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On September 20 2011 06:44 TurpinOS wrote:[/B
Because thats one of the facts that we actually have coming from both parties.
Stop spreading this non-sense and baseless arguments.
Yep
[B]On September 20 2011 06:44 Koorb wrote:
Just to summarize what Lewellys, Millenium's manager, said tonight (Europe timezone) on stream:
- There is indeed a signed legal document that binds Stephano and compLexity. Millenium's staff reviewed it, and told Stephano that there were loopholes in the contract, and that it doesn't comply with French labor law. Subsequently, Lewellys and Millenium's staff advised Stephano to ignore it, which he eventually did.
(...)
- He doesn't plan on answering to coL's mails. He also said that he is confident that Millenium is covered by French law on that matters.
(...)
- Lewellys stated that he doesn't plan on sending Stephano to lots of international event, and that he will focus on French events.
Pew pew~!
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On September 20 2011 06:31 darkscream wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:26 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:23 zhurai wrote:On September 20 2011 06:22 Tanith wrote:
what a loads of stupid drama this has became, how this should of gone whether the contract is legal or not:
Stephano signs contract with col
Stephano change his mind
coL say fuck it, if he change his mind so easily and shits on us this way we don't want or need him, we lost a months worth of negotiations its sucks get over it
Stephano and mil look like idiots
case closed
All this legal, lawsuit blah blah blah fucking zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
you forgot now people don't care about contracts because they can just "change their mind" do you somehow genuinely think that people shouldn't be allowed to quit their job? what century are you from? The 21st century? It's not quitting a job, its agreeing to something and breaking that agreement. Its slimy. Regardless of whether there is a legal precedent, it just LOOKS bad and has the potential to ruin any chance for Stephano to be an e-sports superstar. actually, an agreement to work for money is a job.
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lolwut? so Stephano signed a legally binding contract, then decided the day (or week, or whatever timeline after) to just completely ignore that and re-join Millenium? can he even do that????
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Wow, im pretty lost in this whole issue, i was really excited to see Stephano on Col, but now im really confused
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lol thats pretty shitty of him to sign and then break a deal asap. At least he didnt receive money or travel for col. cause then it would have been really shitty. (still shitty though)
Not sure what they can do legally? force him to play for them ? Who knows I doubt its even worth it and I doubt they would want someone like that on their roster anyway.
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On September 20 2011 06:44 Dandy_Moustachu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:35 Teael wrote:On September 20 2011 06:34 Tamotab wrote:On September 20 2011 06:28 Skeet11 wrote:
Man, I don't know who to call the bigger dick. Millenium for persuing Stephano after signing a contract with compLexity, or Stephano for actually turning his back from compLexity after signing the deal with them. And no statements from Mill or Stephano? Wtf. A lot of people asked him to post an official statement on TL, but basically he said he doesn't care what the international community thinks and that a few days from now all this drama will be forgotten/yesterday news. Wishful thinking The internet does not forget Who still talk about Puma and Eg ?
But you did not forget :D
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On September 20 2011 06:35 gulbanana wrote:
barbaric. anybody should be able to quit their job, with a given notice period. as is the case in basically every country in the world. i hear some u.s. states don't actually allow that, which is insane - you can really sign your life away for X months or years without a chance to go back on it? surely not.
Yeah, and you know what determines your "notice period"? A contract that you sign for employment! But, that's not even all - if you don't give the notice for the appropriate period, there are consequences involved, all of which are laid out (once again) in the contract.
If the consequences for breaching the contract are not outlined, then I don't know what happens. But to just say you can back out of a commitment whenever you like without the terms of doing so laid out beforehand is silly.
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On September 20 2011 06:43 hifriend wrote:
17 year old indecisive kid changed his mind right after signing a contract.. it happens.
Anyway I hope whatever happens stephano ends up on a team he's happy with whether it be millenium, complexity or some other team.
I have to admit I think it's sad that organisations like teamliquid and millenium that invested a lot of money, time and effort into building up great players from scratch are inevitably going to be screwed vs bigger organisations like EG and coL.
A few organisations with big budgets pushing player salaries beyond what was realistically sustainable is exactly what killed wc3 esports.
The fuck? I don't know how you leave Team Liquid in a lower business tiered organization when they're known for handling business pretty well and I'm pretty sure they're up there with EG and Complexity in terms of taking care of their players financially.
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On September 20 2011 06:31 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:29 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:25 FlamingTurd wrote:
This is seriously bad. He signed the contract and Millenium is acting like just because he felt like staying that he can disregard that contract. What total BS that whole thing is. no, they're acting like because it wasn't a valid contract he can disregard it. signatures on bits of paper aren't magic. they're private agreements to do commerce, governed by multiple tiers of regulation. in this case, those laws don't allow for such an agreement. How do you know the contract isn't valid?
many reasons, but the most obvious one: it wasn't written, coL and mill have said, in French. that's a requirement for employment contracts in France.
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On September 20 2011 06:45 euroboy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:41 zhurai wrote:On September 20 2011 06:41 euroboy wrote:On September 20 2011 06:41 TurpinOS wrote:On September 20 2011 06:33 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:28 zhurai wrote:On September 20 2011 06:26 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:23 zhurai wrote:On September 20 2011 06:22 Tanith wrote:
what a loads of stupid drama this has became, how this should of gone whether the contract is legal or not:
Stephano signs contract with col
Stephano change his mind
coL say fuck it, if he change his mind so easily and shits on us this way we don't want or need him, we lost a months worth of negotiations its sucks get over it
Stephano and mil look like idiots
case closed
All this legal, lawsuit blah blah blah fucking zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
you forgot now people don't care about contracts because they can just "change their mind" do you somehow genuinely think that people shouldn't be allowed to quit their job? what century are you from? do you somehow genuinely think that people should just sign a _legal contract_ and be allowed to just say "fuck it I don't need to do it lolololol" what century are you from? stephano did not sign a legal contract. he signed something a jumped-up american idiot thought would bind him under Texas law. doesn't work that way, and no french court would extradite him for it. Stop posting, you know nothing of Law at all, yet you keep pumping these presumptions left and right. If he signed a piece of paper, he signed a contract, and until a court of law judges that it is legal or not you can't infer anything specific (especially since you havent seen said piece of paper) And yes, a French individual can be binded under Texas law. How do you know he signed a paper? How do you know he didn't? Because, as I've said before in this thread. In Col's statement it clearly says he agreed to join YESTERDAY on skype, and they announce it today. Thats a quick mailman if they didn't fax, but they never mention anything about it, just the skype call. So it's confusing...
In US verbal agreements are still contracts.
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On September 20 2011 06:35 gulbanana wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:28 Myles wrote:On September 20 2011 06:26 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:23 zhurai wrote:On September 20 2011 06:22 Tanith wrote:
what a loads of stupid drama this has became, how this should of gone whether the contract is legal or not:
Stephano signs contract with col
Stephano change his mind
coL say fuck it, if he change his mind so easily and shits on us this way we don't want or need him, we lost a months worth of negotiations its sucks get over it
Stephano and mil look like idiots
case closed
All this legal, lawsuit blah blah blah fucking zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
you forgot now people don't care about contracts because they can just "change their mind" do you somehow genuinely think that people shouldn't be allowed to quit their job? what century are you from? I live in the 21st century where contracts (should) mean something. So no, I don't think if you sign a contract saying you'll be with a company for x days/months/years/whatever, that you can quit said contract whenever you want. Not with out consequences at least. barbaric. anybody should be able to quit their job, with a given notice period. as is the case in basically every country in the world. i hear some u.s. states don't actually allow that, which is insane - you can really sign your life away for X months or years without a chance to go back on it? surely not.
To me the barbaric situation is where a man's word isn't worth the paper he signs. Contractual law brings stability and order. If you want to run teams like the wild west (or wild Australian outback) then E-sports is doomed.
As Col stated without stability and contracts with value (enforcable) you will not get sponsor/Ad money long term. And without Ad-Revenue there would be no e-sports. Or any spectator sports for that matter.
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On September 20 2011 06:44 Koorb wrote:
Just to summarize what Lewellys, Millenium's manager, said tonight (Europe timezone) on stream:
- There is indeed a signed legal document that binds Stephano and compLexity. Millenium's staff reviewed it, and told Stephano that there were loopholes in the contract, and that it doesn't comply with French labor law. Subsequently, Lewellys and Millenium's staff advised Stephano to ignore it, which he eventually did.
Because thats one of the facts that we actually have coming from both parties.
Stop spreading this non-sense and baseless arguments.
Maybe if someone updated the OP with this info I wouldnt have to dig and scroll through endless of pages. And finally see one post some facts.
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woah, this is updating faster than code A LR thread. Can't everybody just calm down and wait for more info from the parties involved, this isn't leading anywhere
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On September 20 2011 06:34 Sleight wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:32 Otolia wrote:On September 20 2011 06:28 Gheed wrote:
You don't know the terms of the contract. Nobody but complexity and milenium do. Don't post ignorant shit like this. For all we know, Complexity contracted Stephano not as a salaried employee, but as a contractor who would attend certain events and carry the Complexity tag. What happens if you have carpal tunnel in-between 2 tournaments ? Are you protected by your employer ? So much gray area. Saying it was a contractor agreement makes coL look bad. No, you SHOW UP because you are LEGALLY BOUND. There isn't much to it. Ever had legal obligations? I have. You do them RAIN OR SHINE, bro. Manner up.
I'm sorry, I live in a country where people still have rights. If I am not able to perform what I am supposed to do due to a injury caused by my work, I am still paid by my employer. And all that legally. Upgrade your right dude, you aren't a slave.
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On September 20 2011 06:46 gulbanana wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:31 jmbthirteen wrote:On September 20 2011 06:29 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:25 FlamingTurd wrote:
This is seriously bad. He signed the contract and Millenium is acting like just because he felt like staying that he can disregard that contract. What total BS that whole thing is. no, they're acting like because it wasn't a valid contract he can disregard it. signatures on bits of paper aren't magic. they're private agreements to do commerce, governed by multiple tiers of regulation. in this case, those laws don't allow for such an agreement. How do you know the contract isn't valid? many reasons, but the most obvious one: it wasn't written, coL and mill have said, in French. that's a requirement for employment contracts in France.
There are these magical legal contraptions here called verbal contracts.
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On September 20 2011 06:44 Velocirapture wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:39 euroboy wrote:
Even if he is 18. He said to them on skype YESTERDAY he will join, and they announce it today? Did they fax a contract or what? There are lots of services that allow for the remote signing and verification of contracts. The notion that just because he is in France they couldnt have a real contract is just not true. On twitter it was said that.
"It was a digital contract executed via Docusign.com. Beyond that, I'm not going to get into the legal options we believe that we have. I will say, however, that Millennium's recent live remarks seem to imply they may need a new legal team."
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Hmm. I kinda want to be mad at some one but I'm not sure at who. I guess I'll just wait for more information.
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On September 20 2011 06:46 gulbanana wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:31 jmbthirteen wrote:On September 20 2011 06:29 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:25 FlamingTurd wrote:
This is seriously bad. He signed the contract and Millenium is acting like just because he felt like staying that he can disregard that contract. What total BS that whole thing is. no, they're acting like because it wasn't a valid contract he can disregard it. signatures on bits of paper aren't magic. they're private agreements to do commerce, governed by multiple tiers of regulation. in this case, those laws don't allow for such an agreement. How do you know the contract isn't valid? many reasons, but the most obvious one: it wasn't written, coL and mill have said, in French. that's a requirement for employment contracts in France.
How ambiguous. now cite the french law please.
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On September 20 2011 06:31 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:29 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:25 FlamingTurd wrote:
This is seriously bad. He signed the contract and Millenium is acting like just because he felt like staying that he can disregard that contract. What total BS that whole thing is. no, they're acting like because it wasn't a valid contract he can disregard it. signatures on bits of paper aren't magic. they're private agreements to do commerce, governed by multiple tiers of regulation. in this case, those laws don't allow for such an agreement. You forgot the part that Millenium and Stephano are dodging coL.
i didn't forget that, but i didn't mention it because it is irrelevant to what "FlamingTurd" said.
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On September 20 2011 06:43 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:43 hifriend wrote:
17 year old indecisive kid changed his mind right after signing a contract.. it happens.
Anyway I hope whatever happens stephano ends up on a team he's happy with whether it be millenium, complexity or some other team.
I have to admit I think it's sad that organisations like teamliquid and millenium that invested a lot of money, time and effort into building up great players from scratch are inevitably going to be screwed vs bigger organisations like EG and coL.
A few organisations with big budgets pushing player salaries beyond what was realistically sustainable is exactly what killed wc3 esports. He is 18 years old.
Okay.
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EPT
