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On November 16 2011 03:02 eleaf wrote:
I want to give some further discussion about this new revealed promotion system.
It's not a new system.
It's just the average amount of points people should have when their MMR hits the cutoff point that only Blizzard knows about.
Let's say the MMR cutoff to go from plat to diamond is 500 MMR. Blizzard has data that shows what the average point score is for people with 500+ MMR, then adjust it for season length and bonus pool, and give you a rough number. That's why they're different point scores in different regions.
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At the end of the day, it does not matter. Think about how to improve your mechanics, decision making , opening optimizing or strategic thinking and not necessarily play to win, but to get better. As an eventual result you will advance up the ladder, and imo faster and higher than if you only play to win.
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Going to be like 150 points short of GM if I maintain a 50% winrate, ugh
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Damn, I still need more than 500 points to make it into masters. Let's see, I guess you get around 5 points per game with 50% winrate ? 100 games in 3 weeks. Should be doable if I take vacation 
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Isn't 'how to earn a league promotion' just to be better than everyone in your league?
Not to poopoo on the OP or anything but you can't achieve those points unless you have the skill to anyway, hence making it irrelevant whether or not you know how many points you need.
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On November 16 2011 02:44 optical630 wrote:
who wouldda thought you had to PLAY GAMES to get promoted?
Yeah what happend to the good old days when you won your placements and played a few games of 3rax all in and could sit on diamond for ages?
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On November 16 2011 17:59 Canas wrote:
Going to be like 150 points short of GM if I maintain a 50% winrate, ugh
On November 16 2011 19:12 BGrael wrote:Damn, I still need more than 500 points to make it into masters. Let's see, I guess you get around 5 points per game with 50% winrate ? 100 games in 3 weeks. Should be doable if I take vacation
If you've got a 50% win rate then you won't get promoted because you're already at the level you should be at. The whole point of the way Blizzard has calculated this is to put a rough figure on how many points you will have if you tend towards an increasing MMR. The points themselves don't really matter except as an indication that you're winning more than you lose and thus your MMR is increasing.
The key point is that in order to get these kind of points you need to be winning more than you lose. To quote that article:
Q: How do I get my ladder points that high?
A: The only way to gain these points is to win more than you lose for a sustained period. For example, if you look at your match history and have won at least 12 of your last 20 games, you’re on the right track. Keep it up!
Therefore with a 50% win rate you will not get this level of points, hence your MMR won't increase and you won't get promoted.
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I'm glad that they finally released how to advance in ladders rather then making us all guess. Looks like I have a lot of work to do before I hit diamond. 
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Promotions based on point totals seems silly at best, no idea why the hidden MMR wouldn't be the only factor instead. Getting to X ladder points is a lot more about grinding then actual skill.
Do you need to win more then you lose sure, but based on that post having 900 points in a diamond league to go to masters would seem to have more emphasis then if someone is at 500 points with a higher win % but not that 900 point mark. I'm sure you can / do get promoted if you win some silly % of your games...but for everyone else having an arbitrary point mark seems like a bad system.
EX. Player A and Player B...Both players are trying to go from diamond to masters this season. Player A and B are both college students. If player A plays player B player A wins 65% of the time.
Player A works and goes to school regularly and normally only has enough time to play to get around 650 points per season. Despite this fact player A wins about 58% of their ladder games games.
Player B doesn't work, and skips classes and homework a lot. Player B plays a ton and gets to around 950 points this season. Player B however only wins about 52% of their ladder games.
Seasons end comes and Player B gets promoted and Player A does not....now tell me how that is good :/
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Damn that number is high, Blizzard took a pretty safe bet there. I like that they did this, promotion is still based around MMR, and people with that number of points are without doubt close to that MMR.
I got 362 points and low bonus pool (+-30), GM would be 1340 points for EU. Conclusion, I will never reach GM .
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On November 17 2011 00:03 Nerski wrote:
Promotions based on point totals seems silly at best, no idea why the hidden MMR wouldn't be the only factor instead. Getting to X ladder points is a lot more about grinding then actual skill.
It is the only factor. This is not a change in how promotions work, it's simply a guide to what your points will generally be at once your MMR gets high enough for a promotion.
I repeat, nothing has changed.
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Why are people having such an issue understanding this?
Since the bonus points accrue at a fixed rate why is it hard to understand how Blizzard can come up with the point total for league promotion?
There is a relation between MMR & Ladder Points minus Bonus Points.
You gain points or lose points based on winning and losing… your MMR also either goes up or down based on winning and losing…
So parse out the bonus points and account for “favored” points.. and you can come to your point relation to MMR.
I’d assume they’re giving this target for the end of the season because I’d bet the “stabilizing” factor gets reset at the end of a season.
Meaning if you go on a 25 game winning streak before the season ends and don’t get promoted it’s because it hasn’t stabilized… but if a new season starts you will get placed in the appropriate rank based on your MMR because the history starts over… that’s a pure guess on my part though
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On November 17 2011 00:03 Nerski wrote:
Promotions based on point totals seems silly at best, no idea why the hidden MMR wouldn't be the only factor instead. Getting to X ladder points is a lot more about grinding then actual skill.
Do you need to win more then you lose sure, but based on that post having 900 points in a diamond league to go to masters would seem to have more emphasis then if someone is at 500 points with a higher win % but not that 900 point mark. I'm sure you can / do get promoted if you win some silly % of your games...but for everyone else having an arbitrary point mark seems like a bad system.
EX. Player A and Player B...Both players are trying to go from diamond to masters this season. Player A and B are both college students. If player A plays player B player A wins 65% of the time.
Player A works and goes to school regularly and normally only has enough time to play to get around 650 points per season. Despite this fact player A wins about 58% of their ladder games games.
Player B doesn't work, and skips classes and homework a lot. Player B plays a ton and gets to around 950 points this season. Player B however only wins about 52% of their ladder games.
Seasons end comes and Player B gets promoted and Player A does not....now tell me how that is good :/
True. but I prefer this method. I mean, look at last season's GMs, where many of them only had 10 games from maintaining the previous season's MMR. Or, some of these players only had 20 games with 17-3 records. Given that GM is about grinding games and not having your bonus pool go over a certain amount, doesn't it make sense to set this expectation right at league promotion?
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On November 17 2011 00:03 Nerski wrote:
Promotions based on point totals seems silly at best, no idea why the hidden MMR wouldn't be the only factor instead. Getting to X ladder points is a lot more about grinding then actual skill.
Do you need to win more then you lose sure, but based on that post having 900 points in a diamond league to go to masters would seem to have more emphasis then if someone is at 500 points with a higher win % but not that 900 point mark. I'm sure you can / do get promoted if you win some silly % of your games...but for everyone else having an arbitrary point mark seems like a bad system.
EX. Player A and Player B...Both players are trying to go from diamond to masters this season. Player A and B are both college students. If player A plays player B player A wins 65% of the time.
Player A works and goes to school regularly and normally only has enough time to play to get around 650 points per season. Despite this fact player A wins about 58% of their ladder games games.
Player B doesn't work, and skips classes and homework a lot. Player B plays a ton and gets to around 950 points this season. Player B however only wins about 52% of their ladder games.
Seasons end comes and Player B gets promoted and Player A does not....now tell me how that is good :/
Yeah that sucks =/. Especially since I'm Player A .. xD
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United States12244 Posts
On November 17 2011 00:03 Nerski wrote:
Promotions based on point totals seems silly at best, no idea why the hidden MMR wouldn't be the only factor instead. Getting to X ladder points is a lot more about grinding then actual skill.
Do you need to win more then you lose sure, but based on that post having 900 points in a diamond league to go to masters would seem to have more emphasis then if someone is at 500 points with a higher win % but not that 900 point mark. I'm sure you can / do get promoted if you win some silly % of your games...but for everyone else having an arbitrary point mark seems like a bad system.
EX. Player A and Player B...Both players are trying to go from diamond to masters this season. Player A and B are both college students. If player A plays player B player A wins 65% of the time.
Player A works and goes to school regularly and normally only has enough time to play to get around 650 points per season. Despite this fact player A wins about 58% of their ladder games games.
Player B doesn't work, and skips classes and homework a lot. Player B plays a ton and gets to around 950 points this season. Player B however only wins about 52% of their ladder games.
Seasons end comes and Player B gets promoted and Player A does not....now tell me how that is good :/
You're misinterpreting or not reading thoroughly enough. These correspond to maximum values -- that is, the point (but also MMR) difference between the lowest division tier of one league and the lowest division tier of the next-highest league.
- If you're in a league with 3 tiers and you happen to be in the highest tier, you will only need to earn 1/3 of the necessary points listed at most.
- If your win ratio is very high, then your MMR is rising faster than your points and a promotion will happen more quickly.
- These values include bonus pool over the entire season, you need to take into account the amount of adjusted points which is what really matters.
Skill dictates promotion eligibility and it always has. Nothing changed internally as a result of these tables being published.
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This will be helpful for the people on the forums wondering why they're top of their Bronze division for ages and haven't gone to silver. The requires points/MMR for Bronze->Silver is just really really high compared to the other league gaps.
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On November 17 2011 00:03 Nerski wrote:
Promotions based on point totals seems silly at best, no idea why the hidden MMR wouldn't be the only factor instead. Getting to X ladder points is a lot more about grinding then actual skill.
Promotion is based on the hidden MMR only. What they've done is provided the end-of-season point totals that correspond to those MMRs for people in the lowest division tier who have used 100% of their bonus points.
The non-bonus-point part of a player's score tracks MMR, so it's possible for Blizzard to translate back and forth. In this table, they've done that.
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yay time to get promoted lol....
playing games is key. who woulda thought!
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On November 17 2011 02:21 Excalibur_Z wrote:
- If your win ratio is very high, then your MMR is rising faster than your points and a promotion will happen more quickly.
A little off-topic, but I found this comment interesting.
What I personally have noticed is that when I have the occasional several-game losing streak, after a while my opponents will be listed as "slightly favored." This suggests to me that my point score is dropping faster than my MMR. Wouldn't a winning streak result in points rising faster than MMR?
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EPT
