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On November 16 2011 08:25 Harstem wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 08:24 TotalBiscuit wrote:
So I get streamsniped sometimes, which is amusing because I am in Gold league. It's actually quite a problem for me, makes the matches much tougher because as a gold league player my play is very limited in terms of what I can reliably do so I am far more predictable if people have watched my stream and gotten an idea of my playstyle. I don't really begrudge people for doing it but for a time I did run a short 1 minute delay on my stream to prevent it from happening because it was causing me difficulties at the time. Hi Totalbiscuit, I get that it sometimes is annoying, but is it a good enough reason to just blindly call someone a stream cheater?
No it's not a good enough reason for calling someone a stream cheater, however I don't really see how you can just assume everyone should give you the benefit of the doubt that you are honest with your sniping. With something like stream sniping the only thing we really have to go off of in terms of evidence is "You stream cheat." "No I don't.". Unfortunately that's not much to go on so people tend to have their own personal opinions. It is unfair to be called a cheater when you snipe someone's stream but I can't really understand how you don't see why people aren't going to give you the benefit of the doubt, especially with someone like IncontroL and his past experiences with stream snipers.
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On November 16 2011 08:30 Junichi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 08:21 Harstem wrote:
Hi Cascade,
I get your point, but I still feel like he shouldn't just blindly state before the game even really started "you stream cheat" that is all I wanted to achieve by creating this thread. Have a good night and see you in the morning!
Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 08:15 Junichi wrote:
Somehow I feel this thread isn't really about stream sniping anymore, but about Harstem trying to get an "apology" out of incontrol.
At Harstem: I can't shake the feeling this thread is more about you getting recognition and "clearing" your name, than about discussing whether or not stream sniping is ok, or not. Being right is nice... Harstem I really think you shouldn't pay so much attention to what other people think of you.
I feel like it's more of an explanation for his sniping, and trying to get people to know that he in not a cheater, because it seems most people he snipes blindly call him a cheater, making all of the viewers of that stream have a similar opinion.
Maybe he just really likes playing with notable people and using their stream as an advertising program.
I don't personally know OP, so I can't speak for him, but I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt until proved otherwise.
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Getting exposure through stream sniping is like punching a celebrity in the face. Yea you'll get noticed, but no one is going to like you for it.
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On November 16 2011 08:39 Tachion wrote:
Getting exposure through stream sniping is like punching a celebrity in the face. Yea you'll get noticed, but no one is going to like you for it.
Punch Justing Bieber in the face and you'll hate the hate of millions of teen girls, but you'll be the hero of millions of cool dudes too.
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On November 16 2011 08:21 Harstem wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 08:16 Cascade wrote:
While inc probably shouldnt call you a 100% cheater without proof, maybe you can have som understanding for his side. He sometimes streams, and when he does, he often get matched with snipers. Many of these cheat. There is no way whatsoever to prove if they are cheating or not, yet he knows that a big fraction does.
Ofc inc will feel frustrated, as he wants to show games to his fans, but is annoyed by the stream cheaters. I can perfectly well understand that it is not so easy for him to always go "well, I have no solid proof that this guy doesnt cheat, so I wont be annoyed at him". When he encounters another stream sniper, and thus probably a cheater, he will get annoyed and things like that can slip.
So when you snipe, realise that you mix yourself in with a group of cheaters, and there is no way for anyone to tell if you are cheating or not. I dont think stream sniping is helping the streamer much, actually I just think it blocks him from potentially getting matched with someone really good (snipers are often a bit below the level of the streamer), thus actually making the stream less enjoyable to watch.
So in the end I have no sympathy for you. I have no idea if you cheat or not, and you will never be able to prove either, but even assuming you are not cheating, you are still harming the stream (by blocking him from better opponents, by advertising yourself, and by putting the streamer in a bad mood for facing another sniper/cheater). Why? attention.
If you want attention, (maybe even positive attention, who knows!) then write a guide in the strategy section with your favourite build,exlplaining all its ins and outs, and attach a replay pack. I assume you are high master (or GM) if you get matched with inc, so you should be able to do that in a way that help a lot of people. gl.
Hi Cascade, I get your point, but I still feel like he shouldn't just blindly state before the game even really started "you stream cheat" that is all I wanted to achieve by creating this thread. Have a good night and see you in the morning!
You steal streamers time by sniping him because you are probably much worse than him.You stole stream watchers time because maybe he gets matched against another progamer but instead a stream sniper self promoterlow level player.I think you are as bad as stream snipers and you will never be recognized as a good player.
If you really want to play versus pro players join online tournaments.Eventually you will get matched against pro gamers and if you win against them without sniping bullshit you will get recognized.
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On November 16 2011 08:46 TheChostoProject wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 08:39 Tachion wrote:
Getting exposure through stream sniping is like punching a celebrity in the face. Yea you'll get noticed, but no one is going to like you for it. Punch Justing Bieber in the face and you'll hate the hate of millions of teen girls, but you'll be the hero of millions of cool dudes too.
Well, you could punch incontrol in the face and see how that works out for you... 
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I think the problem with it if you do it multiple times in row. It's ok to watch for the first couple of games but after that it gets a little boring to watch the streamer play the same person over and over so you end up directly impacting the streamer's viewer count which could be a significant part of their income.
Also if the streamer is looking for some good practice games they'll likely be after a little variety, if they wanted a practice partner they would have asked someone on their friends list, having to go up against you over and over is not ideal practice.
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I think that stream snipping is always going to viewed in a negative light because of the negative icons we have in this community, so be ready for the hate you are going to get, you are taking that on yourself.
I honestly think it's not so bad to stream snipe a player once, close the stream, and just play the game. Don't tell them you sniped, just play the game and see if you win or lose.
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Sounds like you're trying to justify what you do to yourself. If you feel that way, maybe you shouldn't do it.
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On November 16 2011 08:54 KimJongIlJr wrote:
Sounds like you're trying to justify what you do to yourself. If you feel that way, maybe you shouldn't do it.
No, he's just saying that just because he stream snipes to play with pros does not mean he's a cheater.
._.
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On November 16 2011 07:03 iNcontroL wrote:
lets break this down:
player wants more exposure so he snipes high level / famous players.
player has stream going to snipe but won't look at it cause he is an honorable guy.
Player realizes sniping is half the battle. Why not do a weeeeeeeee bit cheating as well? Winning makes you famous.
Stream sniper becomes stream cheater. All the while they swear "nah I am not like the others! I don't do it!"
I don't trust players to be admirable and not cheat when they have nothing at stake. If Sheth is found cheating he loses public image etc.. it's bad. If Hammerstanstein is found cheating nobody cares.
if you admit you stream snipe don't fault the people who don't trust you to not go the 1 step further and cheat.
well said
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How about you stream your own games stream sniping people.
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On November 16 2011 07:22 JEcho wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 07:20 Harstem wrote:On November 16 2011 07:17 Ulquiorra wrote:
Put yourself in the shoes of your opponent. If someone makes it obvious that they intentionally are trying to snipe you then you know that at some point they had the stream open, would you trust a stranger to be admirable and shut off the stream? There are scenarios in which there is no cheating going on but the possibility of you cheating ruins any publicity you receive. Try other ways to receive attention and publicity. Hi Ulquiorra, I completely understand that there is some kind of distrust towards people who stream snipe, but I think innocent until proven guilty is a good guideline to follow here. So people stream for many reasons, revenue, fun, publicity. You stream snipe (abusing the way ladder should work but technically not breaking any rules) for whatever reasons benefit you despite the negative effect on the streamer. They call you out for cheating thus hopefully sabotaging any gains from your sniping and possible cheating. fair no?>
good point altho its a bit extreme
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If I was a pro player I would not care if i was sniped or stream-cheated. I'd let my superior skills overcome the handicap. Instead of thinking "hurrrr this guy is stream cheating blarg" I would just play a super solid build. "yeah, you know exactly what I'm doing, but it doesn't matter, because I'm going to crush you straight up anyways" would be my philosophy. Forget trying cute tactics or trying to catch them by surprise in this situation. Is it annoying and lame? Yes, but that's the ladder in general. If they don't want to deal with it then play some custom games.
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You are incredibly ignorant. Yes it's ok to snipe somebody once, but don't fucking keep doing it. What I saw you doing is sniping incontrol today over and over. It's annoying playing the same person all the freaking time. Stream cheating and stream sniping can be just as annoying to a streamer. I understand you're trying to get publicity, but you're not getting good publicity. Everyone thinks you're just the annoying fucking wanna be stream sniper. Is that the type of publicity you want? I guess if you want to be known as that annoying stream sniper that's cool. But there are already hundreds of other people that do that so you're not special or original.
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Everyone that streams knows the risks. If you are streaming ladder or a tournament, it is for your viewers and for yourself. If someone decides to stream cheat you, then the only person you can blame is yourself. People are greedy, that is just the way the world works.
If you have ~500+ viewers and you have a name in the community, what is more important to you: risking your tournament results or providing entertainment for your viewers? That is something you must choose for yourself.
However, there are those people that are proven cheaters, and you can adjust your stream accordingly. Desrow has a hilarious tiny screen he puts up as an overlay for the stream cheaters. Just do that IMO and then upload the replay if people want to see the game. You could even make a youtube video out of it and analyze your play. Make something positive out of something negative and you will be a happier person :D
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On November 16 2011 08:03 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 07:54 Uncultured wrote:
Calling someone a cheater when you have no evidence they cheated, and basing that judgement solely on past experience of a few bad people doing so... Is incredibly ignorant. People like Incontrol need to have the professionalism to realize that what they say can carry a lot of weight, and possibly end someones career for no reason at all.
Calling every stream-sniper a stream-cheater is ridiculously silly. I love it when people call into question "professionalism" I am a professional. I stream for money and to extend my social-reach. When someone spams my game with their twitter, says "sup guys" to my stream and then complains when I call them a "stream cheater" I have no regrets. if that makes me unprofessional so be it.
he did pretty much the same thing with him :D
I agree with you on this one
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On November 16 2011 08:25 Harstem wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 08:24 TotalBiscuit wrote:
So I get streamsniped sometimes, which is amusing because I am in Gold league. It's actually quite a problem for me, makes the matches much tougher because as a gold league player my play is very limited in terms of what I can reliably do so I am far more predictable if people have watched my stream and gotten an idea of my playstyle. I don't really begrudge people for doing it but for a time I did run a short 1 minute delay on my stream to prevent it from happening because it was causing me difficulties at the time. Hi Totalbiscuit, I get that it sometimes is annoying, but is it a good enough reason to just blindly call someone a stream cheater?
It's a very easy get-out that I've used to excuse my losses in the past. The fact is that you were already tuned into the stream, the other person is relying entirely on an honour system by which you turn the stream off while playing. For me, it would be ridiculously easy to stream-cheat, I play entirely in a window, I don't even need a second monitor. Are you remotely surprised that people call you out on it?
I fully agree with Geoff, there is no way to know that you aren't streamcheating, you're already more than halfway there by just having the stream up in order to snipe him in the first place. He is well within his rights to accuse you or anyone else of streamcheating in that situation, why shouldn't he? Anyone who thinks saying so is unprofessional is living in a fucking fantasy world and is not in the position to make such accusations.
TBH, this will be solved when Justin implements it's proper delay system, the app they currently have doesn't run with Xsplit as far as I can figure out and Xsplit's delay system is unreliable at present. Simply putting a 1 minute delay on will prevent sniping.
It is also a problem with Battle.net, there is no way it should allow you to play the same person over and over again on the ladder, there should be a cooldown period that prevents it from happening after a game has concluded.
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On November 16 2011 09:13 TheCreature wrote:
You are incredibly ignorant. Yes it's ok to snipe somebody once, but don't fucking keep doing it. What I saw you doing is sniping incontrol today over and over. It's annoying playing the same person all the freaking time. Stream cheating and stream sniping can be just as annoying to a streamer. I understand you're trying to get publicity, but you're not getting good publicity. Everyone thinks you're just the annoying fucking wanna be stream sniper. Is that the type of publicity you want? I guess if you want to be known as that annoying stream sniper that's cool. But there are already hundreds of other people that do that so you're not special or original.
good point.
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If you are stream sniping to play top players just be happy when you get the game you want. No need to show off to the streamer or the spectators, that will just leave a bad impression and arouse suspicion.
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EPT
