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On October 26 2011 07:07 Filter wrote:
TvP is already nearly impossible late game, Terran was trying to crush toss early and toss was going for late game, these changes just make that gap even bigger.
I don't get it.
Mass ghost is really difficult to deal with late game. As toss, you have to balance collosi and templar but once the T has 10+ ghosts, times get hard as everything gets EMPd.
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holy christ alive, I'm practically crying right now...
The PvT buff I was waiting for. Yeah the upgrades are nice, but late game emps needed some sort of nerf.. woooo!
And to those qqing about changes in upgrade cost, it really is a subtle change. Upgrades, conceptually, are meant for the late game and thus the cost is negligible in the long term. I believe it is more intended by Blizz to highlight double forge style play in PvT.
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On October 26 2011 07:05 Aesop wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 07:00 avilo wrote:On October 26 2011 06:54 Aesop wrote:
Reducing the upgrade cost isn't really an huge buff that will suddenly make all Protoss players upgrade more. Sure, Protoss get a discount of 375/375 in total and shields get more attractive, but it has no effect on your upgrading speed - the time is still the same and if you were basing your strategy on upgrades, you were getting those anyway and a small discount won't change that.
It just allows you to add a few extra units along the way (think 3 zealots and an archon), which is a subtle, suitable buff. I hope you're kidding. I dunno if you know the current meta game, but lots of protosses get 3/0/3 in like 15 minutes with double chrono forge build. This buff is going to make tvp ridiculous...@_@ That was just my point, people are getting these upgrades anyway already. So the timing needn't change a bit. Only now, when they have completed 3/3/3, they will have about 4 units more. Is that a huge buff?
Well it's more like the meta will shift to mass upgrades even though the patch isn't that good simply because people... are people. No one really ever got 3/3/3 from my recollection but now triple forge builds can be more popular so that before toss may have been 2/0/2 and now they will be 2/1/2 or 2/2/2.
Would like a zealot nerf though, more shields less health. Even by 10.
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Thank you Blizzard, in between this and the map pool changes I am finally starting to feel loved again. The upgrades is very nice but I am mostly very happy about the emp nerf, hopefully this will help balance PvT at a high level where the larger radius of emp and the ghost's range being longer then templar really made it difficult for a toss to use storms effectivly.
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this happens every patch.
OMG THIS UNIT IMBA
OMG BAD CHANGE GHOSTS SUCK NOW.
stop over-reacting lol protoss gets like 1 extra stalker now and 2-3 ghosts still emp ur entire army.
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w0000000000000000000000000000000tttttttttttt now gateways units arent as trashy now.
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Understandable changes definately. I think they should've kept dmg where it is, but armor/shields reduced. You need both to stay at same level with opposing races, why would armor have to cost the same? And plasma cost never made sense, even in sc1  I'd argue it's still overpriced, but better this than before.
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On October 26 2011 07:07 Demonhunter04 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 06:36 MenSol[ZerO] wrote:On October 26 2011 06:34 SpiZe wrote:
Cheaper upgrades comes from the fact that Toss doesn't benefit as the other race from ups, while roaches and marauders gets +2 by attack up, stalker only gets +1 what about zealot armour upgrades lol Zealots get 2 additional damage from attack upgrades, though.
They also get reduced by armor twice.
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United States7483 Posts
It's not like the cost decreases are that big folks, when you go up to 2/2 as protoss, it'll save you a whopping 50/50 (wow that's.... nothing?), and it'll save you 150/150 total when you go up to 3/3 weapons and armor (oooo, one zealot and one high templar). Nobody gets shield upgrades, because they just get EMP'd off anyway.
The EMP nerf is a bigger deal, and even that isn't that big a deal, terrans will have to make a couple more ghosts now.
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CHRISTMAS THE DAY OF RECKONING HAS COME.
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On October 26 2011 06:57 avilo wrote:
so protoss can get 3/0/3 in like 12-13 min now (don't quote me on that, just saying it will come much faster)...i don't think this will turn out well..
much faster? did you read the op?
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As a Terran i'm perfectly fine with the ghost emp nerf... it was NEEDED.
Furthermore, i can understand the shield upgrade cost decreasing but attack and armor too ... that seems to be an overreaction from blizzard.
With double forge protoss can get 3/3 far more quickly than any races and those upgrade affect all ground unit (Attack//Armor). I can't wait to see how this pan out in the PtR but for now I feel bad for the Zerg.
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On October 26 2011 07:09 laharl23 wrote:
this happens every patch.
OMG THIS UNIT IMBA
OMG BAD CHANGE GHOSTS SUCK NOW.
stop over-reacting lol protoss gets like 1 extra stalker now and 2-3 ghosts still emp ur entire army.
Reminds me of how so many zergs just stopped using infestors for a little bit because of that tiny nerf a while ago.
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Estonia373 Posts
Hm. Not exactly sure how the EMP nerf will play out. To my knowledge, it wasn't the lategame army battles where protoss was having trouble vs terran.
This will also mean that it's pretty much impossible to hit more than 2 infestors with a emp. :O
Shiled cost decrease seems cool, might add some new plays.
I really don't understand why should protoss attack/armor upgrades cost less than those of the other races tho.
I mean, protoss can get them faster to begin with.
Well, might not make a huge difference tho, and if it appeases some of the increasingly annoying protoss qq...
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helll yeahh!! love you blizzard hahaha
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i'm ok with the shield and the emp, but i don't quite get why getting cheaper upgrades AND chronoboosted? maybe to boost the gateway armies..but that does also involve colossi which are already pretty deadly especially vs zerg..i don't know, we'll see..
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I think the Ghost nerf is pretty much the same as the recent Infestor NP nerf. It's a really weird place to start, considering it may be the worst change they could have chosen. The facts that snipe exists as is and that ghosts have superior range are way bigger issues than EMP radius. Even specifically about EMP, I think either another damage nerf (to what IDK) or increasing the energy cost to 125 (since I don't think a single unit should be able to "bank" more than one of a spell that powerful) would be a much better nerf. I really don't see a ton changing with this one tbh, unless we get that nerf effect where people just go "OMG NERF, DO NOT WANT".
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On October 26 2011 07:09 wolfe wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 07:05 Aesop wrote:On October 26 2011 07:00 avilo wrote:On October 26 2011 06:54 Aesop wrote:
Reducing the upgrade cost isn't really an huge buff that will suddenly make all Protoss players upgrade more. Sure, Protoss get a discount of 375/375 in total and shields get more attractive, but it has no effect on your upgrading speed - the time is still the same and if you were basing your strategy on upgrades, you were getting those anyway and a small discount won't change that.
It just allows you to add a few extra units along the way (think 3 zealots and an archon), which is a subtle, suitable buff. I hope you're kidding. I dunno if you know the current meta game, but lots of protosses get 3/0/3 in like 15 minutes with double chrono forge build. This buff is going to make tvp ridiculous...@_@ That was just my point, people are getting these upgrades anyway already. So the timing needn't change a bit. Only now, when they have completed 3/3/3, they will have about 4 units more. Is that a huge buff? Well it's more like the meta will shift to mass upgrades even though the patch isn't that good simply because people... are people. No one really ever got 3/3/3 from my recollection but now triple forge builds can be more popular so that before toss may have been 2/0/2 and now they will be 2/1/2 or 2/2/2.
Triple forge build is the stupidest build ever,if it even exists.If you dumb your money into so many forges and upgrades you will have a huge army disadvantage or no money for a expo or probes.
Zerg would overrun you and terran just emp your shield upgrades away.
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I though they were going to reduce only shield upgrades... but I definitely like it.
Frankly all upgrades should get the same treatment.
Air upgrades for all races, or at least air armor definitely needs this, it's less useful than air attack in general and costs more. Additionally terran upgrades could require the fusion core for level 3, so upgrading a single path costs as much as before, but multiple paths will be cheaper(and terrans have the most upgrades). They could also put bio upgrades in the armory, it would be unique it will delay infantry upgrades, making terran bio less dominant in the early mid game(if the upgrades are moved to the armory, the fusion core requirement would probably be an overkill).
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On October 26 2011 07:06 corvaleur wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 07:03 Cloud9157 wrote:On October 26 2011 06:57 avilo wrote:
so protoss can get 3/0/3 in like 12-13 min now (don't quote me on that, just saying it will come much faster)...i don't think this will turn out well.. LOL, not that fast. If toss is just turtling and chronoing out upgrades that fast, go punish them with drops and attacks. It is really hard to drop against a turtling Protoss with spotting Pylons and not use your entire army in the drop.
Except that with double chrono forge, protoss is relying on FFs and you not atacking early. Terran will gain a macro advantage over double forge, its your job to punish it.
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EPT
