HuK and IdrA are worldclass. PuMa as well, but he's from Korea. DemusliM can be good when he trains, he is british. The rest of the team is somewhere between midtier and really bad Yes, those are their good players. What's your point? That EG has no homegrown talent, which was the original point that was made ? Unlike the person who claimed that I donot agree with that, I think you can easily count Idra as homegrown talent, but that is it. IdrA was a strong BW player before and was bought by EG after he had an impressive beta and won an MLG i mean c'mon, does a player has to have COMPLETELY no background success in order to be considered an homegrown player ? If he was bought off as an established star player, then no. Idra was by and far the best foreigner when EG got him. EG Supported idrA alot, and i can hardly see the idrA we knew back then as the same idrA we see today. I agree, he has an EG-Beard, EG Muscles and Greater skill now! finished it for ya ;P Really, greater skill? He isn't even half the player he was while on CJ. ;o
If you focus really hard, this quotequotation gets 3 dimensional o0
|
On December 05 2011 01:24 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 01:16 damod wrote:On December 05 2011 00:59 vdale wrote:On December 05 2011 00:53 damod wrote:On December 05 2011 00:42 Talin wrote:On December 05 2011 00:40 damod wrote:On December 05 2011 00:24 Ventris wrote:On December 05 2011 00:21 mcc wrote:On December 05 2011 00:01 Ventor wrote:On December 04 2011 23:59 Ventris wrote:
[quote]
So which great NA talents has EG: HuK and IdrA are worldclass. PuMa as well, but he's from Korea. DemusliM can be good when he trains, he is british. The rest of the team is somewhere between midtier and really bad Yes, those are their good players. What's your point? That EG has no homegrown talent, which was the original point that was made ? Unlike the person who claimed that I donot agree with that, I think you can easily count Idra as homegrown talent, but that is it. IdrA was a strong BW player before and was bought by EG after he had an impressive beta and won an MLG i mean c'mon, does a player has to have COMPLETELY no background success in order to be considered an homegrown player ? If he was bought off as an established star player, then no. Idra was by and far the best foreigner when EG got him. EG Supported idrA alot, and i can hardly see the idrA we knew back then as the same idrA we see today. I agree, he has an EG-Beard, EG Muscles and Greater skill now! finished it for ya ;P Really, greater skill? He isn't even half the player he was while on CJ. ;o
first of all i wasnt talking about idrA's BW days, i was talking idrA's early days in SC2...
second, you cant compare SC2 to BW, i mean look at Nestea (or Zergbong), obviously he wasnt half the player he was in BW the he is in SC2... and yes, i do belive idrA is strogner then he was 1 year ago because of EG.
|
I'm not comparing SC2 to BW, I'm comparing SC2 to SC2 and him being by far the best foreigner and mechanically better than any Korean SC2 player (2010) to him being once-in-a-blue-moon high level foreigner (now).
|
About the "homegrown" talent. I am a big mouz fan and I am glad that with hasuobs they have something like that.
However, as time goes on, more and more players shuffle teams, stuff like this will become more and more scarce throughout the competitive gaming scene (great player that are "homegrown", I mean).
But I don't get why people claim that EG has no "homegrown" talend in the first place, Idra is one example, isn't he? Yes, he was a beast in bw already, but as he positioned himself to be one of the greatest sc2 players outside of Korea, he was under no other flag than the EG one. (what I am trying to say is: idra as a sc2 player is EG through and through. seriously what other team besides eg would you associate him as a sc2 player to?)
|
On December 05 2011 01:33 Talin wrote:
to him being once-in-a-blue-moon high level foreigner (now).
Lol, I think this might be a tad harsh. Which foreign zergs are consistently better than him besides Sen?
|
Regardless of whether or not Idra counts as "homegrown," fact is that he's been on eg since before the vast majority of sc2 fans have been in the scene. (although not of teamliquid sc2 fans, but I'd bet a lot of those too). Idra's and eg's images are totally entwined; Idra being the best foreigner for a long time got eg the image of being a top-tier team, and eg's support of Idra through the bm and ragequit phases gave eg the image of the "bad guy team" even before the puma controversy.
I would really love to see Idra va Thorzain as the big climax to this whole rivalry. Winner wears the other one's jersey to their next LAN. Idra vs Thorzain would put the most iconic player on each team against one another in their best matchup; spoon versus tentacle. Do it as a charity fundraiser or something.
|
On December 05 2011 01:41 Loki57 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 01:33 Talin wrote:
to him being once-in-a-blue-moon high level foreigner (now). Lol, I think this might be a tad harsh. Which foreign zergs are consistently better than him besides Sen?
Yeah, I admit it might have been a little bit harsh, but then again "foreign Zerg" isn't a very broad category either. During autumn 2010 he was comparable to (and in specific elements better than) any other player of any race in the world, and you'd never even have to consider how he ranked among the foreign Zergs.
|
even when mondragon was inactive he was still the best foreigner in bw . Mondragon fangirl inside soo don't try to argue .
|
On December 05 2011 01:33 Talin wrote:
I'm not comparing SC2 to BW, I'm comparing SC2 to SC2 and him being by far the best foreigner and mechanically better than any Korean SC2 player (2010) to him being once-in-a-blue-moon high level foreigner (now).
hmm... have idrA played for CJ in his sc2 days ?
if not then why mentioning that he was alot stronger when he played BW on that team ?
isnt that comparing sc2 to bw ?
|
On December 05 2011 01:51 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 01:41 Loki57 wrote:On December 05 2011 01:33 Talin wrote:
to him being once-in-a-blue-moon high level foreigner (now). Lol, I think this might be a tad harsh. Which foreign zergs are consistently better than him besides Sen? Yeah, I admit it might have been a little bit harsh, but then again "foreign Zerg" isn't a very broad category either. During autumn 2010 he was comparable to (and in specific elements better than) any other player of any race in the world, and you'd never even have to consider how he ranked among the foreign Zergs.
Fair enough, but I guess we'll be able to compare them a lot easier when IdrA goes to Korea and we see how he fares in Code A. I'd like to think he'd be Code S caliber if he cleans up his ZvP ALOT and maybe gets a little less predictable ZvT.
|
On December 05 2011 01:59 damod wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 01:33 Talin wrote:
I'm not comparing SC2 to BW, I'm comparing SC2 to SC2 and him being by far the best foreigner and mechanically better than any Korean SC2 player (2010) to him being once-in-a-blue-moon high level foreigner (now). hmm... have idrA played for CJ in his sc2 days ? if not then why mentioning that he was alot stronger when he played BW on that team ? isnt that comparing sc2 to bw ?
He was in CJ entus before moving to EG and did play his first GSL while still living in the house/being in the team if i'm not horribly mistaken. ( Didn't he have CJ shirt on in his first GSL appearance)
Correct me if i'm wrong. And yes, i know he lived with Tasteless after leaving CJ house, but can't remember when it was exactly.
|
On December 05 2011 01:33 Talin wrote:
I'm not comparing SC2 to BW, I'm comparing SC2 to SC2 and him being by far the best foreigner and mechanically better than any Korean SC2 player (2010) to him being once-in-a-blue-moon high level foreigner (now).
You are such a troll...
-IdrA is still a top foreigner
-He was not mechanically better than all the korean SC2 players, even when the majority of the B teamer hadn't joined SC2 yet (bomber, puma, mvp), Cool, tester, F***ing nada were at the very least as strong as him.
-Of course IdrA didn't stay at the top of the SC2 world, it's impossible for someone who doesn't practice in a korean team house. But he did remain a top tier player, which can not be said about a lot of other players who dominate that time (jinro, rainbow, fruitdealer, tester,..) despite the fact that he is not in Korea anymore, and that might have something to do with EG...
On December 05 2011 01:39 JustPassingBy wrote:
About the "homegrown" talent. I am a big mouz fan and I am glad that with hasuobs they have something like that.
However, as time goes on, more and more players shuffle teams, stuff like this will become more and more scarce throughout the competitive gaming scene (great player that are "homegrown", I mean).
But I don't get why people claim that EG has no "homegrown" talend in the first place, Idra is one example, isn't he? Yes, he was a beast in bw already, but as he positioned himself to be one of the greatest sc2 players outside of Korea, he was under no other flag than the EG one. (what I am trying to say is: idra as a sc2 player is EG through and through. seriously what other team besides eg would you associate him as a sc2 player to?)
The notion of homegrown talent is kinda stupid at the moment,especially with teams like EG and Mouz from which all the players except marine were competitive players of SC2 (huk) or other games (IdrA, Puma, Inc, morrow and even mana were from BW, the rest is from WC3). None of them were discovered as prospect and brought up to high level.
And if the level of those players has grown, it has probably more to do with their practice environment (eg house, "tlo" house, korean houses) than the fact that belong to a certain team (they don't even seem to practice against each other a lot).
|
For the guy who is arguing about EG buying IdrA - IdrA didn't even go to MLG until after signing with EG.
JSYK.
|
On December 05 2011 01:42 strongandbig wrote:
Regardless of whether or not Idra counts as "homegrown," fact is that he's been on eg since before the vast majority of sc2 fans have been in the scene. (although not of teamliquid sc2 fans, but I'd bet a lot of those too). Idra's and eg's images are totally entwined; Idra being the best foreigner for a long time got eg the image of being a top-tier team, and eg's support of Idra through the bm and ragequit phases gave eg the image of the "bad guy team" even before the puma controversy.
I would really love to see Idra va Thorzain as the big climax to this whole rivalry. Winner wears the other one's jersey to their next LAN. Idra vs Thorzain would put the most iconic player on each team against one another in their best matchup; spoon versus tentacle. Do it as a charity fundraiser or something.
When has Idra been the best foreigner? IEM Guangzhou was a good win, but Jinro did better when they both were in the GSL and after that HuK has done far better than Idra. Naniwa, Ret and maybe few other could make a case for better resume than Idra too. Idra is high tier foreigner, but the best? Not.
|
On December 05 2011 02:10 Diavlo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 01:33 Talin wrote:
I'm not comparing SC2 to BW, I'm comparing SC2 to SC2 and him being by far the best foreigner and mechanically better than any Korean SC2 player (2010) to him being once-in-a-blue-moon high level foreigner (now). You are such a troll... -IdrA is still a top foreigner -He was not mechanically better than all the korean SC2 players, even when the majority of the B teamer hadn't joined SC2 yet (bomber, puma, mvp), Cool, tester, F***ing nada were at the very least as strong as him.
He was mechanically better than Cool, Tester and Nada (who wasn't even around until much later). As an overall player he had major flaws, but especially during GSL 1/2, almost all the players were mechanically inferior to him, or even at best. He was a legitimate contender and would have gone much further if not all the way if the game wasn't so new, volatile and if it didn't have major balance issues (and if he didn't lose to proxy Void Rays and unscouted bases, but that again is a different point).
Even today there still aren't that many players in Korean SC2 who were even B teamers btw. Majority of the currently active players didn't even have a progaming licence and were practice partners for the teams or in rare cases their progaming careers ended a few years ago. Not that Idra got his licence in the fairest of ways, but at least he was getting to that level near the end of his BW career.
If you're arguing that he's doing better at EG than he would have been doing if he were on oGs or TSL from the start or SlayerS when they formed... then you're arguing against common sense.
|
this is pretty cool. i really like to see teams having a friendly rivalry. It keeps things interesting, and it's all in good fun as long as everybody treats it as a friendly rivalry. There needs to be more of this in profession gaming. Just look at American Football for example. I am a Cincinnati Bengals fan and they are playing Shittsburgh Steelers today. Huge rivalry, and it makes the game 10x more fun to watch because of that. Things like this is what esports needs!
anyway I have my e-dollars on Mouz! :D
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
