EPTFighting!
Situation Report: Patch 1.4, Blizz's Explanations - Page 19
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SilverPotato
United States560 Posts
Fighting! | ||
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GinDo
3327 Posts
On September 24 2011 09:09 Ballistixz wrote: build time decreased to 50 was actually a very good choice in buffing. but its not gonna make ultras that much more useful. the main problem with ultras is that they are a resource hog. they drain minerals/gass in a instant and on top of that they get killed at by insanely cost effecient units like immortals or siege tanks. even ghosts are pretty good against ultras because of snipes. what ultras really need is a decrease in cost. maybe 200 minerals 200 gas or something. The issue with Ultras is that their armored and Marauders crap on everything armored. Not buff is gonna change that. And even if you buffed their attack and lowered their cost Maruaders would kite them to death.+ Show Spoiler + God I hate Marauders. And I'm Terran. I really wish the marauder was nerfed but that's just me.Except Blizzard will never do that because it would make TvP Mech and they repeatedly stated that they didn't want that because that is what made Terran difficult for casuals in BW. I play Terran And I haven't made a marauder since Beta unless I was 3 raxing. | ||
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Toadvine
Poland2234 Posts
On September 24 2011 11:53 BrosephBrostar wrote: What is the immortal actually good at taking hits from though? Look at how hardened shields affects different attacks: Tank: 50>10 (40 less) Thor: 60>20 (40 less) Marauder: 20>10 (10 less) Stalker: 14>10 (4 less) Immortal: 50>10 (40 less) Colossus: 30>20 (10 less) Roach: 16>10 (6 less) Ultralisk: 35>10 (25 less) I definitely don't see it as a coincidence that the only things hardened shields have a significant effect on are terran mech units. Hey, I never said they were successful.  The problem with Immortals is that the idea of a unit that is supposed to tank damage, but only from specific sources, like Tanks or Ultras, is just too narrow. The unit ends up being too specialized, and not versatile enough, in an engagement between actual armies. That's why the Immortal ended up being used for it's huge damage against armored first and foremost, and the designers are embracing this fact by buffing the range. On September 24 2011 12:33 GinDo wrote: The issue with Ultras is that their armored and Marauders crap on everything armored. Not buff is gonna change that. And even if you buffed their attack and lowered their cost Maruaders would kite them to death.+ Show Spoiler + God I hate Marauders. And I'm Terran. I really wish the marauder was nerfed but that's just me.Except Blizzard will never do that because it would make TvP Mech and they repeatedly stated that they didn't want that because that is what made Terran difficult for casuals in BW. I play Terran And I haven't made a marauder since Beta unless I was 3 raxing. You know, I really don't get that train of thought. They say that, but they ended up making SC2 Zerg the BW Terran, in the sense that the entry barrier is a lot higher than for the other races, and it's very easy to lose to players much worse than yourself. Also, Mech being hard in BW doesn't mean it would be hard in SC2. Somehow, TvT being mech didn't produce a mass exodus of Terran players, terrified at the prospect of having to position their Tanks well and simcity bases against Hellions. | ||
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Cabinet Sanchez
Australia1097 Posts
On September 23 2011 16:05 Sapphire.lux wrote: Is this c&c influence or something for not liking positioning based play? I agree with Artosis on the Marauders. In fact, Marauders are the worst thing that happened in SC2. We have Protoss, Zerg and Space Marines. T_T What did Artosis say about Marauders and when? Anyone hating on Marauders are ok by me :/ | ||
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Weebem-Na
United States221 Posts
I would've voted for carriers as far as my play goes, but Mothership buff makes for some sweet pro matches so I'm cool with it. | ||
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BrosephBrostar
United States445 Posts
On September 24 2011 12:59 Cabinet Sanchez wrote: What did Artosis say about Marauders and when? Anyone hating on Marauders are ok by me :/ he's constantly shitting on them (and colossus) for being "skill-less attack move units" and has said that he doesn't play terran in sc2 because he doesn't want to use them. | ||
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captainwaffles
United States1050 Posts
On September 24 2011 12:33 GinDo wrote: The issue with Ultras is that their armored and Marauders crap on everything armored. Not buff is gonna change that. And even if you buffed their attack and lowered their cost Maruaders would kite them to death.+ Show Spoiler + God I hate Marauders. And I'm Terran. I really wish the marauder was nerfed but that's just me.Except Blizzard will never do that because it would make TvP Mech and they repeatedly stated that they didn't want that because that is what made Terran difficult for casuals in BW. I play Terran And I haven't made a marauder since Beta unless I was 3 raxing. When did blizzard say that bit about mech and bw with the casuals? I'm very curious. | ||
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captainwaffles
United States1050 Posts
On September 24 2011 14:39 BrosephBrostar wrote: he's constantly shitting on them (and colossus) for being "skill-less attack move units" and has said that he doesn't play terran in sc2 because he doesn't want to use them. Yeah, he is very right on that too, just speaking objectively about the marauder... you can kite but beyond this clicking and a moving across the screen (fucking absolutely boring micro) there is very little to the unit. I've been marauder clean for several months now. | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On September 24 2011 12:33 GinDo wrote: God I hate Marauders. And I'm Terran. I really wish the marauder was nerfed but that's just me.Except Blizzard will never do that because it would make TvP Mech and they repeatedly stated that they didn't want that because that is what made Terran difficult for casuals in BW. I play Terran And I haven't made a marauder since Beta unless I was 3 raxing. Where have they stated that? Completely agree with the Marauder thing. | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On September 24 2011 12:59 Cabinet Sanchez wrote: What did Artosis say about Marauders and when? Anyone hating on Marauders are ok by me :/ He hates them In a lot of is casts for gom he makes his "love" for Marauder known | ||
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YyapSsap
New Zealand1511 Posts
On September 24 2011 16:00 captainwaffles wrote: Yeah, he is very right on that too, just speaking objectively about the marauder... you can kite but beyond this clicking and a moving across the screen (fucking absolutely boring micro) there is very little to the unit. I've been marauder clean for several months now. Im surprised that im not the only one >_> | ||
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sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
On September 24 2011 11:06 Techno wrote: I dont even know what to say. Every ghost ability screams anti specialist. EDIT: Sorry for triple post ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Kind of ... The reason I say its not is because its a ground unit and can be countered by the same specialist units and its anti-specialist spells are AoE. Here is my criteria for an anti-specialist unit. Flying, it must be mobile so it can fly around the map and control Ultralisk/Infestor/Muta numbers Should have an ability which kills a single unit effectively - In the case of Vessels, its Irradiate (250 damage for 75 energy) - In the case of Scourge, its suiciding for 110 damage - Protoss doesn't really have one (the closest is Dark Archon), which is why dealing with EMP's is so difficult Should not be able to be countered by the unit its supposed to counter - eg Fungal can take out ghosts easily & Storm can take out ghosts easily (even while cloaked) - Ghosts require a certain element of surprise, Vessels are always in your face yet they can't really get killed unless against many scourge (often requires distracting the Terran in battle while cloning scourge on each vessel) -- Exception: Plague, this happens sometimes, but getting your vessels plagued only means they die to 1 scourge instead of 2, because Zerg doesn't really have any other unit to take them out You need to snipe many times to kill ultras or infestors. You often use EMP's against Templar and Infestor, which is fine, but its quite easy to get counter fungaled against good players. Vessel was often simply go right up to the Zerg army, Irradiate as much crap as possible, then gtfo before the scourge get you. Or when you have the chance send 2 vessels to a zerg base and erase as many drones before they die to scourge. If they made Seeker Missile 250dmg non-AoE 75 energy, I'm sure the infestor would not have been a problem and also resulted in a more dynamic game, but I guess that would expose how bad the corruptor really is as an AA unit. This is the reason why many Terrans complained about the Infestor, and I see many other problems with Terran as a race given certain circumstances, such as its late-game compositions which are quite weak or unwieldy. Although its certainly better than the other races which have an even bigger gap in answers to certain compositions in early stages of the game. On September 24 2011 17:11 YyapSsap wrote: Im surprised that im not the only one >_> I haven't been making marauders since beta either, because it would make me bored of SC2. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On September 23 2011 10:42 HypernovA wrote: I don't understand why do Zerg players want Ghosts to be nerfed. How else do you expect Terran to win versus Broodlord/infestors? I don't expect you to win, Mr. Terran, I expect you to die! </bond villain> In more serious note... with the infestor damage and range on its spells respectively nerfed, and ghost techniques improving immensely, it's even more difficult to respond effectively to ghost usage. We have no exceptional unit for just dealing with the ghost (this is fine, it's just a thing we as zerg have to be aware of) and terran late-game armies with siege tanks, ghosts, vikings all providing backup to whatever backbone the terran feels is appropriate... Terran just has ALL the range. | ||
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SilverforceX
Australia267 Posts
On September 24 2011 18:12 sylverfyre wrote: I don't expect you to win, Mr. Terran, I expect you to die! </bond villain> In more serious note... with the infestor damage and range on its spells respectively nerfed, and ghost techniques improving immensely, it's even more difficult to respond effectively to ghost usage. We have no exceptional unit for just dealing with the ghost (this is fine, it's just a thing we as zerg have to be aware of) and terran late-game armies with siege tanks, ghosts, vikings all providing backup to whatever backbone the terran feels is appropriate... Terran just has ALL the range. I know you meant range as in flexibility.. but, consider: Viking, longest air range. Check. Tank, sieged longest ground range. Check. Tank unsieged/Thor, longest range to not get stuck like stupid dancing Immortals (with 6 range they still get stuck behind stalkers requiring micro like b4 the patch) behind the bioball. Check. Thors AA, longest range vs air units. Check. BCs, yamato destroys any anti-air since its the longest range. Check. BCs are used often, Carriers blow since beta. WTF bliz! MS is still a PoS that never leaves dock. Ghost snipe, longest range to easy counter a lot of stuff. Check. Ghost EMP, longest spell range to counter protoss and casters. Check. Ghost Nuke, long range to help its ease of use, unlike NP which got nerfed to 7. WTF. Check. | ||
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IntotheNorth
Denmark116 Posts
WE want to see more of blablxxxxx Holy Moly blizzard who do u think u are, rofl | ||
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MilesTeg
France1271 Posts
On September 24 2011 12:33 GinDo wrote: The issue with Ultras is that their armored and Marauders crap on everything armored. Not buff is gonna change that. And even if you buffed their attack and lowered their cost Maruaders would kite them to death.+ Show Spoiler + God I hate Marauders. And I'm Terran. I really wish the marauder was nerfed but that's just me.Except Blizzard will never do that because it would make TvP Mech and they repeatedly stated that they didn't want that because that is what made Terran difficult for casuals in BW. I play Terran And I haven't made a marauder since Beta unless I was 3 raxing. I don't agree (and I'm zerg). Ultras are pretty good in ZvT. Marauders are manageable (and aren't really a unit you would normally want to make against a zerg), and there are compositions like Ultra/Baneling or Ultra/Infestor that are very solid. The real problem I have as someone who loves to use Ultras is in ZvP, where Zealots and Immortals just make the Ultralisk a huge waste of money... I feel the damage against non-armored is laughable, and paying so much for a unit that just gets blocked by a couple zealots or some infested terrans is really frustrating to watch. Ultra needs a "charge" ability that allows them to push all that zealot/marine crap that's on it's way :p | ||
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Roblin
Sweden948 Posts
On September 24 2011 11:53 BrosephBrostar wrote: What is the immortal actually good at taking hits from though? Look at how hardened shields affects different attacks: Tank: 50>10 (40 less) Thor: 60>20 (40 less) Marauder: 20>10 (10 less) Stalker: 14>10 (4 less) Immortal: 50>10 (40 less) Colossus: 30>20 (10 less) Roach: 16>10 (6 less) Ultralisk: 35>10 (25 less) I definitely don't see it as a coincidence that the only things hardened shields have a significant effect on are terran mech units. Tank: 50>10 (80% less) Thor: 60>20 (~66% less) Marauder: 20>10 (50% less) Stalker: 14>10 (~29% less) Immortal: 50>10 (80% less) Colossus: 30>20 (~33% less) Roach: 16>10 (37.5% less) Ultralisk: 35>10 (~71% less) hardened shield have a significant effect on everything that triggers the hardened shield (notice that the smallest change possible of 11>10 is a ~9% decrease in dps, which is already a lot, a damage decrease of 80% is ridicolous, remember the immortal only have 100 shield, so when fighting tanks that 100 shield is equivalent to 500 shield, which means an immortal have almost as much eficient hp vs sieged tanks as an ultralisk. ridicolous) for the record, saying such things as damage reduction and damage decreases in pure numbers give very little information to the reader, see what I did? i changed it from a pure number to a percentage, and suddenly it is 50 times easier to see the actual effect of the damage reduction. for example: Tank: 50>10 (40 less) Thor: 60>20 (40 less) given this information, you can easily argue that the immortal "removes" an equal amount of dps from the respective units. Tank: 50>10 (80% less) Thor: 60>20 (~66% less) given this, you cannot argue the same, the hardened shield is very clearly much more efficient vs tanks than vs thors, which can be seen in real games. suddenly when you remove the numbers from it you can see how huge of an impact the hardened shields actually have. | ||
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pezit
Sweden302 Posts
The colossus is supposed to be the reaver of sc2 but it does a very bad job of it, it's an a-move unit, it can't harass at all and it's countered by the same things as the carrier making the transition from colossus to stargate tech worthless. Dark templar requires its own building, why? Right now it's just a cheese unit and a really bad one at that. It's an expensive building that takes a long time to build for a unit that brings absolutely nothing to your army strength, so if it's countered you'll lose unless you're in lategame. Mothership... I think people have already given enough reasons for this abomination to be removed, time to bring back the arbiter? | ||
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KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
On September 24 2011 18:30 IntotheNorth wrote: WE dont want to see blablaxxxxxx WE want to see more of blablxxxxx Holy Moly blizzard who do u think u are, rofl The creators of the game? haha, I don't really like how they are trying to force gameplay to evolve in certain ways... | ||
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Roblin
Sweden948 Posts
On September 24 2011 13:11 Weebem-Na wrote: Good read, I especially like the overall tone they use throughout. It's obvious they are doing the best anyone could, and really care about all of the matchups being interesting and even. I would've voted for carriers as far as my play goes, but Mothership buff makes for some sweet pro matches so I'm cool with it. im honestly scared of the prospect of a carrier buff. its a good unit as it is, just very difficult to field in the game, but if people would find a good way to get them Im afraid of a "carrier-realization" equal or greater than the "infestor-realization" months ago. | ||
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