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On November 01 2011 01:55 Waxangel wrote:
Playa Union :o
Far into the future.. 2016
"Breaking news coming into Sportscenter this morning. The Starcraft2 players union have begun a strike due to tournaments not paying out prize money in a timely fashion."
or
"Breaking news coming into Sportscenter this morning. The starcraft 2 team owners are locking out players due to contract disagreements"
Hope tournaments don't continue this. Hopefully as SC2 gets bigger tournaments are able to pay out in a timely manner.
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On November 01 2011 02:16 zachMEISTER wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 02:13 Carmac wrote:
For anyone asking:
Intel Extreme Masters is on schedule with prize money payouts. 2010/2011 is paid out. Next event to get paid out is the Cologne Global Challenge (either paid out or until 3 months after the event, which is in November). Guangzhou & New York Global Challenges will be paid out within 3 months of the respective event dates. Corporate Responsibility right there. Pat on the back Carmac.
....he said 2010/2011 is on schedule, not that they are paid out. What is the schedule like 1.5 years
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90 days is a very standard period
tbh people asking to be paid upfront are delusional and irrealistic
now 4 months + is just silly
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On November 01 2011 02:17 templar rage wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 02:08 iNcontroL wrote:
idra had to threaten to not play esl events any more to get paid for something he was owed over a year ago O_O I wonder how many players actually have the leverage to do this (assuming it worked for Idra)
I think ALL players have the leverage to do so. It's the players who make the tournament, not the prizemoney.
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On November 01 2011 02:18 VPGeneralHans wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 02:16 zachMEISTER wrote:On November 01 2011 02:13 Carmac wrote:
For anyone asking:
Intel Extreme Masters is on schedule with prize money payouts. 2010/2011 is paid out. Next event to get paid out is the Cologne Global Challenge (either paid out or until 3 months after the event, which is in November). Guangzhou & New York Global Challenges will be paid out within 3 months of the respective event dates. Corporate Responsibility right there. Pat on the back Carmac. ....he said 2010/2011 is on schedule, not that they are paid out. What is the schedule like 1.5 years
He said 2010/2011 is paid out ....
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yeah carmac is the one responsible only for IEM and he seems to do he's job very well
EPS and ESL events seem to be the problem
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wow, if you players just let the fans know, we wont watch tourneys that dont pay out ...
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On November 01 2011 02:18 Boonbag wrote:
90 days is a very standard period
tbh people asking to be paid upfront are delusional and irrealistic
now 4 months + is just silly
agreed within 3 months is completely acceptable. I would not expect to be paid up front.
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On November 01 2011 02:20 zachMEISTER wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 02:17 templar rage wrote:On November 01 2011 02:08 iNcontroL wrote:
idra had to threaten to not play esl events any more to get paid for something he was owed over a year ago O_O I wonder how many players actually have the leverage to do this (assuming it worked for Idra) I think ALL players have the leverage to do so. It's the players who make the tournament, not the prizemoney.
Idra had leverage to do that because he attract a big amount of viewers. Viewers attract sponsors.
No one gives a shit about watching joeschmoe. So no, not all players have the leverage/power to do so.
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I assume most people here on TL have heard of the CPL that was founded in 1997(cyberathlete professional league)? They were basically the epitome of western esports focusing mostly on games like CS and quake. The CPL collapsed (having since been purchased), and it was revealed that they owe hundreds of thousands of dollars in prize money that has been incurred over the course of the entire lifespan of CPL tournaments. Even to this day, CPL owes money to gamers from years ago.
tl;dr, this stuff is NOTHING new in esports. It's been happening since the infancy of esports.
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On November 01 2011 02:18 VPGeneralHans wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 02:16 zachMEISTER wrote:On November 01 2011 02:13 Carmac wrote:
For anyone asking:
Intel Extreme Masters is on schedule with prize money payouts. 2010/2011 is paid out. Next event to get paid out is the Cologne Global Challenge (either paid out or until 3 months after the event, which is in November). Guangzhou & New York Global Challenges will be paid out within 3 months of the respective event dates. Corporate Responsibility right there. Pat on the back Carmac. ....he said 2010/2011 is on schedule, not that they are paid out. What is the schedule like 1.5 years
"On Schedule" also means, "we're paying the players." Just because it hasn't been paid doesn't mean it won't. The fact that he gave an update on payouts is what I was referring to.
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That's unbelievable. I had no idea.
Especially that the problem is 1) so widespread and 2) affecting large, respected organisations like ESL and IPL.
Tournaments and organisations should be held accountable to pay out the promised money within a reasonable timeframe. Anything above 3 months should either be subject of a lawsuit or be linked to an additional fine. I do not care whether the tournament has problems getting the money from the sponsors in time - that is their responsibility. Either make sure that the money will be there or you can't advertise with these sums. At best, you're getting fined for false advertising, at worst you're going to jail because this is fraud.
We really do need a player union (not something like Kespa, but an organisation - like it exists in many other sports - which actually has the best interest of the players in mind) to step up. People are being taken advantage of here.
Big, big thanks to Cloud for speaking out on this, and the other pros (Darkforce, Satiini, Tyler, Thorzain et.al. ) for sharing their own experiences.
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On November 01 2011 02:17 coolphantom wrote:
this is so fustrating to hear about.These tourney make a shit load of money off players and don't pay them?!?!?!
You and other players should talk to a lawyer a sue these people.
umm.. they lose money every time. There is no 'real ROI' on players joining an event. Even the NASL Open Cup that asked for $$ to join.. probably lost money on this event. Yes.. they were taking $$ from players, but that money went directly back into the 'overhead' of their organization.
I am not sticking up for companies that do not pay out. I worked for GGL (Global Gaming League) for years.. and they certainly had their issues and it bothered me to no end. Being an admin of an event and having to constantly tell a player/team that the 'money was in the mail'... (while also telling them I was being told that.. but did not trust that myself).. was very trying and frustrating. BUT.. many of you need to step back.. and look at this from a business stand point and be a bit more understanding of the issue. Again.. it IS unacceptable in my opinion to have to wait longer then 6 months and it is certainly unacceptable to have to wait 1 day longer then what an organization 'promised' you.
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On November 01 2011 00:54 DarKFoRcE wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 00:52 GTR wrote:On November 01 2011 00:50 DarKFoRcE wrote:
One thing i am very happy about is that i have recently gotten my NASL Season 1 prizemoney, even though it was a bit later than promised, it still came relatively quickly, compared to many other events!
That's good to hear that you got your prize money from NASL. I was sceptic (and even called in to Weapon of Choice to discuss) whether if NASL would pay out their prize money (considering they sort of came out of nowhere announcing huge ass prizes). Yes, to be honest i was very skeptic aswell, until i had the money in my bankaccount like a week or two ago.
Thats good to hear. Organizations sure owe you guys a ton of money, is there no way to force them to give you the money. Would it be good if the organization was forced to sign a contract stating that the prize money would be given within a period of 3 or so months. If they refused the majority of players could just boycott, i think people would also stop watching if they knew that the organizations were so shady.
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On November 01 2011 02:20 RoyalCheese wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 02:18 VPGeneralHans wrote:On November 01 2011 02:16 zachMEISTER wrote:On November 01 2011 02:13 Carmac wrote:
For anyone asking:
Intel Extreme Masters is on schedule with prize money payouts. 2010/2011 is paid out. Next event to get paid out is the Cologne Global Challenge (either paid out or until 3 months after the event, which is in November). Guangzhou & New York Global Challenges will be paid out within 3 months of the respective event dates. Corporate Responsibility right there. Pat on the back Carmac. ....he said 2010/2011 is on schedule, not that they are paid out. What is the schedule like 1.5 years He said 2010/2011 is paid out ....
You are right, I misread it. But there is a dispute then cuz several players said they haven't
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I heard some players complain about that, but I had no idea this was such a big and widespread issue. I feel terrible for the players...
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It was well known that ESL, ESCW etc didn't payout prices and i'm not very surprised that some of the small tourneys doesn't pay out.
Huge surprise though that Dreamhack and IPL doesn't payout all the prize money.
MLG and GSL(?) seems to be the only big tournaments that legitimately pays out their prize money and in time
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I feel this is typical TL. I can feel greatly for players, but this is business and people need to treat it as much. I feel that players commented accordingly, but others did not.
Standard invoice time means nothing in todays economy, either you pay on time for special reasons, or you pay as late as you possibly can. This is how business works. If you cant manage to deal with that, than you need to study hard and get employed. (And this can be done even in ESports  )
And FXOpen said it best - if tournament has a bad reputation you dont support them, but players can play at their own risk.
Blacklisting, controlling organizations and other nonsense like that, is completely stone age BS. Last time anyone did this, they suffered revolution in 1989. If your contract cant hold out in court, then you are screwed and can rely only on inferior methods.
And about 2000 years ago somebody said, if you are pure at heart, then throw the stone.
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The 99% are waking up indeed.
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I'm guessing that the reason players don't file lawsuits over matters like this (and this definitely an opportunity a lawyer would jump for), is probably because the cost of litigation is more than it's worth.
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EPT
