EPTSituation Report: Patch 1.4, Blizz's Explanations - Page 21
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SilverforceX
Australia267 Posts
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Fig
United States1324 Posts
On September 25 2011 08:53 Zorgaz wrote: Actually the race i play when i want to chill is Protoss. And all my newbie buddies choose the race because it was the easiest race for them to play around with. Not that it matters really, but just saying that a-moving zealot is way ''more chill'' then kiting with the marine  I agree with alot, but wtf is this about complaining about the addon swaps?! Their brilliant and make for really refined and cool build! I'd say they are one of the things Blizzard did good. It's better adding something to the other races then taking away what's already good just because you think it's to versatile. I agree with bringing the other races up to par with building versatility. Maybe in HotS you will be able to burrow zerg buildings and warp toss buildings to other places on the map within pylon power when they are being chronoboosted! (this would cancel the upgrade/unit though) Or maybe just hardened shields for buildings! | ||
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longtang
United States73 Posts
On September 24 2011 18:57 Lorch wrote: Now that we start complaing about marauders (yay easily the most unterran unit in the game) why don't we complain about the zerg dragoon aswell? The fucking roach, hard to kill and the reason why we don't see any hydralisk (though based upon broodwar thats the zergiest unit beside the ling). Colossi are a joke compared to reavers, they don't requiere much micro, can't be used for harras and, to make it even better, are the main reason why noone even tries to build carriers. One thing that not enough people talk about (imo) is the fact that dts requier their own building. WTF went wrong there at blizzard? You know if I could actually make HTs and DTs with the same building going dts in the first place wouldn't be the huge investement it is, yes you'd still pay 375 gas for 3 dts, but you wouldn't pay 250 for a almost useless tech path if it doesn't work. Plus wtf happened to dark archons? The fact that the mothership is just a raped version of the arbiter doesn't need to be discussed, I'm still amazed whenever I see arbiters in bw, and thinking about the mothership as the sc2 equivelent makes me really sad  Talking about shit that makes me sad, why the fuck can terran suddenly swap around addons as they please? I think thats part of the reason why terran is that versatile and can transition that well into different stuff. I really hope we get to see individual addons for each production facility again like in bw. DT's are the most ridiculous unit, you moron. Why would Bliz give you a unit that everytime that one is made, it automatically pays for itself? u re bitching about a unit that gives All Terrans headaches and you want it to be easier to get DT's? R U an A-hole? A scan cost 240. A DT is cheaper than 240. So, everytime you make one and move it around and a terran has to scan, he is wasting 240. And you don't even had to kill anything. Just by virtual that one is made, you have already paid for the cost of the DT because it costs the terran a scan. Moron. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
On September 25 2011 09:13 BurningSera wrote: i now really believe sc2 balance team is consisted of no more than 2 people XD Well, Incontrol sounded serious when he was talking to Idra about that. ;o | ||
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terranghost
United States980 Posts
On September 25 2011 11:13 longtang wrote: DT's are the most ridiculous unit, you moron. Why would Bliz give you a unit that everytime that one is made, it automatically pays for itself? u re bitching about a unit that gives All Terrans headaches and you want it to be easier to get DT's? R U an A-hole? A scan cost 240. A DT is cheaper than 240. So, everytime you make one and move it around and a terran has to scan, he is wasting 240. And you don't even had to kill anything. Just by virtual that one is made, you have already paid for the cost of the DT because it costs the terran a scan. Moron. User was temp banned for this post. It stuff like this that is misstated all the time their is a difference between Cost and Opportunity Cost. The scan does NOT cost 240 minerals (or 300 or 270 or whatever other number you wish to say). Blizzard was nice enough to give us a counter at the top of our screen that shows us how many minerals you have. When you scan that counter does not suddenly display 240 less minerals. That is because the scan does not cost 240minerals it costs 50 energy and you can opt to either summon a scan, a supply drop, mule, or nothing and let it build depending on the situation. If a dt gets into your base and you did not scout the tech out or forgot a turret at an expo. You are scanning not the opportunity cost is either a unit that mines 240 minerals or permanently lost mining time at a base until you can finish a turret or get a raven there. Also on top of that with the exception of dt rush when dts start to make their appearance it seems to be at a point where terrans would rather save energy for 1-2 scans to allow for better positioning on the battlefield or a more effective drop or what have you. The stuff mentioned in this report dont really seem like a surprise. For the most part Im sure even the average player could of deduced some of this. The only thing I don't understand is the mothership change as even blizzard seemed to say that the mothership was not intended for competitive play. Not saying the carrier did or did not need a change but... it seems odd that the the mothership was changed. | ||
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Kuja
United States1759 Posts
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Raiznhell
Canada786 Posts
Will be beautiful to see some interesting Mech builds come out of players like MMA, MVP and Bomber. Although Mech will never be useful in TvP without a spider-mine LIKE mechanic that isn't the spider mine itself because of Chargelots (simply a mechanic to help keep Zealots away that isn't just throwing hellions in front of them because hellions evaporate at the start of a fight too easily ATM because of the Collosus) TvT is similar to BW and awesome, TvZ is similar to BW and awesome, TvP is actually just really stupid to watch and always has been but I always watch every TvP hoping a Terran will use Mech but every time they do they just get 1a'd through (with the exception of Jinro vs MC where MC played the worst Protoss I've ever seen before >.>) People site GoOdy as a good source of Mech play vs Protoss but everyone knows it's not the same as watching Flash in BW straight up dominate a Protoss with a 2:1 upgrade timing attack where it seemed there was nothing the Protoss could do. GoOdy doesn't defeat the Protoss, he bores them out of the game. Which is pretty much what Mech does to Toss if Mech is able to win without the Protoss playing stupidly (ie: Byun vs Oz where Oz for some dumb reason tries to base race instead of just killing the attack on his Nat with a good flank...>.>) | ||
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
On September 25 2011 14:10 Raiznhell wrote: The best patch ever will be the patch where the Marauder is removed and then we can finally see the true magic of what SMART Terran players can actually come up with in TvP. Will be beautiful to see some interesting Mech builds come out of players like MMA, MVP and Bomber. Although Mech will never be useful in TvP without a spider-mine LIKE mechanic that isn't the spider mine itself because of Chargelots (simply a mechanic to help keep Zealots away that isn't just throwing hellions in front of them because hellions evaporate at the start of a fight too easily ATM because of the Collosus) TvT is similar to BW and awesome, TvZ is similar to BW and awesome, TvP is actually just really stupid to watch and always has been but I always watch every TvP hoping a Terran will use Mech but every time they do they just get 1a'd through (with the exception of Jinro vs MC where MC played the worst Protoss I've ever seen before >.>) People site GoOdy as a good source of Mech play vs Protoss but everyone knows it's not the same as watching Flash in BW straight up dominate a Protoss with a 2:1 upgrade timing attack where it seemed there was nothing the Protoss could do. GoOdy doesn't defeat the Protoss, he bores them out of the game. Which is pretty much what Mech does to Toss if Mech is able to win without the Protoss playing stupidly (ie: Byun vs Oz where Oz for some dumb reason tries to base race instead of just killing the attack on his Nat with a good flank...>.>) Removing marauders would be too huge of a change and would wreck Terran (and I main as Protoss, mind you). But yeah, when I think if Marauders, I think of the Ubersoldaten from Return to Castle Wolfenstein, or a fast-running version of the Tanks from Quake 2 (despite the name, they're actually heavy infantry, not vehicles). Marauders are pretty beastly O_O. | ||
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dbddbddb
Singapore969 Posts
On September 25 2011 14:14 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: Removing marauders would be too huge of a change and would wreck Terran (and I main as Protoss, mind you). But yeah, when I think if Marauders, I think of the Ubersoldaten from Return to Castle Wolfenstein, or a fast-running version of the Tanks from Quake 2 (despite the name, they're actually heavy infantry, not vehicles). Marauders are pretty beastly O_O. Marauders are like the dragoons of TvP | ||
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Fig
United States1324 Posts
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Brotocol
243 Posts
I think Blizzard completely missed that design element when it came to the units, even though they kept the hick part for the campaign mode. Space prisoners shouldn't have combat shields. The entire point of these guys is you're sending them out to clean up, hick style. They're not like, highly trained precision operatives. Terran is supposed to look like an amateur hour operation compared to Zerg and Protoss, which somehow works out because of human ingenuity. There are too many immaculate, state of the art units in the Terran arsenal. Stuff like Marauders and Thor are too high tech. Humans are not supposed to rival Protoss in 1 on 1. Terran solutions are supposed to be tricky stuff like spider mines or sci vessel. There's nothing like a good old radiation blast to clear out some alien workers. This total disregard for the concept behind each race has resulted in balance issues like Terran and Zerg having more "Protoss-y" units than Protoss. I hope that in HotS Marauders and Roaches get relegated to higher tech paths, and that Hydralisks become a staple unit again. | ||
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razy
Russian Federation899 Posts
On September 25 2011 15:03 Brotocol wrote: Terran is supposed to be about hick humans using scrappy units with tacky design to make aliens dance like varmints. This is done while chugging down a beer. I think Blizzard completely missed that design element when it came to the units, even though they kept the hick part for the campaign mode. Space prisoners shouldn't have combat shields. The entire point of these guys is you're sending them out to clean up, hick style. They're not like, highly trained precision operatives. Terran is supposed to look like an amateur hour operation compared to Zerg and Protoss, which somehow works out because of human ingenuity. There are too many immaculate, state of the art units in the Terran arsenal. Stuff like Marauders and Thor are too high tech. Humans are not supposed to rival Protoss in 1 on 1. Terran solutions are supposed to be tricky stuff like spider mines or sci vessel. There's nothing like a good old radiation blast to clear out some alien workers. This total disregard for the concept behind each race has resulted in balance issues like Terran and Zerg having more "Protoss-y" units than Protoss. I hope that in HotS Marauders and Roaches get relegated to higher tech paths, and that Hydralisks become a staple unit again. This were exactly my thoughts when i first saw sc2 in action. Hihi to roach, marauder and collosi =_= | ||
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Telcontar
United Kingdom16710 Posts
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Lmui
Canada6219 Posts
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Raiznhell
Canada786 Posts
On September 25 2011 14:23 Fig wrote: Well marauders are the reason we don't see tanks in TvP outside of the 1-1-1. At the moment, no one uses mech simply because mmm is better. I don't think anyone can say for sure that mech does not work vs toss. And I'm not saying only make hellion/tank/thor because obviously that loses to voidrays. You would definitely have to have either marine support or probably the best choice is just vikings. It would be an interesting experiment if they changed marauders into a unit that focused on tanking and slowing units, but did not do nearly as much damage. Well I use Vikings as support to my tanks when I Mech in TvP the problem is when is there too many vikings? With tanks being 3 supply and costing more gas whilst doing less damage per shot and having less defense for them it seems like if you skimp at all with ground forces when Meching (or even when you don't skimp at all) you simply get rolled half the time by either too much air for your vikings or having not enough ground power at all. | ||
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Fig
United States1324 Posts
On September 25 2011 15:43 Raiznhell wrote: Well I use Vikings as support to my tanks when I Mech in TvP the problem is when is there too many vikings? With tanks being 3 supply and costing more gas whilst doing less damage per shot and having less defense for them it seems like if you skimp at all with ground forces when Meching (or even when you don't skimp at all) you simply get rolled half the time by either too much air for your vikings or having not enough ground power at all. That's a good point. It's good for the game if terran needs to constantly scout to make the right amount of vikings for the engagement. They already do need to when fighting colossi though, so it shouldn't be any different in that respect. At the moment the bulk of a TvP army is marines and marauders, which cost 0 and 25 gas respectively. That allows for them to have more gas for other things than a protoss does, or just allows them to survive off of fewer bases since they don't need as much gas. I think it would be more interesting if the race was taxed more on gas than they are at the moment. Because right now terrans seem to just mass ghosts with their left over gas and blanket EMP the toss army, which is just mean. | ||
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LeibSaiLeib
173 Posts
On September 25 2011 10:20 TheBlueMeaner wrote: Thanks for the reminder, I really miss the times where killing a mineral line required SKILL. That micro you see there, there is nothing similar in starcraft 2, blue flame hellions are easy to use at all skill levels, that is the consecuence of the game being newbie friendly. Blue flame hellions should require huge skill to pull off great rewards... lol the point was complete opposite, in sc1 vultures could clean up full mineral lines too (thou you needed some skill), how often you saw flashes vultures going to base and cleaning all probes, alot. but still, people adjusted temselves. (vultures are way faster then helions) | ||
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emc
United States3088 Posts
They should just remove conc shells | ||
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RavenLoud
Canada1100 Posts
Give marauders an upgrade for +50 health or something, they should not stim. They already beat stalkers and roaches without stim as is. EDIT: I think conc. shell is necessary to stay alive vs. early zealot pressure without having to build bunkers. Removing it isn't a very good idea imo. | ||
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
i thought the immortal buff was a nerf to marauders | ||
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