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So basically:
- You snipe a pro now and then if you see him streaming, but only for one game, this doesn't even make you look like a sniper, just a lucky guy queing into a pro (since you don't do it repeatedly, you're basically not a nuisance like other snipers).
- You don't actually cheat, you just snipe.
- Nobody knew you did this before, there have been no accusations on you so there's nothing to "justify".
- Who doesn't know that snipe = watch him que and then que at the same time and cheat = look at the stream to see what he does?
Why did you make this thread again?
Just feels like you wanted more attention.
And the fact that you get surprised when iNcontrol says what he did, it's pretty much right.
Why WOULDN'T you cheat? If you really care so much about wether people think you only snipe or cheat aswell then maybe you should've thought twice about making this thread....?
I'm pretty sure all the other pros earned their position by playing good, winning/placing high in tournaments and showing potential (not showing potential on other pro's streams by sniping them but on tournament streams, PlayhemTV etc...).
Why can't you?
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I think it's slightly silly to want to use other guys streams to make yourself famous, and it sounds like control was a little irritated by this person in this case, so just don't bother iNcontroL anymore.. , but I can kind of see where harstem is coming from as well, he doesn't have streaming equipment and he wants to gain popularity. People do crazy things to advertise and I think if he's willing to work hard enough to get matched up, and can hold his own, good for him.
I'm normally in agreement with iNcontroL, but this case is a little different, saying that he is a cheater is ridiculous(controls first post in this thread came off as really defensive and aggressive to me), and i can't believe iNcontroL said that with no proof, he is just making an assumption, and that makes him come off like an asshole too me. The whole guilty until proven innocent crap is so ass backwards, and as far as I'm concerned ridiculous. In theory any pro who has a second monitor open for streaming stuff should be considered a cheater cause it's so easy for them to just open up opponent's streams. If your truly streaming for fun and to connect with fans, then ignore these stream snipers, it would give them less attention which you seem to care about.
In the end, iNcontroL makes the decision to put his stream out there without a delay.
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On November 16 2011 07:03 iNcontroL wrote:
lets break this down:
player wants more exposure so he snipes high level / famous players.
player has stream going to snipe but won't look at it cause he is an honorable guy.
Player realizes sniping is half the battle. Why not do a weeeeeeeee bit cheating as well? Winning makes you famous.
Stream sniper becomes stream cheater. All the while they swear "nah I am not like the others! I don't do it!"
I don't trust players to be admirable and not cheat when they have nothing at stake. If Sheth is found cheating he loses public image etc.. it's bad. If Hammerstanstein is found cheating nobody cares.
if you admit you stream snipe don't fault the people who don't trust you to not go the 1 step further and cheat.
totally agree - this entire discussion is kinda pointless
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How would anyone even know unless a player did it over and over again? Seems like players at the top level with similar MMR's play a lot the way it is. I didn't even know this existed since you would have to be at the very top level for it to even work. I don't consider it cheating.
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On November 16 2011 08:03 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 07:54 Uncultured wrote:
Calling someone a cheater when you have no evidence they cheated, and basing that judgement solely on past experience of a few bad people doing so... Is incredibly ignorant. People like Incontrol need to have the professionalism to realize that what they say can carry a lot of weight, and possibly end someones career for no reason at all.
Calling every stream-sniper a stream-cheater is ridiculously silly. I love it when people call into question "professionalism" I am a professional. I stream for money and to extend my social-reach. When someone spams my game with their twitter, says "sup guys" to my stream and then complains when I call them a "stream cheater" I have no regrets. if that makes me unprofessional so be it.
In other words, 'Yeah I can call anybody a cheater I want and with no proof provided they send me an in-game message or talk in my chat! That's just who I am! Why should I care about doing the right or wrong thing?!'
I am honestly blown away by the fact that accusing somebody of cheating withut proof is being accepted by everybody just because InControl all of a sudden says its OK. It is so hilarious how every thread like this has every commenter agreeing with the OP but the instant a famous SC2 players disagrees, an epic flood of posts come in to defend them.
You guys are defending the act of accusing others of cheating without ANY proof. This is WRONG and BAD for the community.
It is too bad that you can't even admit that maybe calling somebody a stream-cheater without proof is not the way to go. It is painfully clear that some of these SC2 professionals care about the community a lot more than others.
These explanations are pathetic and the way you guys eat them up is even more pathetic.
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I really can't believe this thread is still going on! But since it is I'll just add my little thought on it. Personally I think it's fine to do as long as you are not watching the stream at the same time or cheating in any way. Obviously cheating is something very tempting to do which is the problem. Also, don't do it more than once and be a douche about it.
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why does every thread turn into an argument about how people are arguing? smugness is ruining esports
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On November 16 2011 23:26 dignitas.merz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 22:07 beamingrobot wrote:On November 16 2011 21:19 Slightly wrote:
If stream snipers do not want to be grouped in with cheaters, they should not call attention to the fact that they are sniping. Glhf and get on with it. The reward you get for sniping a professional player should be the heightened competition and the satisfaction of the gameplay. Your stream sniping reward does not include showboating or advertisement, and positive publicity should not be expected when you engage in interaction with the stream.
Emphasis mine. But he/she puts it in the best way, I don't see a point in OP creating such a thread. Agreed. Also I'm pretty disturbed by the fact that you stream snipe to get in free advertisement, bragging rights and publicity. You realize that's basically leeching of the said streamer, who has done none of the above to get viewers interested in watching his stream. These are people putting themselves out there, interacting with the community, sharing their strategies etc. because they are trying to make their living off this. The downsides of this is that you are exposing yourself even more to your competitiors i.e they get a better grasp of how you think, what strategies you like, your tendencies etc. To have "unknowns" trying to jump in and abuse this by using another players stream as a medium to put themselves out there is wrong in my book. There are of course nothing that makes this legally wrong, but morally I'd say its questionable. Arguing it's hard enough for unknown players to get publicity or/and that you don't have a good enough computer doesn't really justify it seeing how all of these players started from scratch, and I can bet you that they didn't rise to fame by stream sniping.
good point it's so ez to watch a stream for 3hours and figure out how to beat a player by abusing weaknesses or playing the better build cus u know his "standard build"
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Hrmm, I don't view stream sniping as much of an issue unless you are abusing it doing it over and over to the same person. But once, really I could care less. On the other hand, players who 'block' you should no longer face you on the ladder. But ban spots are so limited it's useless from my understanding. =(
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Sounds like the OP only posted this thead for attention.....
@ OP, you know why you will never be a Pro. Because you are too worried about other people instead of trying to focus on YOURSELF and your OWN game. If by chance becoming a successful Professional is one of your goals, the stream sniping has gotta stop. Your only creating more hurdles for yourself and quickly burning those bridges.
It's common sense really.
And if you aren't even interested in becoming a successfull professional, your obviously only stream sniping to piss of other players. In this case, people shouldn't even bother giving you the time of day. I know there is no room for people who provoke negativity in my life.
If any Pro streamers are reading this, if you see this guy stream sniping you.... don't even mention it or even his name. He dosen't even deserve any attention whatsoever.
EDIT: A little mod that blanks out the opposing player name on loading screen and in-game chat would be nice.
I also like to add. There are 3 parties in this dilemma;
1. The Streamer who is giving back to the community helping others learn. Granted, yes they get money for it... but keep in mind they are potentially helping thousands of players at once!
2. The viewers who is learning from streams and get to watch and support their favourite player.
3. The wanker who is stream sniping. Wasting the streamers and viewers time. Those arguing that "you can't prove he is cheating"..... well you can't prove that he isn't cheating. You can't ignore the fact if they are stream sniping, theres a very good chance they are stream cheating as well. Regardless of what people like the OP say to try and back up their idiot antics.
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If you're a well known player, and you stream your ladder games (who cares about ladder rank anyway, if you're truly a pro, it doesn't mean dick) and put them on a public forum for all to see in real time, every single person you are matched up against could be a "potential cheater" by the logic of the guy that posted above me and others. If your handle was IM.Mvp or something and you had a live stream in grandmasters on a popular site, logic dictates that pretty much everyone you get matched up against will recognize your name, most of them will know this site, and a lot of them will know that you stream. So get over it. Anyone you play against could be watching your stream. If I got matched vs. you, I could have your stream up on a laptop or mobile device pretty quickly without affecting my play, so if you are going to live stream, you have to deal with that reality, and you pretty much lose your license to ever accuse someone of stream-cheating.
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On November 17 2011 13:49 LF9 wrote:
If you're a well known player, and you stream your ladder games (who cares about ladder rank anyway, if you're truly a pro, it doesn't mean dick) and put them on a public forum for all to see in real time, every single person you are matched up against could be a "potential cheater" by the logic of the guy that posted above me and others. If your handle was IM.Mvp or something and you had a live stream in grandmasters on a popular site, logic dictates that pretty much everyone you get matched up against will recognize your name, most of them will know this site, and a lot of them will know that you stream. So get over it. Anyone you play against could be watching your stream. If I got matched vs. you, I could have your stream up on a laptop or mobile device pretty quickly without affecting my play, so if you are going to live stream, you have to deal with that reality, and you pretty much lose your license to ever accuse someone of stream-cheating.
I'm pretty sure most Pro players are "over it" and know they will have to deal with this. It's just very sad for these players who do stream snipe and feel it neccesary to come on the forums and start up a QQ thread to gain more attention. I couldn't give a shit about people who just want to waste everyones time.
Yeah, stream cheating/sniping will never stop unless the person stops streaming. It's just sad the minority want to take advantage of this and screw it up for the majority. It's very selfish.
The point I think your missing here LF9, is that if the player is "going out of their way" to stream snipe you, it very much also strongly suggests that he is also stream cheating. You can't deny that. Yeah of course, there will be some players who might just stream snipe and thats it, but if you don't want to be labelled a stream cheater.... don't stream snipe. It's common sense really. Don't come on a forum and start up a QQ thread about it.
What responses did the OP expect to get out of this thread;
"Yeah it's ok to stream snipe man, we know your not cheating." huurrp duurrp...
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I recall you asking Sheth multiple times for Sheth and he asked you to gain 100 IQ by playing chess and trying a crossword. I laughed so hard.
Stream sniping's alright, but turn the stream off right after so you're not cheating, that way you're just playing better players. Seems fine to me. Cheating on the other hand is bad, but most streamers can beat the cheaters anyway.
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On November 17 2011 12:12 desRow wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 23:26 dignitas.merz wrote:On November 16 2011 22:07 beamingrobot wrote:On November 16 2011 21:19 Slightly wrote:
If stream snipers do not want to be grouped in with cheaters, they should not call attention to the fact that they are sniping. Glhf and get on with it. The reward you get for sniping a professional player should be the heightened competition and the satisfaction of the gameplay. Your stream sniping reward does not include showboating or advertisement, and positive publicity should not be expected when you engage in interaction with the stream.
Emphasis mine. But he/she puts it in the best way, I don't see a point in OP creating such a thread. Agreed. Also I'm pretty disturbed by the fact that you stream snipe to get in free advertisement, bragging rights and publicity. You realize that's basically leeching of the said streamer, who has done none of the above to get viewers interested in watching his stream. These are people putting themselves out there, interacting with the community, sharing their strategies etc. because they are trying to make their living off this. The downsides of this is that you are exposing yourself even more to your competitiors i.e they get a better grasp of how you think, what strategies you like, your tendencies etc. To have "unknowns" trying to jump in and abuse this by using another players stream as a medium to put themselves out there is wrong in my book. There are of course nothing that makes this legally wrong, but morally I'd say its questionable. Arguing it's hard enough for unknown players to get publicity or/and that you don't have a good enough computer doesn't really justify it seeing how all of these players started from scratch, and I can bet you that they didn't rise to fame by stream sniping. good point it's so ez to watch a stream for 3hours and figure out how to beat a player by abusing weaknesses or playing the better build cus u know his "standard build"
Wouldn't that make for better practice? :p
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I don't think there's anything wrong with sniping, as long as you don't do it 3 or 4 or more times in a row. Obviously there is a problem with cheating. InControl was outta line, but what else is new?
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So, people are getting mad because iNcontrol called this stream sniper out and said he was stream cheating as well, good! People who are crying because someone got called a stream cheater for stream sniping, LOLOLOLOL...Well, you can see in the OP how many people actually supports this guy and people like him who are nothing but trash in the community. The stupidity on TL forums is hilarious.
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