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APM measurements changes in 1.4.0 - Page 16

Forum Index > SC2 General
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3clipse
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
Canada2555 Posts
August 27 2011 06:09 GMT
#301
As long as 3rd party APM calculators like sc2gears aren't affected, I don't really care. Their ingame APM calculation is illegitimate anyways seeing as it doesn't measure in real seconds and can't be compared to other rts games or bw.
Angra
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2652 Posts
August 27 2011 06:13 GMT
#302
On August 27 2011 12:59 usethis2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2011 07:39 Angra wrote:
It's absolutely hilarious that people get so upset about others "spamming" and "boosting their APM" that Blizzard has to make a change to it. Guess why the pros actually do it? To warm up their hands and keep a steady pace throughout the game for when they actually have that amount of APM in the late game. Tracking early game APM means literally nothing because it's just players warming up their fingers and setting a pace for themselves, and it seriously makes me laugh that Blizzard cares so much to change it, and NOT EVEN MAKE IT ACTUAL APM STILL. Great works guys, you've definitely fixed the game with this one.

Are you counting those "upset people"? I find it hilarious when someone asserts "everyone is complaining about ..." "geez so many of you are ... ", "Most people are ... ", when those "everyone" "most people" are a minority.


I guess I misspoke. I don't really mean that so many people are upset, more than so many people seem to make a big deal about early game APM, regardless of if it's in a positive light or not, essentially drawing attention to it when it means literally nothing.
Dzerzhinsky
Profile Joined March 2011
Scotland327 Posts
August 27 2011 06:32 GMT
#303
If this makes APM a slightly more useful statistic to look at then it can only be a good thing.

At the moment it can't be considered anything more than a vanity stat since spamming completely overwhelms the actual actions that players are making. Given how much attention is given to the statistic (and will always be given to it) this is pretty detrimental. First because any sort of analysis done around it is fundamentally flawed. And second because it gives a false impression to players trying to learn the game and leads them to focus on improving the wrong things (I've lost count of the number of times I've heard Bronze-Gold players saying that they're concentrating on increasing their APM, which ultimately means spamming instead of having it increase naturally as their macro/micro improves).

A lot of people are saying that it still won't show EAPM, but I'd much rather see a step forward made than no step at all. And on a personal note I'll be mildly curious to see how many of the people who are warming up their hands now switch their spamming to new ways that will be included in the APM tab.
"All science would be superfluous if the outward appearance and the essence of things coincided directly."
ejac
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States1195 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-27 07:06:33
August 27 2011 07:03 GMT
#304
On August 27 2011 15:32 Dzerzhinsky wrote:
If this makes APM a slightly more useful statistic to look at then it can only be a good thing.

No, it makes looking at apm statistic worthless. All this does is reward those who spam in ways approved by blizzard whether by accident or intentionally and punish those who don't. John doe could have 150 apm because 100 of that is spamming right click (approved by blizzard) while John Dane could have 50 apm because he is spamming 456 (not approved by blizzard). The only way to measure/compare apm is to let no spam count or let all spam count.
esq>n
zhurai
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States5660 Posts
August 27 2011 07:11 GMT
#305
On August 27 2011 15:09 3clipse wrote:
As long as 3rd party APM calculators like sc2gears aren't affected, I don't really care. Their ingame APM calculation is illegitimate anyways seeing as it doesn't measure in real seconds and can't be compared to other rts games or bw.

They will be...or at least it doesn't register the "extra APM" from what I get (at least if you turn on the apm counter thing/overlay that sc2gears has, if it's still kept in replay, idk, I haven't tried that....)
Twitter: @zhurai | Site: http://zhurai.com
cascades
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore6122 Posts
August 27 2011 07:18 GMT
#306
Fix the 'minute' part of APM, make it count for 60 REAL seconds, because that is what a 'minute' IS. Damn right.
HS: cascades#1595 || LoL: stoppin
tuho12345
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
4482 Posts
August 27 2011 07:26 GMT
#307
what about clicking ? Still the same or change? My APM is around 80-110 depend on MU. Lol this would mean I will have around 50-60 though( I'm not spamming around in mid game)
SwitchAUS
Profile Joined June 2011
Australia106 Posts
August 27 2011 07:30 GMT
#308
Couldn't really care less about APM, I'll still spam at the start to warm up, and tap to check research timings etc. The measurement makes no difference to how fast I can actually play...
I'm awesome, and I f--k dolphins.
eXeRicH
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany89 Posts
August 27 2011 07:43 GMT
#309
Seriously.
What are they smokin at Blizzard Office?
Remember when they randomly came up with removing the losses out of the profile for everyone below masters?! And now they are changing the way APM are displayed?!
Why making it so unnecessary complicated Blizzard?
Lacking ideas to improve the game reasonably? People are asking for replaysharing for example.
No, they are wasting their time, thinking about useless things like this.

Not appreciated.
if tetris has taught me anything, it's that errors pile up and accomplishments disappear... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Filter
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Canada620 Posts
August 27 2011 07:49 GMT
#310
I don't really get it, all it is now is micro apm. Clicking to move a unit 9 times in basically the same spot is still spam, just as tapping your groups to see whats going on is important.

Why can't they just leave it as is? especially because older patch replays will have the old system etc.
Live hard, live free.
schaf
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany1326 Posts
August 27 2011 07:56 GMT
#311
come on, APM was never any way to compare players. Maybe there is a *minimum* APM to play at a high level (including multitasking etc.) but it's no way to measure your success. The whole APM thing is just a waste of time
Axiom wins more than it loses. Most viewers don't. - <3 TB
Farseer9
Profile Joined August 2011
United States20 Posts
August 27 2011 07:58 GMT
#312
Why does anyone complain about spam in the first place, it doesn't have any benefit so those who choose to spam have every right to do so if it makes them feel better. I think those who think APM is soo important need to realize this is starcraft 2 not Brood War

But the poll pretty much sums up my feelings
//// IMMvp //// SlayerSMMA //// EGPuMa //// STBomber //// mouzThorZaIN //// oGsNaDa //// dSeleCT //// FXOqxc ////
rezoacken
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2719 Posts
August 27 2011 08:04 GMT
#313
I really don't care. I want to see good plays and good micro, never been in awe for some apm numbers.
Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.
Cyber_Cheese
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia3615 Posts
August 27 2011 08:09 GMT
#314
I want to see apm as an accurate figure, to get some idea of how many useful actions the pros are doing, and this is a step in the right direction
The moment you lose confidence in yourself, is the moment the world loses it's confidence in you.
akalarry
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1978 Posts
August 27 2011 08:09 GMT
#315
i dont really care, but i mean, if they are going to have an APM tab, they shouldn't draw an arbitrary line on what is an action or not. so in the end, i think it's kind of dumb.
Eatme
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
Switzerland3919 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-27 08:13:55
August 27 2011 08:11 GMT
#316
Funny move to make something that is already extremely broken even more broken. I have been annoyed at the "blizzard apm" since I started playing sc2 and now they are going to make it even more insignificant. Doubt that it will affect my apm by much but I had aready stopped caring about "blizzard apm" as a measure of apm a year ago.
I've been hoping that they would fix their broken game time and they use their office hours at making something even more wrong than the original blunder. Really confused why they put game time on normal if they didnt plan to use that for default speed anyway.

EDIT:If you spend your game selecting a critter over and over it is still an action and should be counted. APM is not a measurement of skill or intelligence for that matter.
I have the best fucking lawyers in the country including the man they call the Malmis.
Fadetowhite
Profile Joined August 2010
Korea (South)302 Posts
August 27 2011 08:14 GMT
#317
On August 27 2011 17:09 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
I want to see apm as an accurate figure, to get some idea of how many useful actions the pros are doing, and this is a step in the right direction


what you want already exist its called Eapm (effective actions per minutes) however the thing that is discussed is blizzard changing the normal APM to Eapm while still calling it APM which tottaly butchers its meaning.

This in turn will make it so its no way comparable to Broodwar APM with the weird minutes and with it only counting certain things as actions.
메신저
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
August 27 2011 08:27 GMT
#318
On August 27 2011 16:03 ejac wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2011 15:32 Dzerzhinsky wrote:
If this makes APM a slightly more useful statistic to look at then it can only be a good thing.

No, it makes looking at apm statistic worthless. All this does is reward those who spam in ways approved by blizzard whether by accident or intentionally and punish those who don't. John doe could have 150 apm because 100 of that is spamming right click (approved by blizzard) while John Dane could have 50 apm because he is spamming 456 (not approved by blizzard). The only way to measure/compare apm is to let no spam count or let all spam count.

And spamming 456 checking on your production facilities isn't even wasted APM...
Masayume
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Netherlands208 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-27 08:31:07
August 27 2011 08:28 GMT
#319
To all those saying that this will show the true effective actions: Are you dense?

Tapping is not ineffective but essential. Keeping a routine going is not spam, it makes it easier to nail your production rounds perfectly every single time.

APM as it stands now, shows exactly what people are doing, and it is pretty easy to determine which actions are useless and which ones have meaning. If you aren't smart enough to understand that and just see APM as a useless number then sorry, but please educate yourself.

This will be a ridiculous change that only makes it harder to determine what a player is doing in terms of actions and why. Of course there will be spammers that have 200 apm by just switching control groups for fun, but they are easy to spot and only kid themselves.

And EAPM is not the correct word for what it will be in 1.4 if this would be released with it. What may be spam for person A, might be effective actions for player B.

And for the people that get angry or annoyed by the "people spamming hitting 200 apm", are you kidding me? Does that actually piss you off? An ignorable stat for you if you know the person is just being silly and spamming for naught pisses you off? Perhaps you should channel your attention and focus into more important stuff. (perhaps Blizzard can implement a toggle for you guys so the APM display will only show your own APM if you cannot handle "spammers")

Don't change what isn't broke.
Balance. Enjoy the process instead of focusing on musts.
qwertzi
Profile Joined March 2011
111 Posts
August 27 2011 08:42 GMT
#320
rofl,

its funny how so many say its a good thing, and its even more funny that you think that swtiching control groups is spamming... but using 500 clicks for what could be one isnt.. wow!

(i know bw sc2 comparisons are stupid and lame, but i simply have to here)

in bw, controlgroup switching actually meant good multitasking. you prolly had 1-4 control groups for units 5-8 for buildings and 9-0 for nexuses (if u were protoss) and then for map positions u had the F-keys. you had to switch through all buildings to reproduce units. thats why mechanics actually mattered. in bw chart, could check what you used ur actions for, good players had large part of their actions on control groups and buildings.. not so good players did only click around like angry chickens.

so what has changed? control groups are not as important as you have 1-2, building selection is not as important as you can have all of them on one hotkey. thats one reason why apm was not as important in sc2 than it was in bw, thats also the reason why sc2 apm were naturally lower (also wen translated into bw apm) than bw apm, you just had less actions.

but because apm is like the size of your dick, and people were embarrassed with their low apm (although sc2 apm are also different from bw apm) they started clicking like monkeys on crack.

okay the point that I am trying to make is this:

i get that hotkey selection does not have to be counted as unique actions, because it is not as important as it was in bw where you constantly needed to go through all your control groups and buildings. but at the same time, why is useless clicking still counted as unique actions?
i mean having the same unit (group) selected and clicking in the same 10pixel frame within 5 seconds for 10000k times should really not count 10000k actions.
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