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On November 01 2011 02:21 ReachTheSky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 02:20 zachMEISTER wrote:On November 01 2011 02:17 templar rage wrote:On November 01 2011 02:08 iNcontroL wrote:
idra had to threaten to not play esl events any more to get paid for something he was owed over a year ago O_O I wonder how many players actually have the leverage to do this (assuming it worked for Idra) I think ALL players have the leverage to do so. It's the players who make the tournament, not the prizemoney. Idra had leverage to do that because he attract a big amount of viewers. Viewers attract sponsors. No one gives a shit about watching joeschmoe. So no, not all players have the leverage/power to do so.
Yeah, this was my thinking on it. Idra is one of the biggest (if not the biggest) viewer draw in the game right now, so not having him at your tournament (or worse, him not attending for reasons like this and those reasons being publicized) pretty much means you aren't getting as many views as you could be. I'm not saying that a tournament needs Idra (or someone similar) to be legit or anything, but potentially alienating players like that (especially for a major tour like ESL) is a blow no tournament is going to want to take.
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so, what can the community do in this regard? how about an updated list of tournaments who, despite their promises, haven't paid their players yet and an updated list of tournaments who, even though they keep their promise, have unreasonable waiting times (what a "unreasonable" waiting time is, is left for the community to chose)?
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This has been a problem for a long time in esports, maybe some sort of union for players is needed?
I might be wrong but wasn't kespa founded because players were getting fucked by teams and/or tournaments?
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wait..didn't current managers of ESWC say that they had bought the name+license but the management is completely different and there wouldn't be any issues the "previous" ESWC had..like.. PAYING THE FUCKING PRIZES? And now they don't even ask for your bank details lol.
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So, I hate to be this guy here, but if you know they have a record of not paying out, why do you participate? Is it a...well this the only stuff I can enter kind of deal, where you enter knowing that you may never get paid at all or what? It's easy for me to sit here and my 8-5 knowing that I'm going to get my salary no matter what, but it seems like it would be asking for it going into an event when they have a history of paying late / never.
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that tournaments that are new can't always pay out I kinda do understand, they perhaps have sponsors who don't do what they told they would do. But what shocks me is that ESL / Dreamhack are two of the most named parties, they already excist over 5 years they should know they need to get the money before their tournaments so they can pay out the players in time.
this thread is extremly intresting I am planning to organize a tournament / league myself, and due to this I will ensure that before I say anything about prizemoney I will make sure it's also there. And I will pay out immedially after the event finishes because I do see how important this is. i think it's pretty shocking players are waiting for over 6000 euro of prizemoney, that's like the income of 2,5 month for the most of us I think.
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I like how the instant this thread was posted two major tournaments speeded up their process to pay out the money that they owed. This shows the power of community awareness.
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this was a huge problem in CPL for Counter strike, and I really expected better out of a stronger, bigger scene in Starcraft 2. Boy was I wrong
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On November 01 2011 02:23 Bobster wrote:
I want to see this discussed on the next esports talk show, and make sure someone poses these questions to Carmac in the next interview. I like the guy, but this has to be addressed for e-sports to move forward as a legitimate profession.
It's been discussed in the past on state of the game.
I just wish more effort would go into exposing tournaments that regularly go over 6 months behind in their pay-outs. As a viewer, I'd like to know, and past knowledge has resulted in my refusal to watch events such as the EPS/ESL events.
I would expect players to give the customary 90 days to pay. 90 more days leeway to "catch up" in payments with private communications between the player owed money, and the organization. And at 181 days, expose expose expose.
ESL is already famous for not paying their competitors, and I'm genuinely surprised that they still garner enough players, that they can garner enough viewers that they can still attract sponsors. If the players had boycott the organization years ago (as they should have), then at least one corrupt organization would be out of the picture. I really hope that Idra STILL boycotts their future tournaments, even though they finally paid his late dues.
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On November 01 2011 02:29 NoobieOne wrote:
I like how the instant this thread was posted two major tournaments speeded up their process to pay out the money that they owed. This shows the power of community awareness.
I'm not sure they sped up the process so much as they simply publicly stated where the process is currently standing.
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Prolly it's a way to have a contract with the tournament organization being set up before the tournament (for LANs). Would be great to have a G7 to take care of smth like that...
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On November 01 2011 02:13 Carmac wrote:
For anyone asking:
Intel Extreme Masters is on schedule with prize money payouts. 2010/2011 is paid out. Next event to get paid out is the Cologne Global Challenge (either paid out or until 3 months after the event, which is in November). Guangzhou & New York Global Challenges will be paid out within 3 months of the respective event dates.
That's a very lean schedule. nevertheless good that it's payed out.
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Does anyone know the timeframe in which ESL pays out their weekly ESL cup winners?
Edit: Also, is anyone still owed money from a weekly ESL cup? Na/Eu doesn't matter just curious. Weekly not monthly finals btw. Thanks
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Seems to me that people are abusing sponsorship.
Several observations.
1) The people holding tournaments are not paying out because they've already spent the money and have no money to give to the winning players.
2) Players who have not received money in an allotted time should consider legal action.
3) Boycott tournaments who don't pay out and selfishly keep the money for themselves.
This thread needs to continue so that these people are held responsible for their actions.
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ESL (or better Turtle Entertainment) had a deficit of 2.8 mio Euros in 2009, so it doesn't wonder me that much, that at least with 2010 IEM/tourneys they were late on paying
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Hey Cloud.
i am representative and ceo of gaming insight. we are running the XMG GI Cup you mentioned in you very first post.
First of all, i´d like to point out that all of you guys definetly deserve your money, especially big companys should be able to pay this almost instantly, because prize money is almost always just a small piece of total event costs that come along with events of such a size.
You won 50 Euros at our XMG Gaming Insight SC2 Qualifier last saturday night, which is not even 48 hours ago right now. I got your paypal email adress in the logs and you paypal money has already been sent like all other winners of the qualifiers before got their money and all future winner will. Some days delay are due to the money transfers in the background and after all, it needs to be at least a working day for the guys in the office :D
We got all money and support from our sponsors XMG, Gameladen, Need for Seat and Steelseries in advance and will be able to give away that 1500Euros and the Notebook instantly in the final invitational tournament as well. So I would really appreciate if tournament holders gather their prize pool before holding the event itself, even thoug i know it is not always that easy to get some money in advance.
So i am totally with you guys, you deserve all that prize money! But after all please point out that XMG Gaming Insight does not owe you money, we pay our bills 
Cheers
Mike
Gaming Insight
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On November 01 2011 02:29 turamn wrote:
So, I hate to be this guy here, but if you know they have a record of not paying out, why do you participate? Is it a...well this the only stuff I can enter kind of deal, where you enter knowing that you may never get paid at all or what? It's easy for me to sit here and my 8-5 knowing that I'm going to get my salary no matter what, but it seems like it would be asking for it going into an event when they have a history of paying late / never.
Its their livelihood, if they can win it they need to try to play to make ends meet better.
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a good idea.. (besides many other needed changes) to the TL tournament tracker would be a 'rating' system.. where players that joined those events could rate each event (after completion).. on a few categories that are relevant to a successful tournament.
example: (keep the rating system simple!)
Tournament Rating: (1 being the lowest, 5 being the highest rating)
1. Production Value - 1,2,3,4,5
2. Administrative support - 1,2,3,4,5
3. Prizing clearly defined - 1,2,3,4,5
4. Tournament Structure/format - 1,2,3,4,5
5. Event Coverage and post coverage - 1,2,3,4,5
6. Website (user friendly, features, etc) - 1,2,3,4,5
7. Prizes paid within 3 months - 1,2,3,4,5
I think those are perfect ratings and if TL was to update their poorly laid out Tournament Tracker and included this rating system.. the Tournament Tracker would get a lot more use and be a lot more relevant on this site.
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On November 01 2011 02:21 BoomNasty wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 02:18 Boonbag wrote:
90 days is a very standard period
tbh people asking to be paid upfront are delusional and irrealistic
now 4 months + is just silly
agreed within 3 months is completely acceptable. I would not expect to be paid up front.
its treu that most companies pay for their goods to other companies in 90 days. But they just pay their personal each month, because people need that money to live. Proffesional gamers also need the money to live, so they need to get paid in less then a month.
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EPT
