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On October 30 2011 10:59 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 10:51 setzer wrote:
PrinceXizor, Flash started out going 15-3 as a professional and making the semi-finals of Daum beaing BISU. That you think it will take him years to compete against less talented people (no question Flash is the most talented RTS player right now) is pretty absurd and based on no factual evidence. i think that no matter the overall skill of a player, they will not be able to compete without experience. yeah flash started out really well, as a professional, but how long did he have to play BW before he became a professional, I doubt he just started playing when he got his license. I believe that, by the time flash switches, the top SC2 players will be younger players like MMA and Leenock, and not nestea/mvp. and that flash has been havign wrist issues for a while. so when flash switches/ if he ever does, players will have been practicing SC2 for 5+ years. i do not believe that flash can close that gap in under a year. no matter who he is. and by then flash will be older, 24-25, which in combination with his lack of experience will prevent him from dominating the scene in sc2. why is this so hard to understand for some people? yeah if flash switched today he would dominate, but he has no reason to and he won't he won't switch until it's the best career move for him to switch. btw i've watched BW for 5 years so i'm not just some new sc2 kid. ^^
You should check your facts before you start arguing with people who have some actual BW knowledge.
Flash got his progaming licence after a month of training. So yeah, he played BW casually for some time, then decided he's got the talent to become a pro, trained for a month and rocked his Courage, then posted good results in in-house rankings and got to the semis of OSL soon afterwards.
He's the most talented RTS player to ever exist. He could probably beat most BW progamers with his off-race after a week or two of preparation.
In a month's time he closed the gap between him - a rookie - and people who trained for years (in BW there are/were amateur teamhouses where people were preparing for Courage in a team environment, sort of like SC2 "pro teamhouses").
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On October 31 2011 00:50 Suisen wrote:
How can Blizzard ever dream to compete with Kespa on an equal footing? It isn't even close, Blizzard is tons behind western esports organizations who are tons behind Kespa.
It's not about SC BW vs SC2. If tomorrow Blizzard had to run SC BW tournaments and Kespa ran SC2 tournaments, guess which one would be the most popular?
I laugh at every example of Blizzard incompetence, and there are many.
I laugh at their failing tournaments. I laugh at their attempts to balance. I laugh at their PR. I laugh at how their game endings get leaked. I laugh at how Blizzard employers go behind Blizzard's back and sell illegally created runes and items to D2 item shops.
I laugh at how Blizzard failed to promote SC2 in Korea.
I laugh at how they promote homophobia and get crazy backlash.
People always point at Kespa and claim that SC BW players are slaves. But in the mean time SC2 players are nothing. They are just amateurs that have to scrape together the money, beg their parents or a team member that did happen to win a tournament, get a part time job or live on wellfare. And all the time we see how lazy foreign SC2 players are and how they don't practice.
In the mean time SC BW players are professionals with job security and support and infrastructure that for a SC2 player are hard to imagine. SC BW players just have it much better than SC2 players. And they need to do that with a game that is much much less marketable.
It's a miracle.
You realize that Blizzard made sc bw right? If anything Blizzard has proven that they can work with kespa, and other organisations, to make there game reach it's true potential.
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On October 31 2011 00:50 Suisen wrote:
How can Blizzard ever dream to compete with Kespa on an equal footing? It isn't even close, Blizzard is tons behind western esports organizations who are tons behind Kespa.
It's not about SC BW vs SC2. If tomorrow Blizzard had to run SC BW tournaments and Kespa ran SC2 tournaments, guess which one would be the most popular?
I laugh at every example of Blizzard incompetence, and there are many.
I laugh at their failing tournaments. I laugh at their attempts to balance. I laugh at their PR. I laugh at how their game endings get leaked. I laugh at how Blizzard employers go behind Blizzard's back and sell illegally created runes and items to D2 item shops.
I laugh at how Blizzard failed to promote SC2 in Korea.
I laugh at how they promote homophobia and get crazy backlash.
People always point at Kespa and claim that SC BW players are slaves. But in the mean time SC2 players are nothing. They are just amateurs that have to scrape together the money, beg their parents or a team member that did happen to win a tournament, get a part time job or live on wellfare. And all the time we see how lazy foreign SC2 players are and how they don't practice.
In the mean time SC BW players are professionals with job security and support and infrastructure that for a SC2 player are hard to imagine. SC BW players just have it much better than SC2 players. And they need to do that with a game that is much much less marketable.
It's a miracle.
And we laugh at you.
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Russian Federation473 Posts
The King is dead. Long live the King.
So sad it is, everything in this world has an end.
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Is there a post somewhere with the Korean netizen reaction?
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On October 31 2011 01:36 kilergrunt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2011 00:50 Suisen wrote:
How can Blizzard ever dream to compete with Kespa on an equal footing? It isn't even close, Blizzard is tons behind western esports organizations who are tons behind Kespa.
It's not about SC BW vs SC2. If tomorrow Blizzard had to run SC BW tournaments and Kespa ran SC2 tournaments, guess which one would be the most popular?
I laugh at every example of Blizzard incompetence, and there are many.
I laugh at their failing tournaments. I laugh at their attempts to balance. I laugh at their PR. I laugh at how their game endings get leaked. I laugh at how Blizzard employers go behind Blizzard's back and sell illegally created runes and items to D2 item shops.
I laugh at how Blizzard failed to promote SC2 in Korea.
I laugh at how they promote homophobia and get crazy backlash.
People always point at Kespa and claim that SC BW players are slaves. But in the mean time SC2 players are nothing. They are just amateurs that have to scrape together the money, beg their parents or a team member that did happen to win a tournament, get a part time job or live on wellfare. And all the time we see how lazy foreign SC2 players are and how they don't practice.
In the mean time SC BW players are professionals with job security and support and infrastructure that for a SC2 player are hard to imagine. SC BW players just have it much better than SC2 players. And they need to do that with a game that is much much less marketable.
It's a miracle. You realize that Blizzard made sc bw right? If anything Blizzard has proven that they can work with kespa, and other organisations, to make there game reach it's true potential.
I'm pretty sure they didn't work with Kespa at all with regards to BW. Not to mention that (as has been said) very few if any of the actual people responsible for making BW work at Blizzard anymore.
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On October 31 2011 02:04 croupier wrote:
Is there a post somewhere with the Korean netizen reaction?
Koreans are not that different from TL. BW vs SC2.
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On October 31 2011 01:29 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2011 01:27 Oktyabr wrote:On October 31 2011 00:50 Suisen wrote:
How can Blizzard ever dream to compete with Kespa on an equal footing? It isn't even close, Blizzard is tons behind western esports organizations who are tons behind Kespa.
It's not about SC BW vs SC2. If tomorrow Blizzard had to run SC BW tournaments and Kespa ran SC2 tournaments, guess which one would be the most popular?
I laugh at every example of Blizzard incompetence, and there are many.
I laugh at their failing tournaments. I laugh at their attempts to balance. I laugh at their PR. I laugh at how their game endings get leaked. I laugh at how Blizzard employers go behind Blizzard's back and sell illegally created runes and items to D2 item shops.
I laugh at how Blizzard failed to promote SC2 in Korea.
I laugh at how they promote homophobia and get crazy backlash.
People always point at Kespa and claim that SC BW players are slaves. But in the mean time SC2 players are nothing. They are just amateurs that have to scrape together the money, beg their parents or a team member that did happen to win a tournament, get a part time job or live on wellfare. And all the time we see how lazy foreign SC2 players are and how they don't practice.
In the mean time SC BW players are professionals with job security and support and infrastructure that for a SC2 player are hard to imagine. SC BW players just have it much better than SC2 players. And they need to do that with a game that is much much less marketable.
It's a miracle. You know Blizzard competes in developing games, right? and they should stick to doing just that,they should not control how their games should end up as esports.
agree
I dont like when people actually defend bad decisions.
if bw didnt have lan i doubt we could sit here and chat (bw scene in korea wouldnt exist)
even if today LAN is not as important as years ago, still its elementary tool for any serious esport and if people dont get it, than i dont know what to say.
We know that Blizzard takes revenue from >5000k tournaments, NO-LAN gives them full power to control the market and those tournaments, and its bad, they want to prevent what happened to BW, which ironically is what is driving their "Esports" succes now. . Kespa did enormous job to run the whole BW behind Blizzards back, people dont remember that what kespa was doing was for Korea only but the quality of their product was high enough that sites like teamliquid could be made.
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I hope there is a announcment in the near future, this discussion ist just a joke. All these BW-Elitists who still watch this 20yo game with 2 animations make this into a flamefest.
User was warned for this post
User was banned for this post.
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Are the BW pros really that good? I mean, are they really so good that some of them crossing over could generate an actual controversy?
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On October 31 2011 02:37 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
Are the BW pros really that good? I mean, are they really so good that some of them crossing over could generate an actual controversy?
Yes. They have much better micro than any Sc2 players simply because BW demanded more, they have much higher APM because BW demanded it, and they have perfected a method of training to overcome any weaknesses they might have. Compared to BW pros, our Sc2 pros are downright casual in the way they practice.
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On October 31 2011 02:37 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
Are the BW pros really that good? I mean, are they really so good that some of them crossing over could generate an actual controversy?
The average A-teamer on any BW team will make MVP and NesTea look average
The good ones can make them look like amateurs
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On October 31 2011 02:41 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2011 02:37 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
Are the BW pros really that good? I mean, are they really so good that some of them crossing over could generate an actual controversy? Yes. They have much better micro than any Sc2 players simply because BW demanded more, they have much higher APM because BW demanded it, and they have perfected a method of training to overcome any weaknesses they might have. Compared to BW pros, our Sc2 pros are downright casual in the way they practice.
True that. SC2 players like MVP, July, NaDa, Boxer don't even know what is it like to train like a real BW pro and lack apm/micro. If SC2 players train 8-10 hours a day, average BW pro trains 26 hours a day. It shows.
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*Metaphorically speaking ..
When did the creators of basketball, football or baseball wanted their game to be popular and be used by companies to promote their products and earn millions?
They never did.
On October 31 2011 02:46 Coeus1 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2011 02:41 Shiori wrote:On October 31 2011 02:37 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
Are the BW pros really that good? I mean, are they really so good that some of them crossing over could generate an actual controversy? Yes. They have much better micro than any Sc2 players simply because BW demanded more, they have much higher APM because BW demanded it, and they have perfected a method of training to overcome any weaknesses they might have. Compared to BW pros, our Sc2 pros are downright casual in the way they practice. True that. SC2 players like MVP, July, NaDa, Boxer don't even know what is it like to train like a real BW pro. If SC2 players train 8-10 hours a day, average BW pro trains 26 hours a day. It shows.
Also, every now and then they undergo shady surgery with their eyes and arms. I tell you, they get improvements from these surgery! That's what SC2 players also lack; Company backing.
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If that's true than I'm kind of pumped to see it. I don't know how much I believe it, but it would be pretty amazing to see someone that could run circles around the current SCII pros.
Maybe it's because I'm a silver-league-hero, but IMO you don't get much better than MVP, NesTea, or some of the others.
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I haven't read this whole thread. Is this the end of Professional Broodwar? If it is I am really truly crushed. I feel like I just lost a hobby 
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On October 31 2011 02:47 aimaimaim wrote:
*Metaphorically speaking ..
When did the creators of basketball, football or baseball wanted their game to be popular and be used by companies to promote their products and earn millions?
They never did.
The creators of those sports probably didn't hire large teams of programmers, artists, designers and graphics specialists.
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
On October 31 2011 02:46 Coeus1 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2011 02:41 Shiori wrote:On October 31 2011 02:37 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
Are the BW pros really that good? I mean, are they really so good that some of them crossing over could generate an actual controversy? Yes. They have much better micro than any Sc2 players simply because BW demanded more, they have much higher APM because BW demanded it, and they have perfected a method of training to overcome any weaknesses they might have. Compared to BW pros, our Sc2 pros are downright casual in the way they practice. True that. SC2 players like MVP, July, NaDa, Boxer don't even know what is it like to train like a real BW pro and lack apm/micro. If SC2 players train 8-10 hours a day, average BW pro trains 26 hours a day. It shows.
lol those sc2 players you just listed all started with bw. they definitely know what it is like to train like a real bw pro.
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On October 31 2011 01:36 kilergrunt wrote:
You realize that Blizzard made sc bw right? If anything Blizzard has proven that they can work with kespa, and other organisations, to make there game reach it's true potential.
blizzard did jack shit to help bw reach the status it's in right now.
the ladder ran on normal speed for the longest time. and the original ladder maps were not very good at all.
without the community it would've just been another RTS, but they worked hard to create maps, tools, rulesets, tournament formats, sponsorship etc etc etc etc. a lot of ideas were shamelessly stolen by blizzard for SC2.
they pretty much ignored the scene until 2007 when kespa made the decision to sell broadcasting rights at which point everyone began fighting over money.
On October 31 2011 02:37 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
Are the BW pros really that good? I mean, are they really so good that some of them crossing over could generate an actual controversy?
i'm not sure how well they can transition. maybe they'll all dominate. maybe they won't. we won't know till it happens.
but in terms of BW, everything they do is nothing short of amazing. a thread popped up:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=280281
i think in particular, the WCG vids showing Flash playing against a top foreigner just demonstrates total domination.
whenever i watch BW i'm impressed because a lot of the stuff they do, i feel like even if i practiced and practiced and practiced i would never be able to do it in an isolated training session let alone in a televised match.
so far, nothing in SC2 has given me that same impression. i understand that the game is still new but in its current state i don't want to watch it.
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EPT
