The above post is correct to me, they are just redefining terms by changing this basically. Yes you can spam to make your APM higher. Why was that ever an issue. I find it to be a useful measurement in it's normal form.. we wouldn't have made tools to measure it if it wasn't. We also have eAPM for what Blizzard is trying to do. What looks like a pointless action could be me simply checking my groups because i want to see what's going on? Selecting a group is a valid action that doesn't need a follow up, if you don't count it then it's not even APM anymore. When i see my BW APM as 170 i know that i did some decent (for my standards) multitask when muta harassing. If it's lower i try harder.

You could still find a way to spam your APM up if there was any reason to...

Aiurr

Poland80 Posts

August 28 2011 07:16 GMT

#382

So... if I never spam and only click as much as really necessary, then my APM will be higher comparing to the other players after this patch?

Klyberess

Sweden345 Posts

August 28 2011 07:31 GMT

#383

So now the "Actions" only mean some of the actions, and the "Minute" isn't even real minutes.

.

I guess the "Per" still applies.

qwertzi

111 Posts

August 28 2011 09:06 GMT

#384

On August 28 2011 16:31 Klyberess wrote:
So now the "Actions" only mean some of the actions, and the "Minute" isn't even real minutes.

.

I guess the "Per" still applies.

HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA

thats a good one!

Dakota_Fanning

Hungary2371 Posts

August 28 2011 10:02 GMT

#385

On August 28 2011 16:31 Klyberess wrote:
So now the "Actions" only mean some of the actions, and the "Minute" isn't even real minutes.

.

I guess the "Per" still applies.

They will soon rename APM to SAPBM (Some Actions Per Blizzard Minute).

shindigs

United States4795 Posts

August 28 2011 10:13 GMT

#386

Actually interested to see my "real" APM, but its not going to stop me from spamming. In the early game, I think most players agree it keeps them warmed up and focused. I don't mind the change at all really, but it seems like a change my casual SC2 friends would make who actually get annoyed when they see people spam, like its some injustice they're artificially inflating their e-peen.

I guess for newer players it'll help you realize that actions are better spent on something useful and APM != skill, but most people who really can sustain 200apm+ already know that. Maybe I'm just being a grumpy BW hipster.

DoctorHelvetica

United States15034 Posts

August 28 2011 12:32 GMT

#387

On August 28 2011 19:13 shindigs wrote:
Actually interested to see my "real" APM, but its not going to stop me from spamming. In the early game, I think most players agree it keeps them warmed up and focused. I don't mind the change at all really, but it seems like a change my casual SC2 friends would make who actually get annoyed when they see people spam, like its some injustice they're artificially inflating their e-peen.

I guess for newer players it'll help you realize that actions are better spent on something useful and APM != skill, but most people who really can sustain 200apm+ already know that. Maybe I'm just being a grumpy BW hipster.

No you're right. It's easier to go from a state of motion (spam) to something needed. Spamming increases your reaction times and when you're not a great player as you get better you learn to fill that empty APM (spam) with needed actions. It's useful.

Racaoo

United Kingdom3 Posts

August 28 2011 12:42 GMT

#388

Anyone who is against this change, want to start a petition to send to blizzard?

Grumbels

Netherlands7032 Posts

August 28 2011 12:48 GMT

#389

If anyone remembers, before release there was a lot of chatter from Browder about creating useful statistics so that a player could track his progress and so on. The APM tab and the floating minerals statistic at the end of the game are essentially what remains of that. There are some other stats too, but those aren't really useful for tracking your own improvement.

What I would like to see is a wider array of stats available that battle.net saves for you and can display in a progress-over-time graph, so you can see how much better you have become purely mechanically.
Some people are fixated on APM, but it's not the most useful statistic out there - at least, I can think of several more interesting ones: actions broken up in selections, commands, screen switching. Effective actions per minute. How much you use your production facilities, how low your energy for macro mechanics stays, and so on.

XenoX101

Australia729 Posts

August 28 2011 13:54 GMT

#390

On August 28 2011 16:31 Klyberess wrote:
So now the "Actions" only mean some of the actions, and the "Minute" isn't even real minutes.

.

I guess the "Per" still applies.

Well played

Shamrock_

South Africa276 Posts

August 28 2011 14:00 GMT

#391

I don't really like the change at all. I don't think it's gonna be a big deal, I just like viewing my APM because if I can keep it up over the game I find myself playing better. If I 2-rax without APM spamming I end up making stupid mistakes. APM doesn't mean much, but for me I like being able to look at replays and see if I'm getting faster or something.

mrlie3

Canada350 Posts

August 28 2011 14:11 GMT

#392

I think this actually makes unrealistic measurement on true apm... sometimes u spam 122343321 to check the status of units (hp, location, upgrade time left, unit build time left) and it's actually a valuable action for players. Counting that as non-action sounds odd to me.

Zeevo

148 Posts

August 28 2011 14:37 GMT

#393

Why do you torture us like this blizzard?

DooMDash

United States1015 Posts

August 28 2011 16:27 GMT

#394

Kinda silly to change it this late, will be hard to see how I am doing for awhile.

Doodsmack

United States7224 Posts

August 28 2011 16:41 GMT

#395

I think the people claiming APM is a useful stat are either a) criticizing Blizzard for the sake of criticizing Blizzard or b) focusing on a superficial stat when actual gameplay results would be more useful. You claim you need spam apm to keep track of your progress, when in fact it's much easier and clearer to keep track of progress by looking at what actually happens in your games. Are you keeping up on upgrades, keeping your money low, doing what you need to do with your army on the map, etc? You don't need a number to answer those questions for you. If I had to guess I'd say you just want a big APM number because you think it's cool/makes you look good.

Banchan

United States179 Posts

August 28 2011 16:49 GMT

#396

I personally only spam apm at the beginning of the game, and I don't even spam APM at the beginning of the game anymore because I check TL, change music, and force mining from the close patches instead
I think this will encourage (some) people to force their workers to mine from close patches instead of spamming 123123123123123123123123123123123123123123123123, which is a good thing

DJFaqU

466 Posts

August 28 2011 16:54 GMT

#397

Maybe now people can stop giving a fuck about actions that are completely useless.

StefooL

France3 Posts

August 28 2011 18:00 GMT

#398

"you have 2 and 4 bound to drones

[...]

Before the patch:
245245245 = 9 actions (1 for each selection made)"

Maybe there is a little mistake here. You don't actually have APM if you spam 2 and 4 (without any action between each) and if these groups have the SAME units in it. It equals to do nothing, and i made the test to check.
At the moment it's 6 actions that are counted, and it will be only 1.

Would I be wrong ?

Masayume

Netherlands208 Posts

August 28 2011 18:02 GMT

#399

And yet again someone posts an uneducated one liner that adds absolutely nothing to this discussion. I guess it's destined for the thread to get drowned out. Gg gl to anyone trying to bring reason to this discussion, I'm done.

Kambing

United States1176 Posts

August 28 2011 18:04 GMT

#400

On August 29 2011 03:00 StefooL wrote:
"you have 2 and 4 bound to drones

[...]

Before the patch:
245245245 = 9 actions (1 for each selection made)"

Maybe there is a little mistake here. You don't actually have APM if you spam 2 and 4 (without any action between each) and if these groups have the SAME units in it. It equals to do nothing, and i made the test to check.
At the moment it's 6 actions that are counted, and it will be only 1.

Would I be wrong ?

If 2 and 4 are bound to the same drone, then you're right. If they're bound to separate drones, then they count as separate actions. When I wrote that, I assumed they were separate drones (naturally, since that is my opening hotkey setup and left-hand spam).