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On September 20 2011 11:33 Plexa wrote:
The stacking section is very misleading. The most powerful part of fungal isn't the damage it deals, but the fact it roots units to the ground. You can still chain-fungal units with overlapping fungals to keep them rooted forever. And iirc, the damage fungal did never stacked.
Hmmm... I added a note to it, but the point I was trying to make is for non-engagements. Before, you could catch an army out of position and fungal it down with clipping(stacking), but now, it's much more difficult.
I feel like Blizzard's intention in this change is to make fungals less effective out of combat but remain essentially the same in combat for most engagements.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
When Zergs have 10+ infestors (not uncommon mid-late zvp, esp. if you are behind as protoss) clipping really doesn't matter 
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On September 20 2011 10:20 AGIANTSMURF wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 10:17 ELA wrote:On September 20 2011 10:07 Blazinghand wrote:On September 20 2011 10:03 stanik wrote:
Ty for the list. I'm sure people will point out missing units. For example marine / combat shield marine, workers, medivac, battle cruiser, HT, zealot, sentry, reaper, hydra. That's an interesting point. I think, however (and I may be wrong) that he was only counting those units against which the critical number of fungals changed. For example, the sentry, with 80 hp, goes from like 2.3 fungals to 2.4 fungals-- a relatively insignificant change. Pardon me for probably being stupid - But decimals dosn't really matter much do they? Be it 2.1 or 2.9, you still need to Fungal the unit 3 times? decimals matter quite a bit, in a realistic battle there will be units attacking, meaning you might be fungaling a unit thats already been damaged
In a realistic battle when units are attacking in addition to fungals being cast, these decimals are useless - The damage is what matters?
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If fungal is great because it root thing, why everyone agree that the 36 damage 8s root was worse than the one we have today ?
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when FG was changed to 4s from 8s, everyone agreed this was a huge buff because of the extra DPS. Now 1/3 of this extra DPS is gone, and people are saying this is nothing what matters is the root ability ?!
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Sorry to beat a dead horse, but as for the clipping:
Can they still be chained to keep units in place, even without damage stacking? For example, if a player casts FG, and then another when there is 1 second left on the original, will the units stay rooted for 7 seconds? Or will only the first one be affecting them, and they can move after 4?
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On September 20 2011 22:30 Sated wrote:
Considering how many Infestors Zerg player have, it really doesn't matter if they have to waste a little more energy on "clipping". Fungal still prevent the opponent micro'ing against your army and that is a massive deal because it prevents the opponent from having a chance at using a superior micro skill-set to even out engagements.
I agree with you to a certain extent... Abilities similar to fungal in terms of denying micro, like forcefield, actually allow for great micro to shine, such as hot pickups with medivacs or burrow micro. However, as you stated, fungal 100% denys any micro once the spell has landed.
With that said however, I think the superior micro vs infestors should come in the avoiding fungal micro. Unfortunately, I think this is mostly a TvZ concept, I don't really know how P's avoid fungals... they can't really spread their units like Terrans can. Or can they? prolly not realistic or even a good idea, but maybe.
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At the core, the nerf means that you will need ~1 extra fungal to kill most of the unit. It's quite a nerf.
I am glad we can still 2shot observers.
However, i have no clue how is Z going to deal with Warp prisms....It will be same as vs Terran, but without mutas. Wait and see.
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Does roach burrowed regen now = fungal DPS? Am I getting that wrong?
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funny op saying stacking fungals isn't possible anymore, while its still possible just needs an additional fungal on some units. (that way its even easier to do)
In fact it will be awesome to see if a player can get the stalkers with only 4 and if the other one manages to save his units against this . So the skill ceiling for fungal just went high into the sky, while its still noob friendly.
And why should i use the word clipping, stacking has the same length, so no need to use another word for stacking something , clipping fungals sounds just odd. Chaining fungals sounds more clear and awesome anyway.
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I like the changes in ZvZ. At the moment, the match-up is like:
Oh he's getting Roaches, what counters Roaches? Roaches and Infestors I guess. Oh, he's getting Infestors, what counters Infestors? Roaches and Infestors I guess. Getting Banelings when there are Infestors on the field is currently a complete gamble. Hopefully this will help to make styles viable.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On September 20 2011 10:38 Zelniq wrote:
something people dont realize is zerg units regen their first hit point back right after they lose hp, which is why zerglings currently in 1.3 can survive with 1 hp after 1 fungal.
This isn't directly why, this is just how it's shown to us on the interface (a unit will show 1 HP when it has 0.001 HP so it doesn't look stupid that a unit survives with 0 HP).
Zerg units regenerate at a rate marginally over 0.25/s (you can find the exact number somewhere).
So a fungal on a zergling before this patch deals 36 damage over 4s, with a zergling have 35hp and it will regenerate just over 1 health in that time, meaning it survives. If fungal did 36.2 damage it would kill a zergling outright.
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On September 20 2011 11:12 ZOMGitsTHEEND wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 09:57 michaelhasanalias wrote:
Warp Prism
The new changes to both warp prism and fungal growth make for the biggest change in fungal requirement. In 1.3 it took only three fungals to kill a warp prism, while the new patch requires five.
honestly, no one uses warp prisms anyway and fungalling them is not as important as fungulling medivacs as they only cost 200 minerals.
Wait WHAT? Have you heard of the guy LiquidHerO? To my knowledge he is KNOWN as the Warp Prism guy as well as White-ra.
Considering the medievac and the warp prism are from two different races i would be honestly amazed if you ever had to choose between a Warp prism and and medievac in a 1v1 situation no really tell me next time that happens.
In case you havent noticed more and more players are using Warp prisms (ex. Minigun)
If zerg is going infestor ling how else do they stop warp prism? Fungal + Infested terrans
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SoCal8933 Posts
thanks for the information. as a zerg player i was okay with this fungal change from the start and now the numbers are there to make me feel that much better.
i did think it was pretty skill-less to chain fungal but with some more even numbers, if you had good infestor control to begin with (read: weren't spamming the hell outta fungal) you definitely won't feel the changes too much especially since it should just be a damage output boost instead of a "lock down" in most situations.
i'm still bummed about the neural nerf..but maybe next patch or a hotfix will get it reverted when it becomes blatantly obvious that infestors are going to be incredibly easy to kill. i'd like that HP buff they considered a couple patches back :/
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On September 20 2011 09:57 michaelhasanalias wrote:1.4 Fungal Growth Unit Damage ChartSorry if this is a repost, but I looked around and didn't see a post showing these numbers. So, since the patch just went live I thought I would post this: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/LWcdL.png) units where the critical number of fungals did not change are not listed, unless they can't be clipped1.3 Fungal - 36 (46.8 v armored) 1.4 Fungal - 30 (40 v armored) Some of these things are probably already well-known by now, but I will list them for completion's sake: No More Clipping (Stacking)The biggest thing to note is all the whole numbers in 1.4. This means that while you can still kill many units with the same number of fungals, you can no longer clip (stack) them. You must let the full duration tick each time, and then re-stack fungal (extraneous damage notwithstanding). Units you can no longer clip: Stalker, Dark Templar, Observer, MULE, Hellion, Siege Tank edit: Clipping is defined as when you overwrite the existing damage over time spell with a new one. Fungal does damage over time, and if you cast a new fungal growth before the old one has finished, the first fungal can't do its full damage.Blink Stalkers (thanks to RisingTide for mentioning this)Because you can no longer clip Stalkers with 4 fungals and must be precise, zerg players must now make the decision whether to continue to clip versus Blink Stalkers and use a 5th fungal to kill them, or allow them the opportunity to blink away if the protoss player is spamming the blink command (extraneous damage notwithstanding). Warp PrismThe new changes to both warp prism and fungal growth make for the biggest change in fungal requirement. In 1.3 it took only three fungals to kill a warp prism, while the new patch requires five. ZvZAnother notable change to fungal in 1.4 is in ZvZ. Banelings and Broodlings could be killed in a single fungal. However, they now require two fungals (or other unit damage). Further, while Infestors could be double fungaled, they now require three fungals. Essentially, nearly every zerg unit requires an extra fungal to kill except the roach. This leaves roach wars almost unchanged, but nerfs infestors slightly vs everything else (except zerglings) in zvz. Closing CommentsAt least in my opinion, while on its face it doesn't seem that fungal growth has been affected all that much, I do believe it now requires greater skill to use equally, as you must use greater care with stacking fungal growth. The inability to clip many units and kill them solely with fungal growth will add a risk of those units being able to flee, and require more attention and better timing by zerg players. I think players highly skilled with Infestors will find no notable difference in most situations, regardless of the new inability to clip many units. Those whose sense of timing fungals is not very good will now need to learn this skill.
You forgot to add sentries to the chart.
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On September 20 2011 22:55 david.oh.k wrote:
You forgot to add sentries to the chart.
have you read the thread?
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On September 20 2011 09:57 michaelhasanalias wrote:
Some of these things are probably already well-known by now, but I will list them for completion's sake:
No More Clipping (Stacking)
The biggest thing to note is all the whole numbers in 1.4. This means that while you can still kill many units with the same number of fungals, you can no longer clip (stack) them. You must let the full duration tick each time, and then re-stack fungal (extraneous damage notwithstanding).
Units you can no longer clip: Stalker, Dark Templar, Observer, MULE, Hellion, Siege Tank
edit: Clipping is defined as when you overwrite the existing damage over time spell with a new one. Fungal does damage over time, and if you cast a new fungal growth before the old one has finished, the first fungal can't do its full damage.
I'm confused, can you explain this change in detail? I really don't understand how this is different from before.
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Was an OP spell anyways. Now it's still the strongest AoE in the game but slightly less so :D
Neural change was retarded and I don't know how we're to stop maxed archon/HT balls anymore. Back to banebombs I guess sigh...
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I'm just so glad, that I never went for that fungal style... 
On September 20 2011 23:18 R3N wrote:
Was an OP spell anyways. Now it's still the strongest AoE in the game but slightly less so :D
ahm... no?! Fungal has 7.5/10dps --> Psi Storm has 20dps;
Sieged Tanks have 11.7/16.8dps,
Colossus 18.2 dps
Ultralisks 17.4/40.6 dps
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EPT
