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On November 16 2011 08:06 TheChostoProject wrote:
Don't want to get stream sniped/cheated? Don't stream.
Don't want to get your robbed?? Don't leave your wallet alone in the middle of the street full of cash in a bad neighborhood for 5 days.
^ thanks.
If he's cheating/streamsniping on 1 game out of 20, so what ? Do you lose money ? No. If he's attention whoring, so what ? It's human and natural. But you can't call him out without any proof. Watch the replay before calling him a fucking cheater. Also Nerchio did streamsnipe Stephano a few times, guess what ? It was all in good fun.
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On November 16 2011 08:08 Fym wrote:
Stream sniping is the same as cheating. This is because you are cheating the system which is supposed to select opponents at random for the other player, by forcing them to play you. This whole thread is a joke.
Hi Fym,
If you still feel like stream sniping is the same as cheating , than I think u missed the point of this thread. I tried to explain that there is a difference.
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People who conflate stream sniping and cheating want to avoid the unpleasant feeling of losing to someone who has already shown they were itching for a game. This way, when the replay of them losing inevitably spreads, they can dismiss it without too much mental anguish.
It's sort of like when people explain away all their ladder losses with the phrase "it's only ladder." Until the foreign Starcraft 2 scene develops into something like the Korean Broodwar scene where there are massive teams with huge stables of practice partners (30+) this statement will remain nonsense. But I guess I'm walking away from the topic of this thread.
I don't judge progamers particularly harshly for any of this. Starcraft 2 is a game where it's easy to lose, and getting crushed by a casual player isn't easy to process when you devote your life to the game. Especially when you're in the role of progamer and your opponent is in the role of fan or anti-fan (he does watch your stream after all).
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On November 16 2011 08:06 TheChostoProject wrote:
Don't want to get stream sniped/cheated? Don't stream.
Don't want to get your robbed?? Don't leave your wallet alone in the middle of the street full of cash in a bad neighborhood for 5 days.
Your two statements are not relevant to eachother. I think you meant to say:
Don't want to get stream sniped/cheated? Don't stream.
Don't want to get your robbed?? Don't earn any money.
That won't be acceptable will it?
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On November 16 2011 08:07 Harstem wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 08:03 iNcontroL wrote:On November 16 2011 07:54 Uncultured wrote:
Calling someone a cheater when you have no evidence they cheated, and basing that judgement solely on past experience of a few bad people doing so... Is incredibly ignorant. People like Incontrol need to have the professionalism to realize that what they say can carry a lot of weight, and possibly end someones career for no reason at all.
Calling every stream-sniper a stream-cheater is ridiculously silly. I love it when people call into question "professionalism" I am a professional. I stream for money and to extend my social-reach. When someone spams my game with their twitter, says "sup guys" to my stream and then complains when I call them a "stream cheater" I have no regrets. if that makes me unprofessional so be it. Hi iNcontroL, Even though we do not agree with each other on this topic I would like you to think about the impact on someone's "carreer" u have as a pretty well known figure in the community. For the telling my twitter I apoligize, that isn't what i normally do and I will not do it again in the future. For the saying sup guys, I see nothing wrong with that.
if you starting your "career" by stream sniping people, your career will likely fail. name one person who has made a career by annoying better players.
most people hate stream snipers because they think they are stream cheaters. you are only hurting yourself by stream sniping. i don't think there is anything wrong with what you are doing (assuming you arent cheating), but you are only hurting your so called goal of becoming a pro-gamer, not helping it.
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Kevin, don't listen to all the haters, just keep playing the way you want. Most of the hate is probably comming from people who would like to snipe themselfs, but aren't good enough to get matched up against the higher tier players  .
As far as I see it, the way you're snipping isn't bad at all (providing you really do aim for the 1 time, serious game, encounter ofcourse :D, anything else would just be anoying and should indeed be shunned). And just out of curiosity, are you streaming? If so, where?
Finaly, for all clarity, as far as I'm concerned sniping means timing your gamesearch to match another players search and nothing else, any other activity would be cheating (i.e. keep stream sound and or video playing for example)
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On November 16 2011 08:01 dr.entropy wrote:
Or, Blizzard and Jtv/Twitch/Whoever could collaborate on something called "Registered Streams". If a pro player uses a Registered Stream, Blizzard sends the IP address of their opponent to their registered streaming provider. That provider agrees to black out the stream for the opponent's IP for the duration of the game.
Wow, that's a whole lot of engineering for a problem that affects a very small number of people (even among TwitchTV streamers.)
Regardless, it seems to me that popular streamers generally prefer not to be stream sniped, so while doing so may not have the ethical implications of stream cheating for hidden in-game info, I'd definitely call it rude, and you shouldn't be surprised to have a negative reaction from them.
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On November 16 2011 08:11 Erasme wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 08:06 TheChostoProject wrote:
Don't want to get stream sniped/cheated? Don't stream.
Don't want to get your robbed?? Don't leave your wallet alone in the middle of the street full of cash in a bad neighborhood for 5 days.
^ thanks. If he's cheating/streamsniping on 1 game out of 20, so what ? Do you lose money ? No. If he's attention whoring, so what ? It's human and natural. But you can't call him out without any proof. Watch the replay before calling him a fucking cheater. Also Nerchio did streamsnipe Stephano a few times, guess what ? It was all in good fun.
Sorry why cant you do this? is it ..... possibly unethical? is it because the sniper doesnt like it? why does that sound familiar.
It should be up to the streamer if its all in good fun, most people wouldnt get mad at a friend.
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On November 16 2011 08:03 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 07:54 Uncultured wrote:
Calling someone a cheater when you have no evidence they cheated, and basing that judgement solely on past experience of a few bad people doing so... Is incredibly ignorant. People like Incontrol need to have the professionalism to realize that what they say can carry a lot of weight, and possibly end someones career for no reason at all.
Calling every stream-sniper a stream-cheater is ridiculously silly. I love it when people call into question "professionalism" I am a professional. I stream for money and to extend my social-reach. When someone spams my game with their twitter, says "sup guys" to my stream and then complains when I call them a "stream cheater" I have no regrets. if that makes me unprofessional so be it.
You're actually right. It has nothing to do with professionalism and everything to do with courtesy. I used the wrong word there. You should have the courtesy to know that what you say can do damage to someone who is doing no wrong. Someone who is likely a fan of you, as I am.
Now... If the person is spamming your chat with their twitter, that actually is actually something bad. But it's something completely unrelated to cheating. You should address them for the things they do wrong, not jump to conclusions and tell everyone that they're doing something against the very spirit and nature of the game.
Also, don't take this as me jumping down your throat, I actually have no idea what went on in that game. For all I know all you said was "He's probably cheating, because he's stream sniping" in the game, and that isn't an accusation that someone should really even worry about. It's the idea, from what you said earlier in the thread, that everyone who stream snipes is undoubtedly going to make the jump to stream cheater that I take issue with.
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Somehow I feel this thread isn't really about stream sniping anymore, but about Harstem trying to get an "apology" out of incontrol.
At Harstem: I can't shake the feeling this thread is more about you getting recognition and "clearing" your name, than about discussing whether or not stream sniping is ok, or not.
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While inc probably shouldnt call you a 100% cheater without proof, maybe you can have som understanding for his side. He sometimes streams, and when he does, he often get matched with snipers. Many of these cheat. There is no way whatsoever to prove if they are cheating or not, yet he knows that a big fraction does.
Ofc inc will feel frustrated, as he wants to show games to his fans, but is annoyed by the stream cheaters. I can perfectly well understand that it is not so easy for him to always go "well, I have no solid proof that this guy doesnt cheat, so I wont be annoyed at him". When he encounters another stream sniper, and thus probably a cheater, he will get annoyed and things like that can slip.
So when you snipe, realise that you mix yourself in with a group of cheaters, and there is no way for anyone to tell if you are cheating or not. I dont think stream sniping is helping the streamer much, actually I just think it blocks him from potentially getting matched with someone really good (snipers are often a bit below the level of the streamer), thus actually making the stream less enjoyable to watch.
So in the end I have no sympathy for you. I have no idea if you cheat or not, and you will never be able to prove either, but even assuming you are not cheating, you are still harming the stream (by blocking him from better opponents, by advertising yourself, and by putting the streamer in a bad mood for facing another sniper/cheater). Why? attention.
If you want attention, (maybe even positive attention, who knows!) then write a guide in the strategy section with your favourite build,exlplaining all its ins and outs, and attach a replay pack. I assume you are high master (or GM) if you get matched with inc, so you should be able to do that in a way that help a lot of people. gl.
(edit: typo)
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I personally think stream sniping shouldn't happen. Your passing blizzards system of matchmaking the normal way. Que up when you want to play. If you want to play your favorite player/streamer do it like everyone else and just que up when you want to play.
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On November 16 2011 08:10 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 08:08 EmerTehFreek wrote:On November 16 2011 08:03 iNcontroL wrote:On November 16 2011 07:54 Uncultured wrote:
Calling someone a cheater when you have no evidence they cheated, and basing that judgement solely on past experience of a few bad people doing so... Is incredibly ignorant. People like Incontrol need to have the professionalism to realize that what they say can carry a lot of weight, and possibly end someones career for no reason at all.
Calling every stream-sniper a stream-cheater is ridiculously silly. I love it when people call into question "professionalism" I am a professional. I stream for money and to extend my social-reach. When someone spams my game with their twitter, says "sup guys" to my stream and then complains when I call them a "stream cheater" I have no regrets. if that makes me unprofessional so be it. It could be the fact that they know you are streaming and trying to promote themselves. There is no proof there that they are watching it. Yup. Read my previous posts for why I don't care about "evidence" or whatever. It isn't like I am having this man hung.. he wants to spam and stream snipe famous players fine, he will look like a cheater. If he doesn't cheat he probably shouldn't announce he is stream sniping and then talk to my stream.
I thought America was all about innocent until proven guilty.
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Seems pretty easy to understand if you ask me. I do however agree somewhat with IncontroL's point that while yes giving everyone the benefit of the doubt is a noble thing to do, it can also be quite ignorant. In this case, from IncontroL's pov, the OP seems to really want to get his name out there by spamming his twitter account etc. I won't say knowing that someone wants to get more recognized automatically puts them in the boat of eventually taking that second step into cheating but I will say some of you may be a little too nice.
Unfortunately all cases are different; you have you people who stream cheat and don't care who knows (combatex, deezer), your people who stream cheat and haven't been caught, the people who stream snipe and never let it be known and finally the people who stream snipe and make it public, usually to defend allegations that they are also cheating (OP).
My point is yes there are people who snipe but do not continue to watch the stream of the player they are sniping while playing and yes there are people who snipe and then eventually turn that into cheating. To say that someone like IncontroL should just give people the benefit of the doubt however, may seem silly to some but being suspicious does have good reason, in my opinion.
The whole situation is a huge grey area if you ask me and just comes down to a matter of what each person has gone through. While some of you wouldn't really think much about someone loitering outside your apartment complex late at night, you can't really blame some others who may have been robbed by someone doing the exact same thing for being more suspicious.
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On November 16 2011 08:14 JEcho wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 08:11 Erasme wrote:On November 16 2011 08:06 TheChostoProject wrote:
Don't want to get stream sniped/cheated? Don't stream.
Don't want to get your robbed?? Don't leave your wallet alone in the middle of the street full of cash in a bad neighborhood for 5 days.
^ thanks. If he's cheating/streamsniping on 1 game out of 20, so what ? Do you lose money ? No. If he's attention whoring, so what ? It's human and natural. But you can't call him out without any proof. Watch the replay before calling him a fucking cheater. Also Nerchio did streamsnipe Stephano a few times, guess what ? It was all in good fun. Sorry why cant you do this? is it ..... possibly unethical? is it because the sniper doesnt like it? why does that sound familiar. It should be up to the streamer if its all in good fun, most people wouldnt get mad at a friend.
Because you look stupid and mad.
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On November 16 2011 08:16 EmerTehFreek wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 08:10 iNcontroL wrote:On November 16 2011 08:08 EmerTehFreek wrote:On November 16 2011 08:03 iNcontroL wrote:On November 16 2011 07:54 Uncultured wrote:
Calling someone a cheater when you have no evidence they cheated, and basing that judgement solely on past experience of a few bad people doing so... Is incredibly ignorant. People like Incontrol need to have the professionalism to realize that what they say can carry a lot of weight, and possibly end someones career for no reason at all.
Calling every stream-sniper a stream-cheater is ridiculously silly. I love it when people call into question "professionalism" I am a professional. I stream for money and to extend my social-reach. When someone spams my game with their twitter, says "sup guys" to my stream and then complains when I call them a "stream cheater" I have no regrets. if that makes me unprofessional so be it. It could be the fact that they know you are streaming and trying to promote themselves. There is no proof there that they are watching it. Yup. Read my previous posts for why I don't care about "evidence" or whatever. It isn't like I am having this man hung.. he wants to spam and stream snipe famous players fine, he will look like a cheater. If he doesn't cheat he probably shouldn't announce he is stream sniping and then talk to my stream. I thought America was all about innocent until proven guilty.
This is the internet not america.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
cascade pretty much nailed it.
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On November 16 2011 08:12 Harstem wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 08:08 Fym wrote:
Stream sniping is the same as cheating. This is because you are cheating the system which is supposed to select opponents at random for the other player, by forcing them to play you. This whole thread is a joke. Hi Fym, If you still feel like stream sniping is the same as cheating , than I think u missed the point of this thread. I tried to explain that there is a difference.
It looks like you're being pretty good about addressing people's post. But you still haven't answered my post
Why do you think you deserve to get matched against these players more than other people on the ladder?
What not just ask for custom games if you want to play these guys?
If you want to be recognized why don't you prioritize your time accordingly instead of taking the easy way out that many people consider cheating?
As I mentioned in my previous post this selfish behavior is bad for the community. If people want pro players to stream and if the community wants to make it possible for players to earn a living by streaming then stream sniping and cheating should not be tolerated.
Would you rather that no pros stream to avoid getting sniped or being able to watch their streams?
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no1 cares about 'stream sniping' aslong as u don't play the same guy 10 times in a row, that would just make you a Stalker (no not the Protoss version).
Stream cheating on the other hand is really disgusting, it's not illegal but if sum1 gets catched doing it they should be banned from playing tournaments.
edit:
Read some other posts and I agree with the following.
If u stream snipe a will be associated with stream cheaters because most stream snipers are known for also cheating.
If u want to stream snipe a pro player just do it once and then move on, don't keep queing into the same guy or people won't know the difference anymore and just call u a cheater.
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Stream sniping is unethical. There is no informed consent. If you asked "pro gamer joe" for some practice games and he said yes, you both agree to play. The important thing here is, you asked, and he agreed. If you're stream sniping someone, it's essentially stalking. You agree to play practice games with him, but he doesn't. You might be ruining his day if he wants to play all 3 matchups or something.
Any benefit you get, such as being on a famous guy's stream, doesn't change the fact that you are abusing things to get your way. You might as well be watching his stream and cheating while you're at it. It's just rude. If it was common practice, streaming would be less common. Stream sniping is a parasitic practice on the community.
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EPT
