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On September 20 2011 06:43 ZestyPickle wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:42 Kaedeleus wrote:On September 20 2011 06:38 ZestyPickle wrote:On September 20 2011 06:36 Kaedeleus wrote:On September 20 2011 06:32 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:28 Chargelot wrote:On September 20 2011 06:22 Tanith wrote:
what a loads of stupid drama this has became, how this should of gone whether the contract is legal or not:
Stephano signs contract with col
Stephano change his mind
coL say fuck it, if he change his mind so easily and shits on us this way we don't want or need him, we lost a months worth of negotiations its sucks get over it
Stephano and mil look like idiots
case closed
All this legal, lawsuit blah blah blah fucking zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
No, I disagree with you, I just know not to speak English  ..... I don't understand why people like this get involved in the conversation, if they are so willfully ignorant that they don't understand the purpose or intents of a -- any -- business. You can't sign a contract, and then in less than a day after it's made public decline to follow through with your LEGAL obligations. It is illegal.. this contract was not valid and did not confer any legal obligations. it wasn't even in french, let alone in the valid form of a contract of employment. Finally someone says something true, the contract is not valid in the eyes of the law, we must not look any further No. You have no idea of the actual wording, and I guarantee you that if he signed his name, regardless of whatever the fuck was written down he will be held accountable for something. You mean U.S. law, but French law allows to break a contract within a period of several days (I do not know the exact number). So good you agree with me then that he is still liable for US law. Finally you see the light.
No, I disagree with you, I not speak English
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Wanna guess what's the next move of Stephano : Going back to his studies, he switch to a full time pro-gamer, right before entering med school, he will switch back to being a student...
On September 20 2011 06:43 ZestyPickle wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:42 Kaedeleus wrote:On September 20 2011 06:38 ZestyPickle wrote:On September 20 2011 06:36 Kaedeleus wrote:On September 20 2011 06:32 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:28 Chargelot wrote:On September 20 2011 06:22 Tanith wrote:
what a loads of stupid drama this has became, how this should of gone whether the contract is legal or not:
Stephano signs contract with col
Stephano change his mind
coL say fuck it, if he change his mind so easily and shits on us this way we don't want or need him, we lost a months worth of negotiations its sucks get over it
Stephano and mil look like idiots
case closed
All this legal, lawsuit blah blah blah fucking zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
No, I disagree with you, I just know not to speak English ..... I don't understand why people like this get involved in the conversation, if they are so willfully ignorant that they don't understand the purpose or intents of a -- any -- business. You can't sign a contract, and then in less than a day after it's made public decline to follow through with your LEGAL obligations. It is illegal.. this contract was not valid and did not confer any legal obligations. it wasn't even in french, let alone in the valid form of a contract of employment. Finally someone says something true, the contract is not valid in the eyes of the law, we must not look any further No. You have no idea of the actual wording, and I guarantee you that if he signed his name, regardless of whatever the fuck was written down he will be held accountable for something. You mean U.S. law, but French law allows to break a contract within a period of several days (I do not know the exact number). So good you agree with me then that he is still liable for US law. Finally you see the light.
If it's a CDI (contract of work with no expiration date) you can break the contract within the "période d'essai" (trial period) which is usually 3 to 6 months, you then have 1 day per week and 1 week per month of "préavis" (period where you're still working but you have warn your employer that you will leave) so for a french CDI, you can leave within 1day during the first week.
If it's a CDD (contract of work with an expiration date), there is usually no easy way to break the contract.
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And some more drama, but i kinda get the feel that millenium and stephano are the bad guys in this case but i will wait for the other view of things first.
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On September 20 2011 06:45 ZestyPickle wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:42 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:30 ZestyPickle wrote:On September 20 2011 06:28 Carapas wrote:On September 20 2011 06:27 ZestyPickle wrote:On September 20 2011 06:26 sixfour wrote:On September 20 2011 06:24 ZestyPickle wrote:
Yeah but depending on how the legal action progresses, Stephano may never set foot in the US unless he wants to answer to US law
this is a contract dispute, he's not killed anybody $$$$$ This is no a criminal case, this is civil, thus he can certainly come to NA anytime... Im not arguing he cant come, Im saying he will have just have to answer to what ever us courts find, and if it thousands of dollars worth of damages he may not want to come if you think even american courts are going to find for damages against someone who refused within hours to honour an incorrectly executed foreign employment contract, and was paid nothing, you're delusional. You're delusional as to how US contracts work. Please stop acting like they have to be novels to have weight. A handshake deal can be just as binding as a signed one here.
No it cant because it would violate the statute of frauds.
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On September 20 2011 06:46 gulbanana wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:31 jmbthirteen wrote:On September 20 2011 06:29 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:25 FlamingTurd wrote:
This is seriously bad. He signed the contract and Millenium is acting like just because he felt like staying that he can disregard that contract. What total BS that whole thing is. no, they're acting like because it wasn't a valid contract he can disregard it. signatures on bits of paper aren't magic. they're private agreements to do commerce, governed by multiple tiers of regulation. in this case, those laws don't allow for such an agreement. How do you know the contract isn't valid? many reasons, but the most obvious one: it wasn't written, coL and mill have said, in French. that's a requirement for employment contracts in France.
was. not. employment. contract.
It was a contractors contract
for the 129387128937x time from complexity: This was a contractor contract, NOT an employment contract. The jurisdiction was Texas, USA and France has treaties that cover such international contracts. We are still investigating this, but people should not write off our situation just yet.
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On September 20 2011 06:47 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:46 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:31 jmbthirteen wrote:On September 20 2011 06:29 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:25 FlamingTurd wrote:
This is seriously bad. He signed the contract and Millenium is acting like just because he felt like staying that he can disregard that contract. What total BS that whole thing is. no, they're acting like because it wasn't a valid contract he can disregard it. signatures on bits of paper aren't magic. they're private agreements to do commerce, governed by multiple tiers of regulation. in this case, those laws don't allow for such an agreement. How do you know the contract isn't valid? many reasons, but the most obvious one: it wasn't written, coL and mill have said, in French. that's a requirement for employment contracts in France. How ambiguous. now cite the french law please.
http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/N19871.xhtml
"En cas de signature d'un CDI par écrit, celui-ci doit être rédigé en français. Si la fonction est désignée par un terme étranger qui n'a pas de correspondant en français, l'explication de ce terme, en français, doit figurer dans le contrat."
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
So that's the stance Stephano and Millenium are taking? Ignore coL? French laws and nationalism trumphs everything else? What a fucking disappointment. You've just lost a fan today Stephano.
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On September 20 2011 06:50 gulbanana wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:47 zhurai wrote:On September 20 2011 06:46 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:31 jmbthirteen wrote:On September 20 2011 06:29 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:25 FlamingTurd wrote:
This is seriously bad. He signed the contract and Millenium is acting like just because he felt like staying that he can disregard that contract. What total BS that whole thing is. no, they're acting like because it wasn't a valid contract he can disregard it. signatures on bits of paper aren't magic. they're private agreements to do commerce, governed by multiple tiers of regulation. in this case, those laws don't allow for such an agreement. How do you know the contract isn't valid? many reasons, but the most obvious one: it wasn't written, coL and mill have said, in French. that's a requirement for employment contracts in France. How ambiguous. now cite the french law please. http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/N19871.xhtml"En cas de signature d'un CDI par écrit, celui-ci doit être rédigé en français. Si la fonction est désignée par un terme étranger qui n'a pas de correspondant en français, l'explication de ce terme, en français, doit figurer dans le contrat."
now please translate that to english, since apparently the french doesn't like to use google translate on their own.
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On September 20 2011 06:44 Koorb wrote:
Just to summarize what Lewellys, Millenium's manager, said tonight (Europe timezone) on stream:
- There is indeed a signed legal document that binds Stephano and compLexity. Millenium's staff reviewed it, and told Stephano that there were loopholes in the contract, and that it doesn't comply with French labor law. Subsequently, Lewellys and Millenium's staff advised Stephano to ignore it, which he eventually did.
- Lewellys stated that he didn't know about coL's intentions before the announcement of the transfer on TL Forum. However, he also said that he doesn't know if other people in Millenium's staff were in contact with coL or not.
- He doesn't plan on answering to coL's mails. He also said that he is confident that Millenium is covered by French law on that matters.
- Contrary to Cedrix's (Millenium boss) statement in the OP, there were no "disorienting actions" from coL. The so-called disorienting actions was that they signed the contract during the night (in European time zone), and that Stephano is only 18.
- Lewellys stated that he doesn't plan on sending Stephano to lots of international event, and that he will focus on French events.
Wow this is terrible for millenium and Stephano!
No doubt loosing many many fans even if just some of this is true. I dont care about the legal side and dont know about it. But just as a viewer and fan it makes me really upset and not going to support these guys. Not the right thing to do my mil. or Stephano.
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On September 20 2011 06:43 Piotr wrote:
Hi guys, french guy is talking here, so sorry for my poor english. I studied some labor law here in france in my graduate school.
First of all I would like to say that if Stephano signed a legal contract in US, the French jurisdiction will certainly understand that and claimed that it is perfectly legal (unless it is against international treaties but it's obviously not). In fact when you are hired by a foreign company, you have to choose with your employer which country do you choose for the law. If you don't, the law is the one where you do your job. If you move a lot for your job, the law is where your company is. (Convention of Rome)
The determination of the law court is totally dependent of the choice made for the applicable law. Stephano can ask to bring the case behind a French court but this one will take the foreign basis to decide. (still convention of rome)
That's why people who say that it's not a legal contract in france are totally wrong. On top of that, labor law in France is not mainly governed by laws but it's governed by case law and collective bargaining. The law just gives the main lines (no work under 18, no harassment etc). That's why in order to understand a case, you have to know many other cases.
In France we also have something that is called loyalty (maybe not always in history but in labor law we do :p ) : if you sign a second contract while you have already one employer, your first employer can say "oh, that's not fair, he just has signed whit X which is a direct concurrent", and can ask for compensation. A particulary clause in the contract is not required for that. It is obvious that it the case here.
An other thing that is said is that if Stephano has not signed any thing with millenium, he just has to quit his job with CoL and to sign with Millenium. That's not that easy. We have to know the contract of Stephano to state on this because CoL can totally say in front of a court that Stephano quitted his job because Millenium was here (and it's obvious). This is totally legal but it can be stated by a court that it is an unfair competition and that there is a préjudice for col (economic, moral...). It is not unsual but I repeat that we need more facts to state.
You really have to understand that without more pieces of information we can't state on this. Maybe Stephano has not signed anything with CoL or maybe he has signed something very particular.
My opinion is that Millenium doesn't look really professional in this case. For example they promise a CDI of 12 months, that doesn't exist at all in France because CDI means permanent contract.
they said they offered him a CDI. They didn't mention anything about a duration :S. I think you misunderstood that part. The rest of your post I'm not competent.
However I might just add that I understand from your post that Stephano himself isn't in particular danger of lawsuit. Maybe Millenium. Am I right?
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On September 20 2011 06:32 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:30 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:27 blade55555 wrote:On September 20 2011 06:25 WightyCity wrote:
maybe he just signed without reading. i do that all the time. lol you don't do that when you are doing a legally binding contract like that. fortunately, france provides its citiens legal protections for mistakes made in haste. stefano made a mistake, alright, but it needn't be life-destroying. why do you think it should be? Sorry when your an adult if you are not reading a legally binding contract and then just signing it you deserve the consequences. Why do you think he doesn't? I mean this is just dumb on his part.
it wasn't a legally binding contract. further, young adults don't "deserve consequences" for briefly-made, quickly-regretted decisions to seek employment, if they change their mind in a timely manner.
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On September 20 2011 06:50 gulbanana wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:47 zhurai wrote:On September 20 2011 06:46 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:31 jmbthirteen wrote:On September 20 2011 06:29 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:25 FlamingTurd wrote:
This is seriously bad. He signed the contract and Millenium is acting like just because he felt like staying that he can disregard that contract. What total BS that whole thing is. no, they're acting like because it wasn't a valid contract he can disregard it. signatures on bits of paper aren't magic. they're private agreements to do commerce, governed by multiple tiers of regulation. in this case, those laws don't allow for such an agreement. How do you know the contract isn't valid? many reasons, but the most obvious one: it wasn't written, coL and mill have said, in French. that's a requirement for employment contracts in France. How ambiguous. now cite the french law please. http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/N19871.xhtml"En cas de signature d'un CDI par écrit, celui-ci doit être rédigé en français. Si la fonction est désignée par un terme étranger qui n'a pas de correspondant en français, l'explication de ce terme, en français, doit figurer dans le contrat."
This was a contractor contract, NOT an employment contract. The jurisdiction was Texas, USA and France has treaties that cover such international contracts. We are still investigating this, but people should not write off our situation just yet.
Give me the French law regarding that please.
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On September 20 2011 06:49 EvOr wrote:
Wanna guess what's the next move of Stephano : Going back to his studies, he switch to a full time pro-gamer, right before entering med school, he will switch back to being a student...
Stephano is 18? He is going to med school soon? Really?
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and WOW this is amusing how wrong some of you guys are -_-
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[B]On September 20 2011 06:44 Koorb wrote:
- Lewellys stated that he doesn't plan on sending Stephano to lots of international event, and that he will focus on French events.
Tbh this is the part that bothers me the most in all of this. Stephano is a fucking amazing player an should be given the opportunity to compete in as many international events as possible
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On September 20 2011 06:48 Koorb wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:46 gulbanana wrote:
many reasons, but the most obvious one: it wasn't written, coL and mill have said, in French. that's a requirement for employment contracts in France. THAT IS ABSOLUTELY FALSE, as said previously in this topic. An employment contract in France could even be implied and not expressed, and oral agreement are accepted in court.
Finally someone with a basic grasp of contracts. And your french, therefore automatically my favorite french person ever
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On September 20 2011 06:43 Piotr wrote:
Hi guys, french guy is talking here, so sorry for my poor english. I studied some labor law here in france in my graduate school.
First of all I would like to say that if Stephano signed a legal contract in US, the French jurisdiction will certainly understand that and claimed that it is perfectly legal (unless it is against international treaties but it's obviously not). In fact when you are hired by a foreign company, you have to choose with your employer which country do you choose for the law. If you don't, the law is the one where you do your job. If you move a lot for your job, the law is where your company is. (Convention of Rome)
The determination of the law court is totally dependent of the choice made for the applicable law. Stephano can ask to bring the case behind a French court but this one will take the foreign basis to decide. (still convention of rome)
That's why people who say that it's not a legal contract in france are totally wrong. On top of that, labor law in France is not mainly governed by laws but it's governed by case law and collective bargaining. The law just gives the main lines (no work under 18, no harassment etc). That's why in order to understand a case, you have to know many other cases.
In France we also have something that is called loyalty (maybe not always in history but in labor law we do :p ) : if you sign a second contract while you have already one employer, your first employer can say "oh, that's not fair, he just has signed whit X which is a direct concurrent", and can ask for compensation. A particulary clause in the contract is not required for that. It is obvious that it the case here.
An other thing that is said is that if Stephano has not signed any thing with millenium, he just has to quit his job with CoL and to sign with Millenium. That's not that easy. We have to know the contract of Stephano to state on this because CoL can totally say in front of a court that Stephano quitted his job because Millenium was here (and it's obvious). This is totally legal but it can be stated by a court that it is an unfair competition and that there is a préjudice for col (economic, moral...). It is not unsual but I repeat that we need more facts to state.
You really have to understand that without more pieces of information we can't state on this. Maybe Stephano has not signed anything with CoL or maybe he has signed something very particular.
My opinion is that Millenium doesn't look really professional in this case. For example they promise a CDI of 12 months, that doesn't exist at all in France because CDI means permanent contract.
more people should read this
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France266 Posts
On September 20 2011 06:48 keioh wrote:
QUoting for spreading. It's hard to see the most understandable post under the 36th biggest shitstorm of our time. I am really interested into knowing what said loopholes are.
Lewellys didn't told much of it, he just said that there were no mention of withdrawal clause in the contract. That being said, I'm pretty sure that mention of the withdrawal clause is not a required clause in many kinds of employment contract..
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On September 20 2011 06:49 Pred8oar wrote:
And some more drama, but i kinda get the feel that millenium and stephano are the bad guys in this case but i will wait for the other view of things first.
Which you won't see. Mill keeps ignoring complexity (stephano to) when they get emails (or complexity says I imagine its true), mill did a thing that only french people could ask questions about it and mill said they will not make a statement stating they dont' care what the international community thinks. Honestly makes me hate mill a lot with what they have done so far lol.
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On September 20 2011 06:50 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:50 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:47 zhurai wrote:On September 20 2011 06:46 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:31 jmbthirteen wrote:On September 20 2011 06:29 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:25 FlamingTurd wrote:
This is seriously bad. He signed the contract and Millenium is acting like just because he felt like staying that he can disregard that contract. What total BS that whole thing is. no, they're acting like because it wasn't a valid contract he can disregard it. signatures on bits of paper aren't magic. they're private agreements to do commerce, governed by multiple tiers of regulation. in this case, those laws don't allow for such an agreement. How do you know the contract isn't valid? many reasons, but the most obvious one: it wasn't written, coL and mill have said, in French. that's a requirement for employment contracts in France. How ambiguous. now cite the french law please. http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/N19871.xhtml"En cas de signature d'un CDI par écrit, celui-ci doit être rédigé en français. Si la fonction est désignée par un terme étranger qui n'a pas de correspondant en français, l'explication de ce terme, en français, doit figurer dans le contrat." now please translate that to english, since apparently the french doesn't like to use google translate on their own.
"If a contract is signed in writing, it must be written in French. If the function is designated by a foreign term that has no equivalent in French, the explanation of this term, in French, should be included in the contract."
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EPT
