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On November 07 2011 16:50 karlkarlson wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 16:41 kofman wrote:On November 07 2011 16:35 Trsjnica wrote:
Pretty insane that ZvT has *always* been Terran-favored, every single month since the game's release. Yea its crazy, especially since terran has been nerfed the most out of all the races. The idea that terran players are just better might have some truth to it. this is straight up nonsense. the people with the best sense of game balance AND the most accurate statistics, (blizzard) CONTINUE to feel terran is overpowered. one day they'll fire David Kim ( who plays T ) and hire an unbiased lead balance architect...
Doesn't dayvie play random?
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On November 07 2011 16:50 karlkarlson wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 16:41 kofman wrote:On November 07 2011 16:35 Trsjnica wrote:
Pretty insane that ZvT has *always* been Terran-favored, every single month since the game's release. Yea its crazy, especially since terran has been nerfed the most out of all the races. The idea that terran players are just better might have some truth to it. this is straight up nonsense. the people with the best sense of game balance AND the most accurate statistics, (blizzard) CONTINUE to feel terran is overpowered. one day they'll fire David Kim ( who plays T ) and hire an unbiased lead balance architect...
LOL, David Kim plays random fyi, and terran has been constantly nerfed every patch. Even with the nerfs, terrans are still the strongest race. The only reason I can see why terrans are still dominating is that terrans are simply better.
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On November 07 2011 16:51 Gheed wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 16:50 karlkarlson wrote:On November 07 2011 16:41 kofman wrote:On November 07 2011 16:35 Trsjnica wrote:
Pretty insane that ZvT has *always* been Terran-favored, every single month since the game's release. Yea its crazy, especially since terran has been nerfed the most out of all the races. The idea that terran players are just better might have some truth to it. this is straight up nonsense. the people with the best sense of game balance AND the most accurate statistics, (blizzard) CONTINUE to feel terran is overpowered. one day they'll fire David Kim ( who plays T ) and hire an unbiased lead balance architect... Doesn't dayvie play random?
Yes he does, ppl just like to make up nonsense that he plays terran so they can bash blizzard
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On November 07 2011 16:13 Techno wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 16:09 Champi wrote:
so depressing to look at lol.
chin up slugga's, our time will come Pretty sure its more depressing for Terrans and Zergs. Protosses are probably like "Fuck yea! Were doing bad in Code S again so maybe well get buffed".
Don't try and act like it's just code S bro, or even just Korea- these stats are for worldwide tournaments.
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On November 07 2011 16:51 karlkarlson wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 16:50 tomatriedes wrote:On November 07 2011 15:58 VPVash wrote:On November 07 2011 04:27 Piledriver wrote:On November 07 2011 04:22 Nemireck wrote:I don't understand why Protoss is so low. I lose to toss all the time  Because toss is good/balanced at lower levels (even imba at bronze/silver/gold where people don't have enough multitasking or timing skills to punish tosses). At tournament level though, people clearly know the toss weaknesses and also have the required skill to execute the appropriate counters consistently. But that excuse is incorrect....it doesn't even make sense. Toss do well in "EVERY" tournament other then GSL Code S I'm sorry but that's just complete nonsense. The OP uses data from every major tournament worldwide, so it obviously isn't true that toss do well in EVERY other tournament than code S. A few more examples- no protoss made it to the quarterfinals of WCG Korea (it was 6 terrans and 2 zergs) and only one toss made it to the quarterfinals of the latest AOL. you're completely correct, and it's worth pointing out that in WCG, those 2 zergs lost 0-2 to Terrans. The game isn't balanced yet, people. this should come as a surprise to NO ONE.
The IPL 3 finals was a ZvZ. A zerg won the ASUS ROG Stars Invite. Nestea has won 3 titles playing Zerg. Therefore, zerg is OP.
See how stupid your argument is?
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On November 07 2011 16:04 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 15:48 zanmat0 wrote:On November 07 2011 12:59 thedirtyleg wrote:
What's up with the low sample size for this month compared to past months? Who knows, but we can clearly conclude that it makes this month's % inaccurate. If there was a larger sample size, I'm sure we can all agree that PvT would be 50/50, maybe Protoss even being a bit OP. I would agree with the first statement that this months statistics are potentially inaccurate due to insufficient sample size. How you get that the first statement makes the second a fact doesn't make sense to me. That's a possibility, but it could just as easily be 40-60 in favour of terran.
Heh, I guess I was too subtle.
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On November 07 2011 16:42 SniXSniPe wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 16:34 LoneWolf.Alpha- wrote:On November 07 2011 13:43 MyLastSerenade wrote:On November 07 2011 10:57 Lewan72 wrote:
Guys its cuz terran players are just better. one of the few true posts here.... didnt david kim said in an interview that the problem isnt really the balance, it is that so many really skilled players play terran, and not p or z? wow... if he really said this, then that makes me rage... Name the BW pros that switched over as P. Name the ones that are playing Z. Name the ones that are playing T. You'll see a much larger difference in numbers, as well as which race has the most successful players to switch over (in BW). So it's kind of true in a way.
Lol yeah it isn't even close
Terran: MVP, Puma, Supernova, Ganzi, Nada, Boxer, MMA, Bomber, theSTC, Rainbow, fOrGG
Zerg: Nestea, July, Fruitdealer, TheWind, Junwi
Protoss: MC, Sangho, Puzzle, Tester
Terran outclasses Zerg and Protoss in both quality and quantity.
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On November 07 2011 16:58 zanmat0 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 16:04 Amui wrote:On November 07 2011 15:48 zanmat0 wrote:On November 07 2011 12:59 thedirtyleg wrote:
What's up with the low sample size for this month compared to past months? Who knows, but we can clearly conclude that it makes this month's % inaccurate. If there was a larger sample size, I'm sure we can all agree that PvT would be 50/50, maybe Protoss even being a bit OP. I would agree with the first statement that this months statistics are potentially inaccurate due to insufficient sample size. How you get that the first statement makes the second a fact doesn't make sense to me. That's a possibility, but it could just as easily be 40-60 in favour of terran. Heh, I guess I was too subtle.
No, it's just that your troll backfired. Now what did you learn?
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I wish the mod would lock or delete this thread, for 3 reasons
1. All it does is promote balance whine and QQ.
2. It has nothing to do with the current state of the game. Tournaments don't play on the current ladder map pool, so the results dont reflect 99.9% of total games played
3. HOTS will be here soon
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On November 07 2011 16:42 BloodThirsty wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 16:41 kofman wrote:On November 07 2011 16:35 Trsjnica wrote:
Pretty insane that ZvT has *always* been Terran-favored, every single month since the game's release. Yea its crazy, especially since terran has been nerfed the most out of all the races. The idea that terran players are just better might have some truth to it. or these units called marines that when split correctly can kill anything in the game when fully upgraded O_O could be that too...... :D
This is what I mean when I say that Terran players are just stronger. Terran has marines, which when you have amazing control, are really good. That means that all of the good players naturally sway towards Terran, since they have marines, which have such a high skill cap.
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On November 07 2011 16:55 kofman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 16:50 karlkarlson wrote:On November 07 2011 16:41 kofman wrote:On November 07 2011 16:35 Trsjnica wrote:
Pretty insane that ZvT has *always* been Terran-favored, every single month since the game's release. Yea its crazy, especially since terran has been nerfed the most out of all the races. The idea that terran players are just better might have some truth to it. this is straight up nonsense. the people with the best sense of game balance AND the most accurate statistics, (blizzard) CONTINUE to feel terran is overpowered. one day they'll fire David Kim ( who plays T ) and hire an unbiased lead balance architect... Even with the nerfs, terrans are still the strongest race. The only reason I can see why terrans are still dominating is that terrans are simply better.
sorry, wrong. the make-up of nearly every high level SC2 tournament right now is 50%+ terran. your race , at the highest level, is simply easier. that is why blizzard keeps nerfing ( and will continue to nerf ).
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On November 07 2011 17:01 karlkarlson wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 16:55 kofman wrote:On November 07 2011 16:50 karlkarlson wrote:On November 07 2011 16:41 kofman wrote:On November 07 2011 16:35 Trsjnica wrote:
Pretty insane that ZvT has *always* been Terran-favored, every single month since the game's release. Yea its crazy, especially since terran has been nerfed the most out of all the races. The idea that terran players are just better might have some truth to it. this is straight up nonsense. the people with the best sense of game balance AND the most accurate statistics, (blizzard) CONTINUE to feel terran is overpowered. one day they'll fire David Kim ( who plays T ) and hire an unbiased lead balance architect... Even with the nerfs, terrans are still the strongest race. The only reason I can see why terrans are still dominating is that terrans are simply better. sorry, wrong. the make-up of nearly every high level SC2 tournament right now is 50%+ terran. your race , at the highest level, is simply easier. that is why blizzard keeps nerfing ( and will continue to nerf ).
The only high level sc2 tournament with more than 50% terran is GSL.
The statement that Terran is the easiest race at the highest level is complete bullshit. Terran is definetly the hardest race to play, but also the most rewarding in that its skill cap is the highest. Thats why in Korea, where the players are the best, Terran is doing the best, since Koreans are good enough to abuse Terran. Elsewhere, the races are balanced, because the Terran players can't take advantage of the higher skill cap.
Yes, blizzard keeps on nerfing and continues to nerf Terran. However, Terran remains the strongest race. The only real reason I can see for this is that Terran players are just superiour than the other races.
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On November 07 2011 17:00 Topdoller wrote:
I wish the mod would lock or delete this thread, for 3 reasons
1. All it does is promote balance whine and QQ.
2. It has nothing to do with the current state of the game. Tournaments don't play on the current ladder map pool, so the results dont reflect 99.9% of total games played
3. HOTS will be here soon
re #1: this thread is a compilation of FACTs my man. FACTS. if you don't like those facts, you should turn off firefox, and go back to one base all-ining
re: #2: it has EVERYTHING to do with the current state of the game. fans are getting turned off from the SC2 pro scene because they don't feel it's fair. right now, EVERY Korean tourney WCG, CODE S, past GSLS is 50%+ terran ( WCG is 100% terran semis ). This is not entertaining. it actually does the game and scene no favors.
re #3: HOTS won't be here for a year, we'll have infinity patches by then
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On November 07 2011 17:00 Topdoller wrote:
I wish the mod would lock or delete this thread, for 3 reasons
1. All it does is promote balance whine and QQ.
2. It has nothing to do with the current state of the game. Tournaments don't play on the current ladder map pool, so the results dont reflect 99.9% of total games played
3. HOTS will be here soon
1. So come up with something constructive to say instead of whining yourself.
2. That is not the purpose of the information being presented. It is clearly intended only as a representation of professional level play, not ladder matches. Whether any meaningful conclusions can be drawn for it is debatable.
3. Soom(tm)
edit: lol
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it's important to see if the top players from each race remain competitive with the top players from other races. this leads me to believe that protoss needs some help as a whole, while T and Z should probably stay as-is. nestea and drg still continue to look formidable in ZvT (although by all accounts it is nestea's weakest matchup) with a close series vs mvp and so on.
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On November 07 2011 17:05 karlkarlson wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 17:00 Topdoller wrote:
I wish the mod would lock or delete this thread, for 3 reasons
1. All it does is promote balance whine and QQ.
2. It has nothing to do with the current state of the game. Tournaments don't play on the current ladder map pool, so the results dont reflect 99.9% of total games played
3. HOTS will be here soon re #1: this thread is a compilation of FACTs my man. FACTS. if you don't like those facts, you should turn off firefox, and go back to one base all-ining re: #2: it has EVERYTHING to do with the current state of the game. fans are getting turned off from the SC2 pro scene because they don't feel it's fair. right now, EVERY Korean tourney WCG, CODE S, past GSLS is 50%+ terran ( WCG is 100% terran semis ). This is not entertaining. it actually does the game and scene no favors. re #3: HOTS won't be here for a year, we'll have infinity patches by then
#1: Balance whining is not facts. It is just whining that your race is UP, instead of taking losses like a man. Just because some people actually accept the fact that they lost because of their mistakes, not because of imbalance, doesn't mean that they are cheeses. In fact, its the complete opposite; they actually improve because they don't blame the game.
#2: You aren't pro. In fact, I'd be surprised if you were even masters. So, it doesn't affect you. The fact that you think EVERY Korean tournament to have 100% Terran just shows how biased you are.
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On November 07 2011 17:04 kofman wrote:
The statement that Terran is the easiest race at the highest level is complete bullshit. Terran is definetly the hardest race to play, but also the most rewarding in that its skill cap is the highest. Thats why in Korea, where the players are the best, Terran is doing the best, since Koreans are good enough to abuse Terran. Elsewhere, the races are balanced, because the Terran players can't take advantage of the higher skill cap.
Yes, blizzard keeps on nerfing and continues to nerf Terran. However, Terran remains the strongest race. The only real reason I can see for this is that Terran players are just superiour than the other races.
sorry, wrong again.
HAAHAHAHAH. argue with these pros please:
( and by the way, the only high level tournaments are korean ones WCG and CODE S BOTH of which are 50% + Terran. )
IMMVP 'I think the 1-1-1 should make you be disqualified from GSL.' Basically he's saying that terrans are OP but what part of the 1-1-1 that is OP is left to the imagination.
PoltPrime 'Many of these terrans are in Code S because the race is OP so I will knock them out.' So here Polt Prime is saying that terran is easier to win with basically. You have an easier time beating protoss or zerg players as terran.
EGDeMuslim 'I can't believe that Blizzard isn't looking at the ghost. I mean they nerfed rax build time by 5 seconds but they didn't look at the ghost. Greg (IdrA) keeps telling me to use ghosts more, and I have. Now I know why he thinks they need to be changed.' So EGDeMuslim is kinda hinting at the fact that ghosts should be looked at by Blizzard. This was in SotG episode 50 or 51.
WhiteRa 'I think the ghost have too many good spells. I think they do too good with everything protoss make and I think they need to be looked at by Blizzard. Too many good spells.' So WhiteRa the guy that popularized the statement More GG More Skill is saying that he thinks ghosts are a bit too good at the moment.
Huk 'I wish I played Terran.' This was also in a SotG episode where HuK says that playing terran seems to be a bigger benefit than playing protoss. His reasonings for why terran is a better choice for pro players isn't given but he feels being terran would help him.
IMNesTea 'Everyone knows that terran is much easier than zerg. If he didn't play terran he wouldn't have won so many championships. If I played terran I'd have won a lot more, if he played zerg I don't think he'd win.' This is NesTea talking about his teammate who after the match, looked depressed about winning.
FruitDealer 'You can't beat terran with this s*@$ race! This game is broken!' I hope you can figure out what he said. And maybe figure out why he said this.
oGsMC, 'Protoss is weak right now against terran.' Typically when one race is weaker than other we call that imbalanced. Maybe not though, maybe you can spin this.
Bisu 'Who would ever play that game? I hear it's terran favored. If protoss is so weak why even have them in the game? Just get rid of them. If I had to play it though, I would still pick protoss though.'
LiquidTLO 'Look how easy this race is. You build some rax and make marines. Don't stop making marines and keep pushing. It's not very hard. I stayed with terran because it's much easier.' I think he's saying it's easier to win with terran than zerg or protoss. Just a guess. He stated this on his stream one time.
IdrA and iNcontrol have said lots of things on terran being OP but you can disregard everything they said. IrdA is actually pretty smart and doesn't want to see things broken in this game. I think he needs to change his style a bit and that's why he loses, not his mechanics.
So I think you should tell all those pros, some of those quoted are also GSL champions, others have done well in MLG or other foregin tournaments.
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I'd urge the mods to lock this thread. It goes no where and is becoming a monthly ritualistic exercise in bloodletting. I do think these stats serve a purpose but they are seen far too often to have any substantive positive impact in terms of discussion. In fact, I'd urge the OP to release these stats every 3 - 6 months as that will likely be more indicative of the win percentages of the races with respect to each other at the highest level; and also spare everyone on TL the sort of circular nonsense these repetitive threads tend to generate. I really can't see anything good coming from this monthly exercise.
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On November 07 2011 17:09 kofman wrote:
#1: Balance whining is not facts. It is just whining that your race is UP, instead of taking losses like a man. Just because some people actually accept the fact that they lost because of their mistakes, not because of imbalance, doesn't mean that they are cheeses. In fact, its the complete opposite; they actually improve because they don't blame the game.
#2: You aren't pro. In fact, I'd be surprised if you were even masters. So, it doesn't affect you. The fact that you think EVERY Korean tournament to have 100% Terran just shows how biased you are.
#1) printing win race statistics ( WHICH ARE TRUE ) is not "balance whining", anymore than pointing out that the sky is blue is "colour whining". Again, silly goose. OP is just printing win rates IN TOURNAMENT GAMES by race. You are uncomfortable and defensive because you (like ANY CHILD) can see that RIGHT NOW, ( and since the launch of the game) one race has had a statistically easier time winning than the others.
#2) hahaha! you silly, silly goose. you see, when GOM, and blizzard decide on how to change maps , and offer patches, they are doing it because they recognize that the vast majority of people that watch SC2 are, like me NOT PRO. and, they recognize that regardless of one's skill level, one wants to compete on a balanced playing field. That is why, the wise ( wiser than you, anyway) folks at Blizzard have consistently nerfed terran every single patch. because they recognize that the race has too many abilities and options. and right now SC2 is not a balanced playing field.
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On November 07 2011 16:55 kofman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 16:50 karlkarlson wrote:On November 07 2011 16:41 kofman wrote:On November 07 2011 16:35 Trsjnica wrote:
Pretty insane that ZvT has *always* been Terran-favored, every single month since the game's release. Yea its crazy, especially since terran has been nerfed the most out of all the races. The idea that terran players are just better might have some truth to it. this is straight up nonsense. the people with the best sense of game balance AND the most accurate statistics, (blizzard) CONTINUE to feel terran is overpowered. one day they'll fire David Kim ( who plays T ) and hire an unbiased lead balance architect... LOL, David Kim plays random fyi, and terran has been constantly nerfed every patch. Even with the nerfs, terrans are still the strongest race. The only reason I can see why terrans are still dominating is that terrans are simply better.
Terrans simply better, just took them a year and a half to start using blue flame hellions which had been unchanged, and ghosts, which some people even said received a nerf from the original cost since "terran is so mineral intensive". Lol. They'll continue to be nerfed as well if the statistics don't even out.
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EPT
