Situation Report: Patch 1.4, Blizz's Explanations - Page 18

On September 23 2011 10:49 askTeivospy wrote:
choosing to buff mothership over carriers when they were debating it in order to get a unit that you never see into the limelight more is almost as sad as someone pointlessly bragging about calling something that was obviously going to happen given it always happens with patches ._>

On September 24 2011 07:10 CeriseCherries wrote:
-.- I don't care about build time, just give me cliffwalk or something... sick of my ultras unable to step over zerglings

On September 24 2011 07:10 CeriseCherries wrote:
-.- I don't care about build time, just give me cliffwalk or something... sick of my ultras unable to step over zerglings

On September 24 2011 05:15 Toadvine wrote:


It's actually a great approach, if BW has taught us anything. Instead of limiting options, so the game plays out according to the designers' preconceived notions, it's better to give the players more tools, so that they can look for a solution themselves. It actually made me rage when their rationale for the Thor nerf was "we don't like seeing Thors being massed"; that's just such a retarded reason to make the game less interesting.

Look at Protoss and Zerg, with their "this is unit X, and you should get it in situation Y" philosophy, and then look at Terran, with "this is unit X, look at how much cool stuff you can do with it!". Which seems better to you? Which do you prefer, PvP, or TvT(let's put Code S aside for the purpose of this comparison)? Clearly, a design that focuses on options, rather than purposes, makes for more interesting gameplay, and a more fun game in general.

So yeah, it's awesome that they're buffing the Immortal and the Warp Prism. Not so awesome they're nerfing the Infestor, why not buff HTs instead?

On September 23 2011 11:13 GinDo wrote:


Same reason they nerfed the hellion. They want the game to be easy. Thats why they want bio to be viable in TvT, because Mech TvT takes skill.

On September 24 2011 04:21 TUski wrote:
Ghosts don't really fill the role of anti-specialist unit, they just ended up that way, and that's why it doesn't do the job quite that well, and it feels really weird.

On September 24 2011 09:58 sluggaslamoo wrote:


It comes out as a balance of both.

For example Science Vessels Irradiate was to take out key units.

Then you had Scourge to take out key air units like the Science Vessel.

Then you had generalist units like the Marine to defend the Science Vessel against Scourge.

People then found out you could irradiate your own Science Vessels and use it as an "eraser" to AoE lots of small units like drones.

These are all units with a purpose, but also with a ton of options.

Compare this to let's say the Immortal, where they are designed to counter 1 unit and HARD, the Siege Tank. You can't micro the Immortal against Tanks because of clumped pathing, but then again who cares they absorb all the damage anyways and do 50 damage.

You also have the Mothership, Void Ray, 9 Range Colossus, Chargelots, Pheonix, which are already all good at killing or nullifying Siege Tanks and you have one messed up race.

Terran is better than the other races because of what you said, but then they somehow completely missed the "purpose" part. So now you have creative combinations of units that because they have a lot of options, can almost fill any role. Which is great but, in the certain stages of the game it makes things very difficult or very weird.

For example we use Ghosts to take out Infestors. Ghosts were never designed that way, its just that they had so many options, however Science Vessel Irradiate would make much more sense (or HSM could one shot 1 unit at 9 range for 75 energy). Ghosts don't really fill the role of anti-specialist unit, they just ended up that way, and that's why it doesn't do the job quite that well, and it feels really weird.

Other examples like Reapers and Hellions fill the exact same role, there is nothing like Valkyries or Irradiate to counter mass-mass muta, etc.

Of course this means the other races should also have units that will give them options against these stronger compositions (such as scourge), but then on the strategy part of the game it will be a lot more deep while improving the more dice-roll nature of SC2, and also making the game a lot more dynamic.

Instead its nerf this nerf that, rather than providing the races with better options. Instead of nerfing the infestor, Blizzard could have buffed HSM much more in order to deal with mass infestor.

In summary you need units with a purpose and with options, but it seems SC2 just went for one or the other.

On September 24 2011 11:06 Techno wrote:

I dont even know what to say. Every ghost ability screams anti specialist.

EDIT:

Sorry for triple post ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

On September 24 2011 09:09 Ballistixz wrote:



build time decreased to 50 was actually a very good choice in buffing. but its not gonna make ultras that much more useful. the main problem with ultras is that they are a resource hog. they drain minerals/gass in a instant and on top of that they get killed at by insanely cost effecient units like immortals or siege tanks. even ghosts are pretty good against ultras because of snipes.

what ultras really need is a decrease in cost. maybe 200 minerals 200 gas or something.

On September 24 2011 11:36 Toadvine wrote:
I don't think they made the Immortal to counter Tanks specifically, but as a general purpose tanking unit

On September 24 2011 04:14 Ownos wrote:


Well in BW they took 140s to complete and no chrono boost too. So I don't think it's entirely that they take too long.

I think people are overestimating the influence of vikings. Colossus also get countered by vikings. But we still make colossus. Because colossus are good.

In BW they took long to make. Difference being that, in a vacuum, they are good. And even considering the environment they were in, they still are good.

On September 24 2011 09:09 Ballistixz wrote:



build time decreased to 50 was actually a very good choice in buffing. but its not gonna make ultras that much more useful. the main problem with ultras is that they are a resource hog. they drain minerals/gass in a instant and on top of that they get killed at by insanely cost effecient units like immortals or siege tanks. even ghosts are pretty good against ultras because of snipes.

what ultras really need is a decrease in cost. maybe 200 minerals 200 gas or something.