EPTHow to Earn a League Promotion - Page 6
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hunts
United States2113 Posts
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AmericanUmlaut
Germany2597 Posts
On November 16 2011 05:52 Coopa826 wrote: Finally we get some specific information about that topic. in the beginning it was: Win and you get promoted Now it is: Reach XXX Points and the chances of promotion are really big. huurayy! =) It is nice that they gave us a bit more information, but this is really just a different way of presenting the same thing we already knew. The point system, ignoring bonus points, is meant to map roughly to the MMR system; the points you're awarded for wins and losses are adjusted to cause a bias in the direction of a point total corresponding to your MMR. Since the MMR thresholds are hard coded, the approximate number of points the system will be nudging you toward if your MMR is at the threshold is effectively also hard coded. Add the number of bonus points awarded per season and voila, you have your goal for the season. Given that sc2ranks has promotion information, I'd bet we could even have deduced these numbers, at least for leagues (just Diamond, right?) for which we knew the tier offsets. The only question I have is with regard to the tiers. Won't the point total corresponding to a given MMR will be different by as much as a couple hundred points depending on what tier you're in? I don't understand how the numbers can be made meaningful for all players in all tiers given that fact? And if they're not, Blizzard is going to unleash a shitstorm on itself when the system doesn't behave as advertised. I wish they'd just let us see our MMRs and tell us where the promotion thresholds are; all of these obfuscating layers of abstraction just annoy me. On November 16 2011 05:17 Excalibur_Z wrote: I wonder if it's possible, given that we know how many division tiers are in each league, to determine rough estimates of what the point offsets per division tier are? For example, we know Diamond has 7 tiers since we've proven it before, and the point requirement they've provided is 900. 900 - 365 = 535 adjusted points, 535 / 7 = ~76 per tier, correct for the confidence barrier, and the 76 reported value appears to be pretty close to the previously-established 63 value. This could mean that the confidence barrier is around 76 / 63 = 1.20x, which would mean that your MMR's moving average has to be 20% higher than the breakpoint in order to get promoted. We still need to look into this more to be sure.. If I understand how you're describing this, wouldn't that mean that the tier with the lowest point offset had to earn the largest number of points to achieve their promotion? I don't see how that would make sense; you'd effectively have to have a higher MMR to reach 535 points starting from a 0 offset than starting from 228. Have I completely misunderstood something? | ||
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Vei
United States2845 Posts
On November 16 2011 02:28 Elendoil wrote: You guys are doing it wrong: The points Blizz is talking about is not the points that you are having (at least I think). Else their statement that you have to win over 50% of the time for a long period of time wouldn't make sense. If I play 1 game every day my bonuspool is more than enough to gain me a steady income of points if I keep a 50% winrate. So I guess they are talking about other points. Also it would be stupid to need more points to get from Bronze to Silver then from Silver to Gold. you have it completely wrong, read blizzard's post. also you can't just idly use BP | ||
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Not_That
287 Posts
On November 16 2011 05:17 Excalibur_Z wrote: Okay I'm still analyzing here, but let's think this out. Season 4 began on Oct 25 and will lock on Dec 13. This means 630 bonus pool for Master, 630*0.58=365 bonus pool for lower leagues over that period. If you deduct the max bonus pool for a particular league, you're left with roughly the amount of adjusted points that will equate to a promotion. This presumably factors in the confidence buffer as well, and constitutes (mostly) the max adjusted points required to go from the bottom of one league to the bottom of the next league. That is, this chart is not counting division tiers. I wonder if it's possible, given that we know how many division tiers are in each league, to determine rough estimates of what the point offsets per division tier are? For example, we know Diamond has 7 tiers since we've proven it before, and the point requirement they've provided is 900. 900 - 365 = 535 adjusted points, 535 / 7 = ~76 per tier, correct for the confidence barrier, and the 76 reported value appears to be pretty close to the previously-established 63 value. This could mean that the confidence barrier is around 76 / 63 = 1.20x, which would mean that your MMR's moving average has to be 20% higher than the breakpoint in order to get promoted. We still need to look into this more to be sure. Also worth noting in this chart is what we've been saying for a while: Blizzard has the ability to adjust the MMR breakpoints per league and per region independently until they get closer to the expected distribution. That's why the requirements aren't uniform per game type and per region. I'm not sure why you divided 535 by 7. The way I see it: Diamond S-Rank: 0 Diamond A-Rank: +63 Diamond B-Rank: +126 Diamond C-Rank: +189 Diamond D-Rank: +252 Diamond E-Rank: +315 Diamond F-Rank: +378 By publishing that a Diamond player needs 535 adjusted points to be promoted to Master, Blizzard is probably referring to F tier Diamond players, since if they referred to a higher tier, then all the F players would overshoot 535 adjusted points and be asking themselves why they haven't been promoted yet. If anything, I would conclude from the new numbers that 535-378=157 adjusted points (this time taking tier into account) is how much a typical Diamond player needs to go above 0 in order to reach the point where he's likely to be promoted to Master. Edit: At first 157 adjusted points (taking into account bonus pool and division tier) struck me as a bit on the low side, but then I noticed something. It is known Master players are -150 points compared to Diamond S-Rank players at 0 points. 150 points is actually really close to 157. Interesting. | ||
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Jacob666
United States285 Posts
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kYem
United Kingdom412 Posts
On November 16 2011 02:56 KiF1rE wrote: s3 was the same 2 month length, so the values should still hold true... and if they truly mean near grandmaster because it works differently this stupid announcement from blizzard has actually 0 value to a competitive player asking the question, of how do i actually earn a league promotion.... besides crush GM's and still be stuck in masters? in season 3 i was getting paired with players like RSVP when they were in the top 16 range of GM. and im still masters why? Probably because you were losing 80% of the time vs them? Get close to 50% vs top 50 gm players and you will be promoted as soon as new space is available. | ||
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Animostas
United States568 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
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Lysenko
Iceland2128 Posts
On November 16 2011 06:00 SupLilSon wrote: Wait I'm confused... ;\ I'm playing masters in 2v2 about 50% of the time and Im over 500 points short of the promo to masters. And I just got promoted to masters 4v4 and had like 600 points short. So that they can offer a number that's pretty reliably going to lead to a promotion, they have to overestimate. That number includes bonus points that have not yet been awarded and also is probably tuned for the hardest divisions to get a promotion out of. | ||
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Jacob666
United States285 Posts
On November 16 2011 06:27 Animostas wrote: I feel like these numbers are totally overshooting, and that if you win that much to get near this many points, you'll be promoted before you hit the actual number. These are points to shoot for to have at the end of one season to get promoted early into the next, not how many points you need mid season to get promoted. | ||
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Lysenko
Iceland2128 Posts
On November 16 2011 06:15 AmericanUmlaut wrote: Won't the point total corresponding to a given MMR will be different by as much as a couple hundred points depending on what tier you're in? I don't understand how the numbers can be made meaningful for all players in all tiers given that fact? And if they're not, Blizzard is going to unleash a shitstorm on itself when the system doesn't behave as advertised. Sure it will vary by tier. Note that they didn't say "these are the numbers you need to be promoted," they said "if you hit these numbers you're very likely to be promoted." Those two statements are very different. | ||
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Raid
United States398 Posts
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On November 16 2011 02:56 KiF1rE wrote: s3 was the same 2 month length, so the values should still hold true... and if they truly mean near grandmaster because it works differently this stupid announcement from blizzard has actually 0 value to a competitive player asking the question, of how do i actually earn a league promotion.... besides crush GM's and still be stuck in masters? in season 3 i was getting paired with players like RSVP when they were in the top 16 range of GM. and im still masters why? It wouldn't hold true, there simply is no way, I was over 1700 points, and there were many up at 1900 if I recall at season end. | ||
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Beren
United States514 Posts
On November 16 2011 02:51 Kodak wrote: You do realize it's not talking about S3, right? that is a good point... if the season lasted longer it would be higher. This is 2 month season. Season 3 was 3 month or so. Season Four: 25 October 2011 - Present Season Three: 26 July 2011 - 24 October 2011 (locked 10 October) Season Two: 29 March 2011 - 26 July 2011 (locked 5 July) Season One: 27 July 2010 - 29 March 2011 (locked 29 Mar) | ||
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Kluey
Canada1197 Posts
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MrBitter
United States2940 Posts
Like... I can only think of one. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On November 16 2011 06:50 MrBitter wrote: I don't know if this sounds right. I was between 1400-1500 at the end of last season (EU) and I was very seldom hitting GM players. Like... I can only think of one. Different season = different ending point values.... | ||
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carloselcoco
United States2302 Posts
On November 16 2011 06:50 MrBitter wrote: I don't know if this sounds right. I was between 1400-1500 at the end of last season (EU) and I was very seldom hitting GM players. Like... I can only think of one. This table only applies to the new shorter seasons. | ||
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cosineInfinity
United States178 Posts
Let's get down to it! | ||
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Lysenko
Iceland2128 Posts
On November 16 2011 06:52 FabledIntegral wrote: Different season = different ending point values.... The season 3 vs. season 4 bonus point totals will be lower this season by at least a couple hundred points for master league. | ||
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