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On November 01 2011 02:41 OGKruemmel wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 02:39 IdrA wrote:On November 01 2011 02:08 Joshy.IGN wrote:
Note from IGN: We paid out everyone from IPL season 1, and we are aware that certain players from IPL 2 have not yet received their winnings. IPL 2's grand final aired on August 14th, not even 90 days ago. We have everyone's financial information from IPL 2 and the current word is that checks/Paypal transfers should be ready to go within the week.
One thing about IGN Pro League that people may not consider is that we are not just 1 guy with $1000 laying around that we can just dump in someone's account the moment they win a bo5. IGN is a massive organization that we are just one part of, and we have to adhere to all of the federal regulations that are invoked when dealing with paying thousands of dollars to (as far as the law is concerned) international contractors. We have a finance department that must be satisfied with its paperwork before we can give out money. Not only this, but our players were informed that there would be a wait involved when we collected their payment information.
I'm sorry to hear that ClouD, Darkforce, and others have been waiting a long time for a lot of money, but trust me, IGN Pro League has every intent of paying everyone, even down to translators for online qualifiers, what they are owed. =) i have not been paid for ipl season 1 So, who should we trust now?
IdrA. Auto-vote.
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On November 01 2011 02:17 csn_JohnClark wrote:
again.. I see a lot of comments that are misguided. It is very important the the community understand that an acceptable wait period is 3 months and in some cases 6 months. ESL has it's problems and anything over 6 months is unacceptable.. but we all need to be on the same page regarding that. Any company that promises a time frame should be held to that.. however, if the company has a player sign a contract with it written that payment could take up to 6 months there can not be disgruntle players that have not been paid in 2 weeks ..throwing crap all over the intertron about how a company has not paid out in 14 days. We must be careful here.
As Joshy has pointed out.... many of these large organizations must jump through hoops to make sure the prize money is paid out. This process can take time. As for smaller organizations (like mine).. we are often at the mercy of an investor or sponsor. For CSN, its very important to us that we have our sponsorship money up front.. but this is not always possible and we must trust the sponsor we are working with.
The entire process of getting the organizations, players and sponsors on the same page and more structured requires a basic understanding of the process and time involved in many cases.
another 3 cents..
3 months is barely acceptable and anything over that is clearly unacceptable. I think 30 days should be the timeframe to pay the prizes.
I understand there are reasons to delay the payment, but not having the money shouldn't be one. If someone doesn't have the money to organize a tournament, shouldn't be organizing one.
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On November 01 2011 02:36 BoomNasty wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 02:32 Tyrania wrote:Hey Cloud. i am representative and ceo of gaming insight. we are running the XMG GI Cup you mentioned in you very first post. First of all, i´d like to point out that all of you guys definetly deserve your money, especially big companys should be able to pay this almost instantly, because prize money is almost always just a small piece of total event costs that come along with events of such a size. You won 50 Euros at our XMG Gaming Insight SC2 Qualifier last saturday night, which is not even 48 hours ago right now. I got your paypal email adress in the logs and you paypal money has already been sent like all other winners of the qualifiers before got their money and all future winner will. Some days delay are due to the money transfers in the background and after all, it needs to be at least a working day for the guys in the office :D We got all money and support from our sponsors XMG, Gameladen, Need for Seat and Steelseries in advance and will be able to give away that 1500Euros and the Notebook instantly in the final invitational tournament as well. So I would really appreciate if tournament holders gather their prize pool before holding the event itself, even thoug i know it is not always that easy to get some money in advance. So i am totally with you guys, you deserve all that prize money! But after all please point out that XMG Gaming Insight does not owe you money, we pay our bills  Cheers Mike Gaming Insight based on this and a few other posts from tourny people, im starting to think that cloud just wants all his money the money he wins the tournament, which in my eyes is outrageous. cant take anything cloud said to be serious right now
There has been plenty of time for him to get paid. It isn't outrageous. He is trying to draw attention to the fact that these companies haven't been exactly forthwith in rewarding money that he was due. What is outrageous is the complacency these companies have in rewarding money to winning players.
If we don't hold these companies accountable now, this will only encourage this behavior in the future.
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This is usually how it goes when the companies arranging the events relies on sponsors, 3rd part for finance, etc.. The issue exist everywhere, weather its exhibitions, fairs, charter events, etc.. The best remedy for these kind of issues are actually to do just as Cloud does, complain until you get your money or threaten to sue the company.
Another thing you should do is to get all the financial data about the company organizing the event. In Sweden we have a site called www.allabolag.se, there you can see their economy. If the result is negative, or they have 0 employees and 0 turnover you should be worried.
Here is Dreamhack for a reference.
Dreamhack AB: http://allabolag.se/5568458763
Dreamhack Holding company: http://allabolag.se/5567142657
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On November 01 2011 02:41 OGKruemmel wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 02:39 IdrA wrote:On November 01 2011 02:08 Joshy.IGN wrote:
Note from IGN: We paid out everyone from IPL season 1, and we are aware that certain players from IPL 2 have not yet received their winnings. IPL 2's grand final aired on August 14th, not even 90 days ago. We have everyone's financial information from IPL 2 and the current word is that checks/Paypal transfers should be ready to go within the week.
One thing about IGN Pro League that people may not consider is that we are not just 1 guy with $1000 laying around that we can just dump in someone's account the moment they win a bo5. IGN is a massive organization that we are just one part of, and we have to adhere to all of the federal regulations that are invoked when dealing with paying thousands of dollars to (as far as the law is concerned) international contractors. We have a finance department that must be satisfied with its paperwork before we can give out money. Not only this, but our players were informed that there would be a wait involved when we collected their payment information.
I'm sorry to hear that ClouD, Darkforce, and others have been waiting a long time for a lot of money, but trust me, IGN Pro League has every intent of paying everyone, even down to translators for online qualifiers, what they are owed. =) i have not been paid for ipl season 1 So, who should we trust now?
to be fair ipl is obviously legitimate and i know other players have received their prizes from them, but i have not.
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On November 01 2011 02:36 BoomNasty wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 02:32 Tyrania wrote:Hey Cloud. i am representative and ceo of gaming insight. we are running the XMG GI Cup you mentioned in you very first post. First of all, i´d like to point out that all of you guys definetly deserve your money, especially big companys should be able to pay this almost instantly, because prize money is almost always just a small piece of total event costs that come along with events of such a size. You won 50 Euros at our XMG Gaming Insight SC2 Qualifier last saturday night, which is not even 48 hours ago right now. I got your paypal email adress in the logs and you paypal money has already been sent like all other winners of the qualifiers before got their money and all future winner will. Some days delay are due to the money transfers in the background and after all, it needs to be at least a working day for the guys in the office :D We got all money and support from our sponsors XMG, Gameladen, Need for Seat and Steelseries in advance and will be able to give away that 1500Euros and the Notebook instantly in the final invitational tournament as well. So I would really appreciate if tournament holders gather their prize pool before holding the event itself, even thoug i know it is not always that easy to get some money in advance. So i am totally with you guys, you deserve all that prize money! But after all please point out that XMG Gaming Insight does not owe you money, we pay our bills Cheers Mike Gaming Insight based on this and a few other posts from tourny people, im starting to think that cloud just wants all his money the money he wins the tournament, which in my eyes is outrageous. cant take anything cloud said to be serious right now
Cloud just wants what? Can we get that in English please?
All he wants is to be payed the money he is owed. In XMG's case he did say that the tournament was very recent and his only worry was that he would have to chase them up because he had not yet been contacted. The XMG representative here is just assuring him that this willl not be necessary and he will receive the money promptly. This contradicts nothing that Cloud said.
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On November 01 2011 02:41 OGKruemmel wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 02:39 IdrA wrote:On November 01 2011 02:08 Joshy.IGN wrote:
Note from IGN: We paid out everyone from IPL season 1, and we are aware that certain players from IPL 2 have not yet received their winnings. IPL 2's grand final aired on August 14th, not even 90 days ago. We have everyone's financial information from IPL 2 and the current word is that checks/Paypal transfers should be ready to go within the week.
One thing about IGN Pro League that people may not consider is that we are not just 1 guy with $1000 laying around that we can just dump in someone's account the moment they win a bo5. IGN is a massive organization that we are just one part of, and we have to adhere to all of the federal regulations that are invoked when dealing with paying thousands of dollars to (as far as the law is concerned) international contractors. We have a finance department that must be satisfied with its paperwork before we can give out money. Not only this, but our players were informed that there would be a wait involved when we collected their payment information.
I'm sorry to hear that ClouD, Darkforce, and others have been waiting a long time for a lot of money, but trust me, IGN Pro League has every intent of paying everyone, even down to translators for online qualifiers, what they are owed. =) i have not been paid for ipl season 1 So, who should we trust now?
the plot thickens
but on a serious note do they have a contract or anything they make with players on pay out or is it just on the tourney's honor kinda deal?
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This cannot be forgotten.
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idra has no reason to lie, especially if he was lying it could be easily proven false
so... ruh roh
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On November 01 2011 02:40 Nizzy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 02:39 IdrA wrote:On November 01 2011 02:08 Joshy.IGN wrote:
Note from IGN: We paid out everyone from IPL season 1, and we are aware that certain players from IPL 2 have not yet received their winnings. IPL 2's grand final aired on August 14th, not even 90 days ago. We have everyone's financial information from IPL 2 and the current word is that checks/Paypal transfers should be ready to go within the week.
One thing about IGN Pro League that people may not consider is that we are not just 1 guy with $1000 laying around that we can just dump in someone's account the moment they win a bo5. IGN is a massive organization that we are just one part of, and we have to adhere to all of the federal regulations that are invoked when dealing with paying thousands of dollars to (as far as the law is concerned) international contractors. We have a finance department that must be satisfied with its paperwork before we can give out money. Not only this, but our players were informed that there would be a wait involved when we collected their payment information.
I'm sorry to hear that ClouD, Darkforce, and others have been waiting a long time for a lot of money, but trust me, IGN Pro League has every intent of paying everyone, even down to translators for online qualifiers, what they are owed. =) i have not been paid for ipl season 1 Shit just got real.
http://somethingjustgotreal.com/
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Idra, could you clarify whether this is correct:
On November 01 2011 02:35 Carmac wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 02:08 iNcontroL wrote:
idra had to threaten to not play esl events any more to get paid for something he was owed over a year ago O_O Except IdrA threatened about prize money which was paid out, except he hadn't noticed ;-)
We all know that ESL have a history of not paying/being late but it would be nice to know whether they have been more trustworthy as of late.
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On November 01 2011 02:34 csn_JohnClark wrote:
a good idea.. (besides many other needed changes) to the TL tournament tracker would be a 'rating' system.. where players that joined those events could rate each event (after completion).. on a few categories that are relevant to a successful tournament.
example: (keep the rating system simple!)
Tournament Rating: (1 being the lowest, 5 being the highest rating)
1. Production Value - 1,2,3,4,5
2. Administrative support - 1,2,3,4,5
3. Prizing clearly defined - 1,2,3,4,5
4. Tournament Structure/format - 1,2,3,4,5
5. Event Coverage and post coverage - 1,2,3,4,5
6. Website (user friendly, features, etc) - 1,2,3,4,5
7. Prizes paid within 3 months - 1,2,3,4,5
I think those are perfect ratings and if TL was to update their poorly laid out Tournament Tracker and included this rating system.. the Tournament Tracker would get a lot more use and be a lot more relevant on this site.
i like the idea, but i would add "player treatment" or sth like that
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Generally speaking, I still don't have a big clue who to believe in.
A lot of players here is saying they are having issues, so it seems there is something to it.
But it still tells absolutely nothing to any of us, most people here just getting on the players side, instantly blaming all of the tournament holders, while they have no clue of what is going on.
Personally, the only way you can really tell about this, is if some of these contracts that has actually been made between X player and X tournament, is released, and proof that this X contract has been broken.
Is this simply players who are greedy, and cant w8 for money? Is it the tournament holders who are greedy? or is this the sponsors faults? no one can tell without evidence.
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What is this? dont organize a tourny if u dont intend to pay with a week or sumin ?! seriously
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On November 01 2011 02:43 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 02:41 OGKruemmel wrote:On November 01 2011 02:39 IdrA wrote:On November 01 2011 02:08 Joshy.IGN wrote:
Note from IGN: We paid out everyone from IPL season 1, and we are aware that certain players from IPL 2 have not yet received their winnings. IPL 2's grand final aired on August 14th, not even 90 days ago. We have everyone's financial information from IPL 2 and the current word is that checks/Paypal transfers should be ready to go within the week.
One thing about IGN Pro League that people may not consider is that we are not just 1 guy with $1000 laying around that we can just dump in someone's account the moment they win a bo5. IGN is a massive organization that we are just one part of, and we have to adhere to all of the federal regulations that are invoked when dealing with paying thousands of dollars to (as far as the law is concerned) international contractors. We have a finance department that must be satisfied with its paperwork before we can give out money. Not only this, but our players were informed that there would be a wait involved when we collected their payment information.
I'm sorry to hear that ClouD, Darkforce, and others have been waiting a long time for a lot of money, but trust me, IGN Pro League has every intent of paying everyone, even down to translators for online qualifiers, what they are owed. =) i have not been paid for ipl season 1 So, who should we trust now? to be fair ipl is obviously legitimate and i know other players have received their prizes from them, but i have not.
they could post a bank statement showing the check paid ... otherwise i don't see how they could convince people ...
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On November 01 2011 02:44 simmeh wrote:
idra has no reason to lie, especially if he was lying it could be easily proven false
so... ruh roh
haha IdrA, making shit real once again.
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On November 01 2011 02:45 xtfftc wrote:Idra, could you clarify whether this is correct: Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 02:35 Carmac wrote:On November 01 2011 02:08 iNcontroL wrote:
idra had to threaten to not play esl events any more to get paid for something he was owed over a year ago O_O Except IdrA threatened about prize money which was paid out, except he hadn't noticed ;-) We all know that ESL have a history of not paying/being late but it would be nice to know whether they have been more trustworthy as of late.
it had been paid, more than a year late. esl pays what they owe, its just always ridiculously late and requires a lot of prodding.
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yeah yeah so maybe some tournaments were less then 90 days ago ... ok but whats the matter with the 2010 tournaments??
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gawd..this is getting out of hand. Too many people who have little understanding of business are trashing organizations that have continued to help grow eSports. YES.. it is wrong and unacceptable not to pay out in a fairly timely manner.. but 3 months is nothing new to the business world and we cant be throwing shit around about not being paid within a week or 30 days.
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Many companies such as Imperial Oil, Shell, etc. pay their engineers monthly. Expecting immediate tournament payout is unreasonable due to accounting/logistics, however a timeframe beyond 3 months is unacceptable. When dealing with sponsors, tournament organizers have zero leverage so sponsors can do as they please. This is where a centralized body would be beneficial. "Sponsor [x] can't afford to pay within [promised time]? There are two options: Once time has elapsed, make this public and boycott the sponsor OR use the centralized body's legal team to put pressure on the sponsors. From past experience, things tend to happen pretty quickly when the party at-fault receives a letter with a law firm's letterhead.
Just my pair of pennies...
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EPT
