Honestly, I feel the whole 1a ticking time bomb can apply to a lot in sc2, Terran, Zerg, and protoss. This is something I really miss from BW, units like lurkers,defilers,arbiters, reavers, siege tanks and mines in BW had such insane dmg and abilities they took real micro, decision making, and strategy to deal with. Anyone who just all in attacked into them got screwed. It's just too easy to get certain units out and steam roll an enemy once you get a slight lead in SC2, this applies to all races. That's my opinion at least.
I have to disagree with this. I think micro is still really really important. I think SC2 has a good mix of those a-move units (which BW also had) und some tricky "micro-or-die" units such as ghosts (emp + snipe), HTs (storms + feedback), infestorts(burrow + fungal growth + infested terrans + neural parasite).
I don't think we have even seen players scratch the surface of sc2 micro yet.
[...]
Although I find archon/chargelot is the best answer for PvT now.
Lol ;D Not criticizing you, I just thought it was funny.
On December 10 2011 21:36 Hider wrote: FFs, who bumped this thread. So stupid. I just throught we would get a new PTR where terran would get there fully deserved buff.
and what buff would you suggest that is?
any buff to terran early game would certainly cause serious problems as terran is already capable of a ton of incredibly strong all ins.
just for kicks, i'd love it if they combined the +2 building armor/bunker upgrade into one
reaper speed to engine bay could also be nice. Im sure a couple zergs would disagree
I agree. Fixing the balance right now is really tough. Best short-term solution imo is revert EMP. TVP was never terran favored late game. If toss then would want another nerf to 1/1/1, i dont mind it.
Best long-term solution = Fix mech vs toss. However probably not gonna happen, and I dont think blizzard is gonna admit that that they made a clear mistake last patch and change emp back, so hence i quitted sc2. Its really not worth wasting time on tvp, when its so broken.
You quit starcraft because of the EMP nerf? Ouch... Doesn't that seem a bit harsh? Have a bit more faith in Blizz. They'll get it right eventually!
But likely not before hots. Terran hots units are all mech, so Blizzard is probably not going to touch mech until the expansion. Until then we're stuck with the powerful midgame-worthless lategame bio compositions.
Got Ultras? Np, I got Ghosts. Got Broodlords? Np, I got Ghosts. Got Infestors? Np, I got Ghosts. Got Overseers? Np, I got Ghosts. Got Mutas? Np, I got Ghosts. Got HTs? Np, I got Ghosts. Got DTs? Np, I got Ghosts. Got Immortals? Np, I got Ghosts. Got Sentries? Np, I got Ghosts. Got Phoenixes? Np, I got Ghosts. Got Zealots? Np, I got Ghosts.
So until other races get a unit that counters more than half of the other races complete arsenal, you please refrain from balance whining as a Terran.
This post is really silly.
What you said can also be applied to Hight Templars and Infestors.
Zergs crying about snipe is laughable, it takes 12 snipes to kill 1 ultralist, I would not call that a "counter".
LOL.Infestor counter pretty much almost all units?Are you dumb?Anyways, Ghost is a bit OP cuz of his snipe ability.Ghost itself counter BLs + Infestor.Blizzard will nerf their snipe ability by either increasing its energy cost or reducing its damage.
I am fine with its EMP ability though.We just have to spread our army better.
Of course you say that now, after EMP got a massive nerf haha
On December 11 2011 00:21 ZorBa.G wrote: I think it's quiet disgusting to see the attitude of the current Protoss players. It's as if they think this game owes them something!
Hoenstly, I've watched many matches of Jinro where he has actually been ahead of his Toss opponent but yet still gets rofl stomped by late game Toss and other games where he has JUST come out on top.
My translation of that post from Jinro is;
Leave the fucking MU as is. Because it's already next to impossible to beat a late game toss. Another nerf to Terrans and it's not even fucking worth spending such amounts of time on this race when you can just 1 A when playing the Toss race.
I can't see Terran getting a buff just because of the pure fact we would see more "QQ Terran imba" in these threads then we've ever seen.
I guess it's best just to leave it with Terrans knowing they are playing against a 1 A ticking time bomb.
@Lorch, it's very easy to say "wood league" doesn't matter. Enjoy your easy P v T wins champ, well deserved wins those are.
Wow, there's a Terran bonding party going on I guess. You rarely see them but now that Terran finally left their 65% edge and got into an unlucky 49% stick for once, they bond up and let everybody know it's WRONG! We had our 65% edge for only a couple of months. Now protoss is having 54% edge for a few weeks and... it's WRONG!
I like how you don't mention the current T v P win rate percentages.
But you know what, on behalf of Starcraft 2 I would like to award you with a Protoss badge with the motto of "Easy wins, Hell it's about time!"
I like how you don't mention the current T v P win rate percentages.
Now protoss is having 54% edge for a few weeks
-Amazing reading comperhension. Amazingly bad. Terran had 1-1-1 where you sit on 1base with 65% winrate. Protoss has 54% winrate mainly cause of going to the lategame which actually requires, you know. Multi tasking. Micro. Skills. All of those things you don't need when you execute your 1-1-1 And yet you sit there saying "finally free wins for protoss", do you know what the word "free" means? Free according to the dictionary of starcraft is 1-1-1. Not working hard for your wins with near 50% winpercentage, no that's not it.
On December 11 2011 00:21 ZorBa.G wrote: I think it's quiet disgusting to see the attitude of the current Protoss players. It's as if they think this game owes them something!
Hoenstly, I've watched many matches of Jinro where he has actually been ahead of his Toss opponent but yet still gets rofl stomped by late game Toss and other games where he has JUST come out on top.
My translation of that post from Jinro is;
Leave the fucking MU as is. Because it's already next to impossible to beat a late game toss. Another nerf to Terrans and it's not even fucking worth spending such amounts of time on this race when you can just 1 A when playing the Toss race.
I can't see Terran getting a buff just because of the pure fact we would see more "QQ Terran imba" in these threads then we've ever seen.
I guess it's best just to leave it with Terrans knowing they are playing against a 1 A ticking time bomb.
@Lorch, it's very easy to say "wood league" doesn't matter. Enjoy your easy P v T wins champ, well deserved wins those are.
Wow, there's a Terran bonding party going on I guess. You rarely see them but now that Terran finally left their 65% edge and got into an unlucky 49% stick for once, they bond up and let everybody know it's WRONG! We had our 65% edge for only a couple of months. Now protoss is having 54% edge for a few weeks and... it's WRONG!
-Amazing reading comperhension. Amazingly bad. Terran had 1-1-1 where you sit on 1base with 65% winrate. Protoss has 54% winrate mainly cause of going to the lategame which actually requires, you know. Multi tasking. Micro. Skills. All of those things you don't need when you execute your 1-1-1 And yet you sit there saying "finally free wins for protoss", do you know what the word "free" means? Free according to the dictionary of starcraft is 1-1-1. Not working hard for your wins with near 50% winpercentage, no that's not it.
Man, I don't know about this. It doesn't seem very difficult to FFE and sit on two bases until the "late game". From any matches I've watched, it seems a 1-1-1 requires more micro than expanding to a natural 2 feet away and waiting for the deathball to arrive.
Not that I think a 1-1-1 requires heaps of skill. I just don't see how it follows that a longer game equals more talent when 90% of the time is spent turtling.
On December 11 2011 00:53 ZorBa.G wrote: For what it's worth;
The problem I find this that many Terrans never realized just how powerful late game Protoss really was. Due to how strong Terran might of been early - mid game (they were winning games before it even got to the later stages of the game). Now that strength of Terran has been nerfed quiet a lot, it's much easier for a Protoss to propel themselves into the late game.
Hence, it's now starting to stick out like dog shit just how hard it is for a Terran to deal with a late game Toss. My personal view on this is, if Blizzard is going to make it that much easier for a Protoss to get themselves into the late game, they also need to consider what tools Terran can utilize in the late game...... because BIO is just not the answer.
Ghost Mech is the answer to late game TvP
So, what part of ghost mech counters 3-3 chargelots? And at what point does Terran transition upgrades from bio to mech? There's no way mech can compete with 3-3 Protoss ground without 3-3 as well, but it's hard enough to keep bio on level with Protoss upgrades...
On December 11 2011 01:53 DwmC_Foefen wrote: Tanks should be 2 pop like in BW?
I honestly feel like that is a brilliant solution. It wouldn't make timings anymore powerful, because gas is the limiting factor in tank production. But a maxed terran mech army would be a bit more powerful, which I feel is needed.
On December 11 2011 01:53 DwmC_Foefen wrote: Tanks should be 2 pop like in BW?
I honestly feel like that is a brilliant solution. It wouldn't make timings anymore powerful, because gas is the limiting factor in tank production. But a maxed terran mech army would be a bit more powerful, which I feel is needed.
Would prob make tanks too strong in tvz. But i guess you then could make a case for icnreasing the food cost of ghost from 2 to 3 combined with the tank food decrease.
Prob a decent simple solution to buffing mech in tvp without messing up balance in other mus.
On December 11 2011 00:21 ZorBa.G wrote: I think it's quiet disgusting to see the attitude of the current Protoss players. It's as if they think this game owes them something!
Hoenstly, I've watched many matches of Jinro where he has actually been ahead of his Toss opponent but yet still gets rofl stomped by late game Toss and other games where he has JUST come out on top.
My translation of that post from Jinro is;
Leave the fucking MU as is. Because it's already next to impossible to beat a late game toss. Another nerf to Terrans and it's not even fucking worth spending such amounts of time on this race when you can just 1 A when playing the Toss race.
I can't see Terran getting a buff just because of the pure fact we would see more "QQ Terran imba" in these threads then we've ever seen.
I guess it's best just to leave it with Terrans knowing they are playing against a 1 A ticking time bomb.
@Lorch, it's very easy to say "wood league" doesn't matter. Enjoy your easy P v T wins champ, well deserved wins those are.
Wow, there's a Terran bonding party going on I guess. You rarely see them but now that Terran finally left their 65% edge and got into an unlucky 49% stick for once, they bond up and let everybody know it's WRONG! We had our 65% edge for only a couple of months. Now protoss is having 54% edge for a few weeks and... it's WRONG!
I like how you don't mention the current T v P win rate percentages.
But you know what, on behalf of Starcraft 2 I would like to award you with a Protoss badge with the motto of "Easy wins, Hell it's about time!"
I like how you don't mention the current T v P win rate percentages.
Now protoss is having 54% edge for a few weeks
-Amazing reading comperhension. Amazingly bad. Terran had 1-1-1 where you sit on 1base with 65% winrate. Protoss has 54% winrate mainly cause of going to the lategame which actually requires, you know. Multi tasking. Micro. Skills. All of those things you don't need when you execute your 1-1-1 And yet you sit there saying "finally free wins for protoss", do you know what the word "free" means? Free according to the dictionary of starcraft is 1-1-1. Not working hard for your wins with near 50% winpercentage, no that's not it.
Man, I don't know about this. It doesn't seem very difficult to FFE and sit on two bases until the "late game". From any matches I've watched, it seems a 1-1-1 requires more micro than expanding to a natural 2 feet away and waiting for the deathball to arrive.
Not that I think a 1-1-1 requires heaps of skill. I just don't see how it follows that a longer game equals more talent when 90% of the time is spent turtling.
Link me a game where Protoss turtles on 2 base to a deathball and wins.
On December 11 2011 00:53 ZorBa.G wrote: For what it's worth;
The problem I find this that many Terrans never realized just how powerful late game Protoss really was. Due to how strong Terran might of been early - mid game (they were winning games before it even got to the later stages of the game). Now that strength of Terran has been nerfed quiet a lot, it's much easier for a Protoss to propel themselves into the late game.
Hence, it's now starting to stick out like dog shit just how hard it is for a Terran to deal with a late game Toss. My personal view on this is, if Blizzard is going to make it that much easier for a Protoss to get themselves into the late game, they also need to consider what tools Terran can utilize in the late game...... because BIO is just not the answer.
Ghost Mech is the answer to late game TvP
So, what part of ghost mech counters 3-3 chargelots? And at what point does Terran transition upgrades from bio to mech? There's no way mech can compete with 3-3 Protoss ground without 3-3 as well, but it's hard enough to keep bio on level with Protoss upgrades...
I mean if we're theorycrafting then Hellion/Ghost kills zealots pretty fast since Zealots are light. That doesn't mean it is a good idea to go Ghost/Mech, just that there is an answer if you are looking for it.
On December 11 2011 00:21 ZorBa.G wrote: I think it's quiet disgusting to see the attitude of the current Protoss players. It's as if they think this game owes them something!
Hoenstly, I've watched many matches of Jinro where he has actually been ahead of his Toss opponent but yet still gets rofl stomped by late game Toss and other games where he has JUST come out on top.
My translation of that post from Jinro is;
Leave the fucking MU as is. Because it's already next to impossible to beat a late game toss. Another nerf to Terrans and it's not even fucking worth spending such amounts of time on this race when you can just 1 A when playing the Toss race.
I can't see Terran getting a buff just because of the pure fact we would see more "QQ Terran imba" in these threads then we've ever seen.
I guess it's best just to leave it with Terrans knowing they are playing against a 1 A ticking time bomb.
@Lorch, it's very easy to say "wood league" doesn't matter. Enjoy your easy P v T wins champ, well deserved wins those are.
Wow, there's a Terran bonding party going on I guess. You rarely see them but now that Terran finally left their 65% edge and got into an unlucky 49% stick for once, they bond up and let everybody know it's WRONG! We had our 65% edge for only a couple of months. Now protoss is having 54% edge for a few weeks and... it's WRONG!
I like how you don't mention the current T v P win rate percentages.
But you know what, on behalf of Starcraft 2 I would like to award you with a Protoss badge with the motto of "Easy wins, Hell it's about time!"
I like how you don't mention the current T v P win rate percentages.
Now protoss is having 54% edge for a few weeks
-Amazing reading comperhension. Amazingly bad. Terran had 1-1-1 where you sit on 1base with 65% winrate. Protoss has 54% winrate mainly cause of going to the lategame which actually requires, you know. Multi tasking. Micro. Skills. All of those things you don't need when you execute your 1-1-1 And yet you sit there saying "finally free wins for protoss", do you know what the word "free" means? Free according to the dictionary of starcraft is 1-1-1. Not working hard for your wins with near 50% winpercentage, no that's not it.
Man, I don't know about this. It doesn't seem very difficult to FFE and sit on two bases until the "late game". From any matches I've watched, it seems a 1-1-1 requires more micro than expanding to a natural 2 feet away and waiting for the deathball to arrive.
Not that I think a 1-1-1 requires heaps of skill. I just don't see how it follows that a longer game equals more talent when 90% of the time is spent turtling.
Oh, I'm sorry. You must have missunderstood. We're not talking about bronze league here, buddy. Forge Fast Expand in PvT and then turtle on 2bases? Do you really... lose to that? That's like beyond bronze lol dang.
On December 11 2011 00:53 ZorBa.G wrote: For what it's worth;
The problem I find this that many Terrans never realized just how powerful late game Protoss really was. Due to how strong Terran might of been early - mid game (they were winning games before it even got to the later stages of the game). Now that strength of Terran has been nerfed quiet a lot, it's much easier for a Protoss to propel themselves into the late game.
Hence, it's now starting to stick out like dog shit just how hard it is for a Terran to deal with a late game Toss. My personal view on this is, if Blizzard is going to make it that much easier for a Protoss to get themselves into the late game, they also need to consider what tools Terran can utilize in the late game...... because BIO is just not the answer.
Ghost Mech is the answer to late game TvP
So, what part of ghost mech counters 3-3 chargelots? And at what point does Terran transition upgrades from bio to mech? There's no way mech can compete with 3-3 Protoss ground without 3-3 as well, but it's hard enough to keep bio on level with Protoss upgrades...
Chargelots close on helions instantly and will melt but the splash damage from that will also knock off alot of your helions, add the fact that his ranged units will be potshotting at this point.
Blink stalkers will blink on top of tanks which as you know will shred them, if he has immortals its a bonus.
Since you have ghosts storms and archons shouldnt be a HUGE thing to deal with, but a archon can take 10 tank shots to kill if you dont EMP it.
The whole reason bio can fight the deathball is that you can micro away...not really possible with mech.
Storms will also melt fixed tank lines which cant avoid them.
"Tanks should be 2 pop like in BW?" Madness. The only way in which terran armies might not feel strong enough in late game would be against protoss, but you allowing even more tanks on the battlefield at once would be a good solution? You know they already fire about 38.8% faster than they used to, right? With their 13 range and mass splash damage, I think 3 supply per tank works well for this game.
And yet you sit there saying "finally free wins for protoss", do you know what the word "free" means? Free according to the dictionary of starcraft is 1-1-1. Not working hard for your wins with near 50% winpercentage, no that's not it.
631
EPT
