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Tyrania
Germany24 Posts
On November 01 2011 02:36 zachMEISTER wrote: And yet another defending their actions. Fantastic! Where do i defend ourselves ? Cloud is totally right with what he said. The final of that qualifier he won is not even 48 hours ago and even thou i understand that he questions a payment without harassing us from his experience, i just wanted to point out that we pay prizemoney. | ||
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DoomsVille
Canada4885 Posts
On November 01 2011 02:17 templar rage wrote: I wonder how many players actually have the leverage to do this (assuming it worked for Idra) Very very few. IdrA is one of the few players in the world that isn't really replaceable in terms of generating viewers. I'd say there are maybe 5-10 in the world that can make the same demands as him. | ||
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ES_JohnClark
United States1121 Posts
On November 01 2011 02:47 chadissilent wrote: Many companies such as Imperial Oil, Shell, etc. pay their engineers monthly. Expecting immediate tournament payout is unreasonable due to accounting/logistics, however a timeframe beyond 3 months is unacceptable. When dealing with sponsors, tournament organizers have zero leverage so sponsors can do as they please. This is where a centralized body would be beneficial. "Sponsor [x] can't afford to pay within [promised time]? There are two options: Once time has elapsed, make this public and boycott the sponsor OR use the centralized body's legal team to put pressure on the sponsors. From past experience, things tend to happen pretty quickly when the party at-fault receives a letter with a law firm's letterhead. Just my pair of pennies... That is a solid pair of pennies  | ||
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gullberg
Sweden1301 Posts
Can't say that I'm surprised about ESWC either, I'm starting to doubt that anyone will get payed... | ||
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BoomNasty
United States265 Posts
On November 01 2011 02:42 enzymezero wrote: There has been plenty of time for him to get paid. It isn't outrageous. He is trying to draw attention to the fact that these companies haven't been exactly forthwith in rewarding money that he was due. What is outrageous is the complacency these companies have in rewarding money to winning players. If we don't hold these companies accountable now, this will only encourage this behavior in the future. you are ignoring the fact that i said 3 months should be an acceotable time to pay out players.... im not worried about times where people dont get paid for a year. | ||
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
therefore simple advice: get yourself a lawyer and start suing the crap out of people; usually you have to do it a couple of times, then they'll start paying on time. | ||
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enzymezero
United States65 Posts
On November 01 2011 02:46 IdrA wrote: it had been paid, more than a year late. esl pays what they owe, its just always ridiculously late and requires a lot of prodding. A year late? Ridiculous. People need to stop playing in these tournaments right now (thumbs up Idra). This is unacceptable. Boycott ESL, anyone? | ||
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zYwi3c
Poland1811 Posts
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eNtitY~
United States1293 Posts
On November 01 2011 02:47 csn_JohnClark wrote: gawd..this is getting out of hand. Too many people who have little understanding of business are trashing organizations that have continued to help grow eSports. YES.. it is wrong and unacceptable not to pay out in a fairly timely manner.. but 3 months is nothing new to the business world and we cant be throwing shit around about not being paid within a week or 30 days. As a whole this thread is not overreacting or caring about 30 day grace periods here. As far as I understand it people are getting more upset with EPS and such taking much longer and sometimes over a year. | ||
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BGrael
Germany229 Posts
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Huge O
Great Britain95 Posts
So surely prize money transfer could be ready to go soon after. Obviously there could be issues relating to international aspects. Prize pools are part of the excitement. Not to mention fans want to see their favourite pros earn, as they want them to remain pro, practice and get better. Is there some way pros could help out? I mean maybe not paypal, as doesn't it take a cut. Some payment arrangement that was fast and relatively easy. | ||
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Exarl25
1887 Posts
On November 01 2011 02:45 Cinim wrote: Generally speaking, I still don't have a big clue who to believe in. A lot of players here is saying they are having issues, so it seems there is something to it. But it still tells absolutely nothing to any of us, most people here just getting on the players side, instantly blaming all of the tournament holders, while they have no clue of what is going on. Personally, the only way you can really tell about this, is if some of these contracts that has actually been made between X player and X tournament, is released, and proof that this X contract has been broken. Is this simply players who are greedy, and cant w8 for money? Is it the tournament holders who are greedy? or is this the sponsors faults? no one can tell without evidence. Greedy? What the hell is greedy about wanting to be paid the money you are owed? Cloud has yet to be paid for his EPS 2nd place from almost a year ago, regardless of whether that blame lies with the sponsors or the tournament organisers he has every right to make a thread about it. This is not the first time this problem has come up in esports, there have been cases of players simply never being paid at all. This issue is one that should be brought to light. | ||
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zachMEISTER
United States625 Posts
On November 01 2011 02:48 Tyrania wrote: Where do i defend ourselves ? Cloud is totally right with what he said. The final of that qualifier he won is not even 48 hours ago and even thou i understand that he questions a payment without harassing us from his experience, i just wanted to point out that we pay prizemoney. You're making a statement about the situation: Defending yourself. He's making a claim that he hasn't been paid. He never said he didn't expect it, but he just said he hasn't been paid yet. So, you made a public statement reassuring him that he will be paid. That is where you defend yourself. You're defending yourself from the negative publicity that is connected with "I HAVENT BEEN PAID YET" | ||
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Paragleiber
413 Posts
On November 01 2011 00:58 RevThirteen wrote: Is there no way to take legal action with a lawyer against these tournaments? The problem is that legal actions can take almost forever as well and you can also easily end up paying more for the lawyer than the actual prize money is worth. | ||
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PantsB
United States77 Posts
On November 01 2011 02:17 csn_JohnClark wrote: again.. I see a lot of comments that are misguided. It is very important the the community understand that an acceptable wait period is 3 months and in some cases 6 months. O_o You're claiming that 90-180 days is a fine as accounts payable age? I don't know of any industry where that is standard.... 30-60 days is much more reasonable given a continuing relationship. An average account payable age of 90-180 days is one that has gone beyond holding money as long as possible into the abusive/unreliable realm. A 90-180 day accounts receivable wouldn't be considered fine and dandy so a 90-180 accounts payable shouldn't be either. ed Even a 3 month/90 day window isn't unreasonable given the unusual nature of these things... but 180 days is beyond an acceptable time period. Commercial accounts can be reported as in default past 90 days. Unless there's a clear agreement on a payment delay, 180 days is not OK | ||
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
On November 01 2011 02:51 Paragleiber wrote: The problem is that legal actions can take almost forever as well and you can also easily end up paying more for the lawyer than the actual prize money is worth. This very much depends on the legal system - in Austria, for instance, the person that loses has to pay both lawyers AND all the cost of the trial | ||
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appe
Sweden149 Posts
On November 01 2011 02:47 csn_JohnClark wrote: gawd..this is getting out of hand. Too many people who have little understanding of business are trashing organizations that have continued to help grow eSports. YES.. it is wrong and unacceptable not to pay out in a fairly timely manner.. but 3 months is nothing new to the business world and we cant be throwing shit around about not being paid within a week or 30 days. So perhaps these organizations needs to be more clear about their payout deadlines? If I was a supplier of a company who's supposed to pay me for my goods being delivered, I wouldn't accept "soon" as a valid date. | ||
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Raysalis
Malaysia1034 Posts
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zeru
8156 Posts
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Teiwaz
Austria158 Posts
1.) Some tournaments seem to lack professionalism - and maybe the money to pay the players. Solution: Happens one time, ok, happens again, don't go there anymore. Those tournaments will die pretty soon. 2.) Big tournaments have huge business behind them. Players have to understand the bureaucracy behind all that and that it actually takes some time for those companies to get the payment done. Solution: Tournaments have to make the players aware of this circumstances AT SOME POINT OF THE TOURNAMENT REGISTRATION. Players have to accept this. 3.) Sometimes tournament prizes are not clearly declarated as "this is your prize money from tournament XY". Solution: Tournaments need to mark them more clearly and should additionally contact the players "Hey GUY, we sent you your money, please contact ME if you haven't received the money within X workdays". Happy times are to be had. [edit] Actually I'm having my birthday in 5:05 hours, not yet... [/edit] | ||
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