EPTThat's about all I have to say about this. As for my own experience, I win 80% of my ZvTs, 60% of my ZvZs and 30% of my ZvPs. If I wanted the game to be balanced to a 50/50 win rate at my level, things would turn out really, really weird.
[October] TLPD Race Winrate Graphs - Page 18
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Zlarp
Switzerland9 Posts
That's about all I have to say about this. As for my own experience, I win 80% of my ZvTs, 60% of my ZvZs and 30% of my ZvPs. If I wanted the game to be balanced to a 50/50 win rate at my level, things would turn out really, really weird. | ||
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canikizu
4860 Posts
On November 07 2011 15:24 MilesTeg wrote: As far as I know Protoss already dominates the ladder, right? And most Zergs I know have a lot of problems in ZvP. The MU seems unwinnable at times. I think the problem with Protoss maybe the skill ceiling. They feel overwhelmingly powerful at my level, but maybe they lack the flexibility of the other races for the pros. Their timings feel much more powerful than what any other races can do, but when people learn to deal with them it seems there is nothing else. Now, the question needs to be asked, is it really that there is no solid way to play Protoss without relying on these pushes, or is it that the players were so used to get free wins with 4G/6G/deathball that they don't know another way to play? I think that they're not experimenting enough yet. For example, one problem with HT is that they can easily be sniped off by cloaked ghosts. You can detect cloaked ghost by observers, but they can be killed off easily by a scan. The solution? Proxy pylon cannon. I saw some protoss putting cannon in the middle of the road, battlefields. It can detect ghosts, ghosts can't snipe it, and if the terran tries to kill it off with stim marauders, a stationed HT, which can't be killed by ghosts, can just storm them away like when the old time when terrran drop vs KAed HT. That's a style I want to see protoss to do more. | ||
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VPVash
United States139 Posts
On November 07 2011 04:27 Piledriver wrote: Because toss is good/balanced at lower levels (even imba at bronze/silver/gold where people don't have enough multitasking or timing skills to punish tosses). At tournament level though, people clearly know the toss weaknesses and also have the required skill to execute the appropriate counters consistently. But that excuse is incorrect....it doesn't even make sense. Toss do well in "EVERY" tournament other then GSL Code S. The reason there's lots of Terran is because it was almost impossible to drop out of Code S and sadly toss players have been victims only because to begin with not many made it in Code S and it's extremely hard to get into Code S. Overall Terran isn't imba, toss is a good race, zerg is a good race. Game is pretty balance and I think once the ghost nerf comes it will be pretty solid for all races. Look at Zerg, they have been winning everything other then MLG. Nestea was owning Code S recently and now Terrans are dropping out with the new format. Soon everyone will realise that the game is pretty even at the top level. SeleCT almost lost to Elfi at the ASUS Invitational and he was on like 6 base to 2-3 the whole game. Protoss is pretty strong late game and I think that's been shown lately. Also another argument would be that Terrans don't win tournaments other then Code S. MLG doesn't really count since recently the best 3 Korean Terrans won it...and HuK just won so I'm starting to think Protoss is finally adapted in a way to take advantage of there late game strength and that's why there winning. But overall Terrans ghosts are a slight problem which is getting nerfed so we will see when the time comes if it helps tons with the Toss QQ'ers. There's probably tons of stuff I left out that I forgot to type but keep fighting brohans!!!! | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On November 07 2011 15:48 zanmat0 wrote: Who knows, but we can clearly conclude that it makes this month's % inaccurate. If there was a larger sample size, I'm sure we can all agree that PvT would be 50/50, maybe Protoss even being a bit OP. I would agree with the first statement that this months statistics are potentially inaccurate due to insufficient sample size. How you get that the first statement makes the second a fact doesn't make sense to me. That's a possibility, but it could just as easily be 40-60 in favour of terran. | ||
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okum
France5778 Posts
On November 07 2011 14:40 Highways wrote: Poor Protoss  To the idiots complaining about the scale of the axis, THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH IT. 1. The purpose of zooming in is to show the trends of the matchups, on a relative level and not an absolute one. 2. All the matchups use the exact same scale so you can compare the trends across. Axes of Evil | ||
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Champi
1422 Posts
chin up slugga's, our time will come | ||
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Techno
1900 Posts
On November 07 2011 16:09 Champi wrote: so depressing to look at lol. chin up slugga's, our time will come Pretty sure its more depressing for Terrans and Zergs. Protosses are probably like "Fuck yea! Were doing bad in Code S again so maybe well get buffed". | ||
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KAmaKAsa
Finland210 Posts
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Sayer
United States403 Posts
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SniXSniPe
United States1938 Posts
On November 07 2011 16:17 Sayer wrote: damn poor protoss. I will tear in joy one day Terran is below 50% lol T was slightly under 50% in TvP last month for September. It's Z that is ruining PvX currently. | ||
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LoneWolf.Alpha-
123 Posts
On November 07 2011 13:43 MyLastSerenade wrote: one of the few true posts here.... didnt david kim said in an interview that the problem isnt really the balance, it is that so many really skilled players play terran, and not p or z? wow... if he really said this, then that makes me rage... | ||
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Trsjnica
United States477 Posts
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Treva
United States533 Posts
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ElusoryX
Singapore2047 Posts
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kofman
Andorra698 Posts
On November 07 2011 16:35 Trsjnica wrote: Pretty insane that ZvT has *always* been Terran-favored, every single month since the game's release. Yea its crazy, especially since terran has been nerfed the most out of all the races. The idea that terran players are just better might have some truth to it. | ||
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SniXSniPe
United States1938 Posts
On November 07 2011 16:34 LoneWolf.Alpha- wrote: wow... if he really said this, then that makes me rage... Name the BW pros that switched over as P. Name the ones that are playing Z. Name the ones that are playing T. You'll see a much larger difference in numbers, as well as which race has the most successful players to switch over (in BW). So it's kind of true in a way. | ||
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LimeNade
United States2125 Posts
On November 07 2011 16:41 kofman wrote: Yea its crazy, especially since terran has been nerfed the most out of all the races. The idea that terran players are just better might have some truth to it. or these units called marines that when split correctly can kill anything in the game when fully upgraded O_O could be that too...... :D | ||
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tomatriedes
New Zealand5356 Posts
On November 07 2011 15:58 VPVash wrote: But that excuse is incorrect....it doesn't even make sense. Toss do well in "EVERY" tournament other then GSL Code S I'm sorry but that's just complete nonsense. The OP uses data from every major tournament worldwide, so it obviously isn't true that toss do well in EVERY other tournament than code S. A few more recent examples- no protoss made it to the quarterfinals of WCG Korea (it was 6 terrans and 2 zergs) and only one toss made it to the quarterfinals of the latest AOL. | ||
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karlkarlson
26 Posts
On November 07 2011 16:41 kofman wrote: Yea its crazy, especially since terran has been nerfed the most out of all the races. The idea that terran players are just better might have some truth to it. this is straight up nonsense. the people with the best sense of game balance AND the most accurate statistics, (blizzard) CONTINUE to feel terran is overpowered. one day they'll fire David Kim ( who plays T ) and hire an unbiased lead balance architect... | ||
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karlkarlson
26 Posts
On November 07 2011 16:50 tomatriedes wrote: I'm sorry but that's just complete nonsense. The OP uses data from every major tournament worldwide, so it obviously isn't true that toss do well in EVERY other tournament than code S. A few more examples- no protoss made it to the quarterfinals of WCG Korea (it was 6 terrans and 2 zergs) and only one toss made it to the quarterfinals of the latest AOL. you're completely correct, and it's worth pointing out that in WCG, those 2 zergs lost 0-2 to Terrans. The game isn't balanced yet, people. this should come as a surprise to NO ONE. | ||
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