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APM measurements changes in 1.4.0 - Page 18

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Grapefruit
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany439 Posts
August 27 2011 16:29 GMT
#341
It blows my mind that some people actually think that this change is "bad".

Seriously, what the fuck?!
Starcraft 2 is funny, everybody picks the race, which he considers to be the weakest. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Xenocryst
Profile Joined December 2010
United States521 Posts
August 27 2011 16:32 GMT
#342
the reason people think it is bad is because people always want a reason to think that they're better than they are...... now apm is gone for them so they're angry
Meatt
Profile Joined September 2010
United States98 Posts
August 27 2011 16:33 GMT
#343
Awesome change. People that are obsessed with apm will now maybe actually improve their game.
There's no fighting in here! This is the War Room!
Glurkenspurk
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1915 Posts
August 27 2011 16:37 GMT
#344
I literally just explained why people apm spam yet there are like 5 posts of people like DURR APM SPAM JUST FOR E PEEN DURR. Does anyone even read?
Masayume
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Netherlands208 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-27 16:45:47
August 27 2011 16:37 GMT
#345
It is a bad change because it does not count certain actions while it does count others.

Going 4-5-6-7 every X seconds to check production/chrono activity/injects or whatever is not ineffective spamming, it's trying to be as spot on as can be with macro.

The new change abolishes all of that, but still leaves in spam clicking as counted actions.

And those that use APM to measure their skill, well let them have their silly bubble, you know wether or not the APM of a player is valid or not, as it can be observed.

Just give an option to switch between measurement systems if it's really going to be implemented because the new system as far as PTR testing goes is majorly flawed.

Edit: Odal, you, me and many more are constantly trying to explain the proper value of APM and how it should be read. But people just seem to be ignorant when it comes to educating themselves and musing over an aspect like APM from every angle before posting.

I just cannot believe that a large amount of posts in this thread try to justify a so far flawed new measurement system so people cannot boast about their start of the game APM anymore.

Hint: people using APM as the end all, be all measure of skill, while not understanding why professional players reach said APM by using effective tapping actions, and then start spamming their own little keys just for APM boosts instead of actual use to boast about it, are just silly.

It is SO easy to seperate a real high APM player that actually uses the APM from a silly person just spamming to get a higher count. The APM system should not be changed in a way that removes the display of tapping routines and selection actions just because of a few silly geese that do not understand how current APM meters should be read.

Seems to me that the average level of posting is declining as of late on TL.

1: Think before you post
2: Try to come up with solutions or added value for discussion
Balance. Enjoy the process instead of focusing on musts.
dhe95
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States1213 Posts
August 27 2011 16:38 GMT
#346
On August 28 2011 01:29 Grapefruit wrote:
It blows my mind that some people actually think that this change is "bad".

Seriously, what the fuck?!

It can be bad because it ruins the original, non-blizzard-related definition of APM. If blizzard is trying to make APM into EAPM, they should just call it an EAPM and leave APM the way it is. They didn't create APM so they shouldn't have the right to change what it stands for.
floor exercise
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada5847 Posts
August 27 2011 16:38 GMT
#347
On August 28 2011 01:33 Meatt wrote:
Awesome change. People that are obsessed with apm will now maybe actually improve their game.

The only people obsessed with apm are the ones trying to change it into something it's not
Far.771
Profile Joined January 2011
United States51 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-27 17:12:22
August 27 2011 17:11 GMT
#348
why has this thread gotten soo much attention. who the fuck even cares. it doesn't make a difference .....at all...for anything...


APM means one thing literally. Actions Per Minute. not how well you can micro. not how fast your reflexes are. not what league you're in. not if you're better than someone else or not. it means actions per minute. that's it. that's all it means, literally.

APM can only be measurable on a personal basis. you can't compare yours to someone elses.

if you do keep track of your own consistently however. you will be able to tell if you're game is speeding up or slowing down if it's gradually trending upwards or downward over ap eriod of time. it's impossible to relate it to someone elses though. because no two people are the same..
Far#771 NA
cekkmt
Profile Joined November 2010
United States352 Posts
August 27 2011 17:15 GMT
#349
Brood war didn't actually count your APM right, you had to run an outside program in the replay to count it, if people were so concerned, why not just start doing this?
Far.771
Profile Joined January 2011
United States51 Posts
August 27 2011 17:20 GMT
#350
On August 27 2011 19:19 RyLai wrote:
While it keeps players from endlessly spamming 123 without even looking at what they're selecting




wtf....!??!!? do you honestly think "spamming" is done as a conscious effort by people in some misplaced retarded hope that someone will open up one of their replays one day and gasp at their "L33T APM" ?!?!!?

i guarantee you the VAST majority of spamming is done out of sheer habit from learning and developing your muscle memory for the game. what the hell difference does it make either way? it's not even a good thing. just like it's not a bad thing. it's just a random ass, arbitrary change to one of the mechanics in the in game meters work.

you people are crazy i swear.
Far#771 NA
Masayume
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Netherlands208 Posts
August 27 2011 17:31 GMT
#351
The reason why I don't like this change is because I can use the APM meter to measure my mechanical improvement. I built up my tapping speed first, then I went to add one task at a time to improve the efficiency in chunks while still having a near constant tapping loop going on.

The meter actually helps me to find the small gaps where my efficiency falters, where it might not be too apparent on the naked eye. It is a handy tool for improvement even at master and higher. You can pinpoint issues faster. Changing the measurement system into something weird and flawed is not really a good change.

Just leave it be, make the new system an optional system that can be toggled, and be done with it.
Balance. Enjoy the process instead of focusing on musts.
ExquisiteRed
Profile Joined February 2011
396 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-27 17:46:11
August 27 2011 17:45 GMT
#352
On August 28 2011 02:31 Masayume wrote:
The reason why I don't like this change is because I can use the APM meter to measure my mechanical improvement. I built up my tapping speed first, then I went to add one task at a time to improve the efficiency in chunks while still having a near constant tapping loop going on.

The meter actually helps me to find the small gaps where my efficiency falters, where it might not be too apparent on the naked eye. It is a handy tool for improvement even at master and higher. You can pinpoint issues faster. Changing the measurement system into something weird and flawed is not really a good change.

Just leave it be, make the new system an optional system that can be toggled, and be done with it.



Pretty much this, I don't spam so I can use apm as a yardstick to measure how much I improve (ie how much faster I get at playing over time while doing the same things). However I do tap, and without that counting there isn't a good way to measure progress in this aspect of my play. Also, people will still find a way to spam regardless of this change (spam clicking ect.) so its pointless. The people who are going hurrr durr e-peen need to think this through a bit more.
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-27 18:07:43
August 27 2011 18:00 GMT
#353
mmm a change to not care about really. I actually like it. If you use the apm thing to improve, you should use an external apm meter anyway. So its quiet nice, though it still counts spamming move and stuff, so not really what i would hope for.

edit: this is one of those changes, that could go in a misc menu under options, but maybe it would produce to much unnecessary resource usage
duct_TAPE
Profile Joined May 2011
492 Posts
August 27 2011 18:04 GMT
#354
APM is not relevant for measuring a whole lot, I don't care about this change.
"WHAT!? but I thought there was only one way in Canada!" "Yeah, and y'all went the wrong direction on it"
kasumimi
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Greece460 Posts
August 27 2011 18:40 GMT
#355
It amazes me that Blizz is going through a process of re-defining apm (cause they can) and yet they don't bother fixing the game clock so that the apm count is calculated with real time.

Classic modern blizzard. Trying to be flashy and cool yet ignoring the fundamental problems.
BuddhaMonk
Profile Joined August 2010
781 Posts
August 27 2011 18:51 GMT
#356
On August 28 2011 01:37 Odal wrote:
I literally just explained why people apm spam yet there are like 5 posts of people like DURR APM SPAM JUST FOR E PEEN DURR. Does anyone even read?


Cycling is useful, but there's plenty of other useless ways to spam. Box selecting your workers over and over again is not useful.
R4TM
Profile Joined June 2011
Brazil140 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-27 19:06:45
August 27 2011 19:05 GMT
#357
Why people are talking stuff like " well this will affect me/ this wont affect me " lol affect in what? apm measure? i think people that stated that should focus on more important starcraft 2 mechanics stuff than rather numbers...

I used to have 230 220 apm, i dont give a fuck if it will go down to 90, so what lol xD
methematics
Profile Joined August 2010
United States392 Posts
August 27 2011 20:33 GMT
#358
this will make bad players feel better because their apm is so low. flipping through binds is a fucking must for managing macro/micro, and if its not counted then people who dont do it wont be differentiated. That being said APM is a necessary but not sufficient condition for skill, meaning you cant be good with 20 apm but you can be complete shit just spamming 1k apm not doing anything. all in all meh on this change, scv count/production/engagements are a better indicator of skill anyways.
SpoR
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States1542 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-27 21:13:07
August 27 2011 21:11 GMT
#359
i think this change is just as stupid as the EAPM thing that happened in BW. It only effects certain spam methods, and when the UI thing is shown in streams and tournaments, you will see some high level players apm drop to noob levels while others still have pretty high rate. and it may even remove certain moments where it looks like spam but its actually not. Say I need to keep running 2 groups around and I keep selecting them back and forth to make sure i can center the location on them and check the wireframe colors.

Besides that, I don't give a fuck if the apm is falsely inflated by spam, the player is still doing XXX actions WHILE THEY ARE COMPETING AT PROFESSIONAL LEVELS. that is skill no matter how you choose to look at it. Just like in speed runs of games they often do cute little wasteful moves or spam motions that look odd/cool even though it adds nothing to the run (or even slows it down). Its just showmanship.

Is there honestly a problem with apm? cant blizzard use their time in a more efficient way than fucking with how the game records apm? if it aint broke dont fix it.
A man is what he thinks about all day long.
PopcornColonel
Profile Joined March 2011
United States769 Posts
August 27 2011 21:25 GMT
#360
After the patch:
245245245 = 1 action (1 for the initial selection made, the rest ignored)
2mmmmmmmm = 9 actions (1 for the selection, 1 for each move issued)
52m52m52m = 6 actions (1 for the initial "5" selection, 1 for each move issued)


I don't understand. Making barracks, factory, and starport units at the same time actually requires APM.and with the 52m52m52m example, is your first hotkey selection the ONLY one counted in your apm? All the other selections would be ignored if this example is the case...

5aadd6ee7dd is more than 9 actions.
Zerg delenda est.
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