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APM measurements changes in 1.4.0 - Page 19

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Zdrastochye
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
August 27 2011 21:26 GMT
#361
The people who have argued that this change is bad, still haven't touched on how it affects players skill in game, and if it doesn't, then this change has no impact on the game at any level. You can still cycle until your hearts content, and if you want to see the speed at which you're doing that in the form of a really big number, then yes you are simply stroking your epeen.

Sad but true.
Hey! How you doin'?
nanaoei
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
3358 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-27 21:53:31
August 27 2011 21:28 GMT
#362
sorry to be ignorant, but is this effective already?? because i tend to be more spammy towards the beginning, and yet my avg. apm throughout a game has shot up a good deal when i've barely changed anything in how i've played at all

edit: ah sorry, upcoming patch

this will be interesting because i'm sure it will affect the mentality of some players.
someone who has not yet reached the top of some sort of their skill ceiling, or someone who is constantly looking for different ways on improving their style is going to come across habits that can be reflected through APM. this statistic will change completely, and if they use that stat. as a gauge, so will their play even if it's ever so slightly.

it might not matter to you, but it matters to some people.

on another note,through teaching/bringing some of my friends over to starcraft and starcraft 2 as newbies, i felt that someone with 60apm was not going to be able to deal with multiple forms of harass while on multiple bases, while still being able to somewhat do whatever it is that they were wanting to do.

anyway i'll leave it at that for now : (
*@boesthius' FF7 nostalgia stream bomb* "we should work on a 'Final Progamer' fangame»whitera can be a protagonist---lastlie: "we save world and then defense it"
ganil
Profile Joined August 2009
253 Posts
August 27 2011 21:34 GMT
#363
I don't even understand why people are arguing about this.

Apm is worthless, it's not gonna change how the game is played.
MooLen
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany501 Posts
August 27 2011 21:38 GMT
#364
fuck i was always proud to have 200 apm now it will be 100 xDDD
IcedBacon
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada906 Posts
August 27 2011 21:38 GMT
#365
This is a pretty dumb change, APM is APM regardless of how much of it is spam. If they care so much about APM values they should've just added in an effective APM tab like what the Broodwar programs all had. Anyways, when I read the title I was hoping Blizzard was finally changing APM to reflect on real time rather than in-game time, disappointed.
"I went Zerg because Artosis is a douchebag." -IdrA
jeparie
Profile Joined December 2010
United States65 Posts
August 27 2011 21:39 GMT
#366
The point is that APM becomes a useless statistic now. Since it no longer actually measures APM, it doesn't really measure anything.

Give it a different name, like effective APM, and add it on. Taking a statistic and butchering it and then claiming that it is still the same statistic just makes it worthless.
qwertzi
Profile Joined March 2011
111 Posts
August 27 2011 21:42 GMT
#367
On August 28 2011 01:37 Odal wrote:
I literally just explained why people apm spam yet there are like 5 posts of people like DURR APM SPAM JUST FOR E PEEN DURR. Does anyone even read?


did the same, ppl never read.. as proves the following:

On August 28 2011 01:29 Grapefruit wrote:
It blows my mind that some people actually think that this change is "bad".

Seriously, what the fuck?!


= dumb

or this:

On August 28 2011 01:32 Xenocryst wrote:
the reason people think it is bad is because people always want a reason to think that they're better than they are...... now apm is gone for them so they're angry


= rofl

tried to explain that as well:
On August 28 2011 01:37 Masayume wrote:
It is a bad change because it does not count certain actions while it does count others.

Going 4-5-6-7 every X seconds to check production/chrono activity/injects or whatever is not ineffective spamming, it's trying to be as spot on as can be with macro.

The new change abolishes all of that, but still leaves in spam clicking as counted actions.

And those that use APM to measure their skill, well let them have their silly bubble, you know wether or not the APM of a player is valid or not, as it can be observed.

Just give an option to switch between measurement systems if it's really going to be implemented because the new system as far as PTR testing goes is majorly flawed.

Edit: Odal, you, me and many more are constantly trying to explain the proper value of APM and how it should be read. But people just seem to be ignorant when it comes to educating themselves and musing over an aspect like APM from every angle before posting.

I just cannot believe that a large amount of posts in this thread try to justify a so far flawed new measurement system so people cannot boast about their start of the game APM anymore.

Hint: people using APM as the end all, be all measure of skill, while not understanding why professional players reach said APM by using effective tapping actions, and then start spamming their own little keys just for APM boosts instead of actual use to boast about it, are just silly.

It is SO easy to seperate a real high APM player that actually uses the APM from a silly person just spamming to get a higher count. The APM system should not be changed in a way that removes the display of tapping routines and selection actions just because of a few silly geese that do not understand how current APM meters should be read.

Seems to me that the average level of posting is declining as of late on TL.

1: Think before you post
2: Try to come up with solutions or added value for discussion


but ppl dont read more than the first post..
usethis2
Profile Joined December 2010
2164 Posts
August 27 2011 22:01 GMT
#368
On August 28 2011 06:26 Zdrastochye wrote:
The people who have argued that this change is bad, still haven't touched on how it affects players skill in game, and if it doesn't, then this change has no impact on the game at any level. You can still cycle until your hearts content, and if you want to see the speed at which you're doing that in the form of a really big number, then yes you are simply stroking your epeen.

Sad but true.

Completely agree with this point of view and it's very to the point. People, this new APM measurement does NOT stop you from cycling around your hotkeys. You can do whatever you want with your hotkeys like you have been doing. It won't affect your skill nor win/loss. If you're upset because you can't see how fast you're doing that.. then yeah, it's more of a e-peen thing than anything else.

There *might* be some folks who actually measure their skill improvement with how fast they have been cycling, but I have to assume those are minority and they will not stop improving their skills because of this.

Besides which, it is irritating for casters to compare APM between the players in the middle of a game and attempt to leave impression to viewers who's better player, who's higher-level, who's with BW-background and whatnot. And this game is not BW. It's always puzzling to see people try to draw parallel between SC2 and BW.
IcedBacon
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada906 Posts
August 27 2011 23:11 GMT
#369
On August 28 2011 07:01 usethis2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 28 2011 06:26 Zdrastochye wrote:
The people who have argued that this change is bad, still haven't touched on how it affects players skill in game, and if it doesn't, then this change has no impact on the game at any level. You can still cycle until your hearts content, and if you want to see the speed at which you're doing that in the form of a really big number, then yes you are simply stroking your epeen.

Sad but true.

Completely agree with this point of view and it's very to the point. People, this new APM measurement does NOT stop you from cycling around your hotkeys. You can do whatever you want with your hotkeys like you have been doing. It won't affect your skill nor win/loss. If you're upset because you can't see how fast you're doing that.. then yeah, it's more of a e-peen thing than anything else.

There *might* be some folks who actually measure their skill improvement with how fast they have been cycling, but I have to assume those are minority and they will not stop improving their skills because of this.

Besides which, it is irritating for casters to compare APM between the players in the middle of a game and attempt to leave impression to viewers who's better player, who's higher-level, who's with BW-background and whatnot. And this game is not BW. It's always puzzling to see people try to draw parallel between SC2 and BW.


Too bad no one GAINS anything from this change so it makes it completely useless. As for casters making too big a deal about APM, that's their problem being bad casters and not a problem with the APM system.
"I went Zerg because Artosis is a douchebag." -IdrA
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-27 23:39:47
August 27 2011 23:38 GMT
#370
On August 28 2011 08:11 IcedBacon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 28 2011 07:01 usethis2 wrote:
On August 28 2011 06:26 Zdrastochye wrote:
The people who have argued that this change is bad, still haven't touched on how it affects players skill in game, and if it doesn't, then this change has no impact on the game at any level. You can still cycle until your hearts content, and if you want to see the speed at which you're doing that in the form of a really big number, then yes you are simply stroking your epeen.

Sad but true.

Completely agree with this point of view and it's very to the point. People, this new APM measurement does NOT stop you from cycling around your hotkeys. You can do whatever you want with your hotkeys like you have been doing. It won't affect your skill nor win/loss. If you're upset because you can't see how fast you're doing that.. then yeah, it's more of a e-peen thing than anything else.

There *might* be some folks who actually measure their skill improvement with how fast they have been cycling, but I have to assume those are minority and they will not stop improving their skills because of this.

Besides which, it is irritating for casters to compare APM between the players in the middle of a game and attempt to leave impression to viewers who's better player, who's higher-level, who's with BW-background and whatnot. And this game is not BW. It's always puzzling to see people try to draw parallel between SC2 and BW.


Too bad no one GAINS anything from this change so it makes it completely useless. As for casters making too big a deal about APM, that's their problem being bad casters and not a problem with the APM system.


I dunno it's pretty cool watching top players who if you check their FPPOV during a battle, theyll be doing various shit with their units but also go 456 to check on their macro - it's HOW they stay on top of macro during big fights!

The only APM change I'm interested is making it measured in real minutes instead of game minutes. All this change does is make the statistic measure nothing. It still doesn't measure EAPM, because there's still spam clicking move actions to the same location and shit like that.
dest1ny
Profile Joined September 2010
Ukraine2 Posts
August 28 2011 05:09 GMT
#371
If every valid action needs to be synchronized with the server, and players spam 300-400 APM at the beginning of the game by selecting workers, it makes perfect sense to find a workaround.
I think the intention was not to redefine the term APM by filtering actions, but rather to reduce the bandwidth usage.
LetoAtreides82
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1188 Posts
August 28 2011 05:11 GMT
#372
apm is irrelevant, results is what matters.
The spice must flow
Audi309
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States90 Posts
August 28 2011 05:20 GMT
#373
"Repeated control group and selection commands will no longer count as unique actions for APM calculation purposes."


Maybe it's just me, but the way I read this, "245245245" still will count as 9 actions, given that they aren't being repeatedly selected. I think this would be ideal, as it allows a player diligently tapping to see an increased apm, whereas someone simply spamming 444444444 doesn't.
Scisyhp
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States200 Posts
August 28 2011 05:22 GMT
#374
All this changes is a number shown only in the replay. The only time you would need to look at your apm in a replay is to try to get an idea of how fast you are playing and how well you are multitasking and this will help you do that. Completely for the change.
Kambing
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1176 Posts
August 28 2011 06:16 GMT
#375
On August 28 2011 14:20 Audi309 wrote:
Show nested quote +
"Repeated control group and selection commands will no longer count as unique actions for APM calculation purposes."


Maybe it's just me, but the way I read this, "245245245" still will count as 9 actions, given that they aren't being repeatedly selected. I think this would be ideal, as it allows a player diligently tapping to see an increased apm, whereas someone simply spamming 444444444 doesn't.


Tested on the PTR. It counts as 1.
Dhalphir
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia1305 Posts
August 28 2011 06:19 GMT
#376
I really don't see why this was necessary. Some people just like to measure their APM, whether its effective or useful APM or not. It didn't hurt anyone.

If they wanted a stat that showed Effective APM, they should have just made a new stat that showed it. Now this stat is called "Actions Per Minute" but it doesn't actually show your Actions Per Minute anymore.
Supporting TypeII Gaming - www.typeii.net - TypeReaL, TypePhoeNix, TypeSuN, TypeDBS!!
infinity2k9
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom2397 Posts
August 28 2011 06:24 GMT
#377
On August 28 2011 14:09 dest1ny wrote:
If every valid action needs to be synchronized with the server, and players spam 300-400 APM at the beginning of the game by selecting workers, it makes perfect sense to find a workaround.
I think the intention was not to redefine the term APM by filtering actions, but rather to reduce the bandwidth usage.


I would suspect it's still going to send the action?? How can the game predict if you intend to do another action when you choose a group? It has to send all info in case you do move the group.
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4748 Posts
August 28 2011 06:28 GMT
#378
All actions should be counted, to fit the term "Actions Per Minute". what they could do is not count multiple identical selections in a row, such as "9mmmmmmmm" (would not apply to control groups, as double clicking has a use, centering the screen on whatever it is).
"It is therefore only at the birth of a society that one can be completely logical in the laws. When you see a people enjoying this advantage, do not hasten to conclude that it is wise; think rather that it is young." -Alexis de Tocqueville
Demonace34
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2493 Posts
August 28 2011 06:31 GMT
#379
I just did a couple test games between PTR and the live patch as of now. I average around 150-175 now and around 70-80 on the PTR. Just funny to actually see the cycling through and looking at your gate/robo/tech structures doesn't actually give you any APM in the new patch. I could care less either way, splitting and micro apm is actually going to show through more.
NaNiwa|IdrA|HuK|iNcontroL|Jinro|NonY|Day[9]|PuMa|HerO|MMA|NesTea|NaDa|Boxer|Ryung|
iMAniaC
Profile Joined March 2010
Norway703 Posts
August 28 2011 06:39 GMT
#380
In general, I'm a fan of giving the end users the option to decide for themselves. Instead of Blizz saying "You don't want LAN", I want there to be both LAN and Battle.net and then I can decide for myself. I don't want Blizz saying "You don't want chat rooms", I want there to be chat rooms and then I can decide for myself whether to use them or not. And I don't want Blizz saying "You don't want to see your rate of tapping". I want there to be an option to see both "APM" and "Effective APM" and then I can decide for myself which one to use. Exactly what actions should be considered "Effective APM" is less important to me, because I simply expect Blizz to do it right, and the important part is the idea of giving the end user as much functionality as possible. Especially when the code for tapping APM is already written.
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