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On November 18 2011 03:36 Nerski wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 02:21 Excalibur_Z wrote:On November 17 2011 00:03 Nerski wrote:
Promotions based on point totals seems silly at best, no idea why the hidden MMR wouldn't be the only factor instead. Getting to X ladder points is a lot more about grinding then actual skill.
Do you need to win more then you lose sure, but based on that post having 900 points in a diamond league to go to masters would seem to have more emphasis then if someone is at 500 points with a higher win % but not that 900 point mark. I'm sure you can / do get promoted if you win some silly % of your games...but for everyone else having an arbitrary point mark seems like a bad system.
EX. Player A and Player B...Both players are trying to go from diamond to masters this season. Player A and B are both college students. If player A plays player B player A wins 65% of the time.
Player A works and goes to school regularly and normally only has enough time to play to get around 650 points per season. Despite this fact player A wins about 58% of their ladder games games.
Player B doesn't work, and skips classes and homework a lot. Player B plays a ton and gets to around 950 points this season. Player B however only wins about 52% of their ladder games.
Seasons end comes and Player B gets promoted and Player A does not....now tell me how that is good :/
You're misinterpreting or not reading thoroughly enough. These correspond to maximum values -- that is, the point (but also MMR) difference between the lowest division tier of one league and the lowest division tier of the next-highest league. - If you're in a league with 3 tiers and you happen to be in the highest tier, you will only need to earn 1/3 of the necessary points listed at most. - If your win ratio is very high, then your MMR is rising faster than your points and a promotion will happen more quickly. - These values include bonus pool over the entire season, you need to take into account the amount of adjusted points which is what really matters. Skill dictates promotion eligibility and it always has. Nothing changed internally as a result of these tables being published. After taking the time to read through blizzards post it's apparent the points are only a relative guideline. So your right nothing has changed, I do think blizzard might be opening themselves up to a can of worms though if by seasons end there are players at or past point thresholds that don't get promoted and get upset because they just grind a lot and don't actually win a lot.
Actually I dont think this will happen, for me example my promotion took suprising lot of wins, my last 25 games have been against Diamonds and I went 20-5 and just now got the promotion about on right spot what this grid showed
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WTF! So to get promoted one has to win more than they loose!!! Who would have thought?
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On November 18 2011 03:43 NadaSound wrote:
WTF! So to get promoted one has to win more than they loose!!! Who would have thought?
That's what Blizzard has been saying all along, but everyone's been saying "Waaaa I deserve a promotion, something's wrong!" This is a response to that.
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I think given the time frame remaining in the ladder season, you would probably need to win quite a few games to achieve that point count for promotion so it's purely an estimate.. Perhaps blizzard has overestimated the amount so the chances of you reaching the threshold and not being promoted is really low.
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On November 18 2011 05:09 Lysenko wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2011 03:43 NadaSound wrote:
WTF! So to get promoted one has to win more than they loose!!! Who would have thought?
That's what Blizzard has been saying all along, but everyone's been saying "Waaaa I deserve a promotion, something's wrong!" This is a response to that.
Their nerve, right?
Does anyone know if this changes as each season pass? I am pretty sure it does, since my points in the different seasons have moved a bit (to the lower side) throughout the seasons even though my winning percentage or number of victories haven´t changed too much.
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On November 18 2011 05:38 TiTanIum_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2011 05:09 Lysenko wrote:On November 18 2011 03:43 NadaSound wrote:
WTF! So to get promoted one has to win more than they loose!!! Who would have thought?
That's what Blizzard has been saying all along, but everyone's been saying "Waaaa I deserve a promotion, something's wrong!" This is a response to that. Their nerve, right? Does anyone know if this changes as each season pass? I am pretty sure it does, since my points in the different seasons have moved a bit (to the lower side) throughout the seasons even though my winning percentage or number of victories haven´t changed too much.
Yes, for 2 reaons:
1) Bonus points: they are useless actually, but they are there in the math, so every week that the season is delayed or just longer will increase the points necessary by 90 (for masters in 1x1). Adjusted points though would remain the same!
2) Blizzard does change the offsets slightly if they see that the desired 20/20/20/20/18/2 system isn't there for whatever reason, but it probably won't change drastically any time soon. (that's also the reason for different regions having different numbers).
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On November 18 2011 05:38 TiTanIum_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2011 05:09 Lysenko wrote:On November 18 2011 03:43 NadaSound wrote:
WTF! So to get promoted one has to win more than they loose!!! Who would have thought?
That's what Blizzard has been saying all along, but everyone's been saying "Waaaa I deserve a promotion, something's wrong!" This is a response to that. Their nerve, right? Does anyone know if this changes as each season pass? I am pretty sure it does, since my points in the different seasons have moved a bit (to the lower side) throughout the seasons even though my winning percentage or number of victories haven´t changed too much.
It probably has to do with the length of each season. Seasons in the past have been longer, especially the first one.
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On November 18 2011 03:42 Roynalf wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2011 03:36 Nerski wrote:On November 17 2011 02:21 Excalibur_Z wrote:On November 17 2011 00:03 Nerski wrote:
Promotions based on point totals seems silly at best, no idea why the hidden MMR wouldn't be the only factor instead. Getting to X ladder points is a lot more about grinding then actual skill.
Do you need to win more then you lose sure, but based on that post having 900 points in a diamond league to go to masters would seem to have more emphasis then if someone is at 500 points with a higher win % but not that 900 point mark. I'm sure you can / do get promoted if you win some silly % of your games...but for everyone else having an arbitrary point mark seems like a bad system.
EX. Player A and Player B...Both players are trying to go from diamond to masters this season. Player A and B are both college students. If player A plays player B player A wins 65% of the time.
Player A works and goes to school regularly and normally only has enough time to play to get around 650 points per season. Despite this fact player A wins about 58% of their ladder games games.
Player B doesn't work, and skips classes and homework a lot. Player B plays a ton and gets to around 950 points this season. Player B however only wins about 52% of their ladder games.
Seasons end comes and Player B gets promoted and Player A does not....now tell me how that is good :/
You're misinterpreting or not reading thoroughly enough. These correspond to maximum values -- that is, the point (but also MMR) difference between the lowest division tier of one league and the lowest division tier of the next-highest league. - If you're in a league with 3 tiers and you happen to be in the highest tier, you will only need to earn 1/3 of the necessary points listed at most. - If your win ratio is very high, then your MMR is rising faster than your points and a promotion will happen more quickly. - These values include bonus pool over the entire season, you need to take into account the amount of adjusted points which is what really matters. Skill dictates promotion eligibility and it always has. Nothing changed internally as a result of these tables being published. After taking the time to read through blizzards post it's apparent the points are only a relative guideline. So your right nothing has changed, I do think blizzard might be opening themselves up to a can of worms though if by seasons end there are players at or past point thresholds that don't get promoted and get upset because they just grind a lot and don't actually win a lot. Actually I dont think this will happen, for me example my promotion took suprising lot of wins, my last 25 games have been against Diamonds and I went 20-5 and just now got the promotion about on right spot what this grid showed
Man there's some people in my division with 560 points. How many points did you have when you were promoted? The whole 900 as the chart indicates or was it less because the season isn't over (and hence the bonus pool has yet to be fully distributed)?
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Sounds false >.> Was 1600 Masters last season.= and no promotion. Would have rather not known about this then find out their system is just shit right now.
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On November 18 2011 06:15 zJayy962 wrote:
Sounds false >.> Was 1600 Masters last season.= and no promotion. Would have rather not known about this then find out their system is just shit right now.
Your brand of stupid is the reason I hate people.
They are simply giving whiners finite goals to quite them down. If you want to know how well their system actually works, and how well formatted it is to only promote someone when they are ready then you can check the link below.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=195273
User was temp banned for this post.
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clearly last season was longer than this one.. so it's not unreasonable to think the point threshold would be different?
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On November 18 2011 05:42 SDream wrote:
1) Bonus points: they are useless actually, but they are there in the math, so every week that the season is delayed or just longer will increase the points necessary by 90 (for masters in 1x1). Adjusted points though would remain the same!
Bonus points serve a very useful purpose. MMRs get stale when players don't play a lot, for two reasons.
The first is that the rest of the population can increase in skill with continued practice while the player who doesn't play at best stays where they were, thus making their MMR inaccurately predict how well they'll do when they return.
The second is that inactivity often causes people to become rusty, which also makes the MMR inaccurately predict how they'll do when they next hit the "find game" button.
Bonus points ensure that players who aren't sufficiently active drop to the bottom of the division rankings rather than filling spots among the more active players that may not accurately reflect their current performance anyway, due to their MMR becoming stale, which would happen if only the "adjusted points" were used.
Edit: Remember that if everyone's absolute skill level at the game improve at the same place, such that their relative likelihood of beating each other remains the same, their MMRs wouldn't change.
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On November 18 2011 06:15 zJayy962 wrote:
Sounds false >.> Was 1600 Masters last season.= and no promotion. Would have rather not known about this then find out their system is just shit right now.
rofl are you kidding me? they explicitly state that this is not a complete guarantee. for a rare few this will not apply. read bro.
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This is the motivation I was looking for. An "almost" assured way to get promoted. This excites me I think will excite others to. Blizzard good job....didn't think I would be saying that but yeah...
Time to ladder and gain 800 ladder points then I can feel that I deserve to be promoted.
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It's nice that they show you a good way to do it and it give you a benchmark to strive for.
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To those who say my points from last season was this and this I did not get promoted:
S3 is 3 months. July 26 - October 24. In this case you'll get more points due to bonus pool.
S4 is 2 months. October 24 - December 20. Less overall points.
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isn't there an issue with this point approximation? I thought identitcal MMRs (and therefore promotions) could correspond to different points, due to specific league coefficients. Am I wrong?
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On November 18 2011 06:15 zJayy962 wrote:
Sounds false >.> Was 1600 Masters last season.= and no promotion. Would have rather not known about this then find out their system is just shit right now.
Earlier on in the thread it was worked out that you'd have needed 1760-1800 last season to be "almost" guarenteed a promotion as the season was longer so no, it does still work.
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This is stupid, if you had 900 points in diamond you'd be the #1 diamond player on the NA server right now! (trying to get promoted to ML on NA according to the chart.)
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Sweet, its nice to have a goal in terms of ladder points to get at the end of the season =). Time to double my ladder points and be a self proclaimed grandmaster.
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EPT
