EPTDesignated Balance Discussion Thread - Page 913
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LibertyRises
United States175 Posts
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Pirfiktshon
United States1072 Posts
actually i think terran just needs a little late game buff, and no i dont think they need a stronger unit or something like that, they just need a way to get a quicker at with army after fights like protoss got with warp ins and zergs got with larva... so what about bringing in a late late game building from the singleplayer called the mercenary bay. this would be really great way to get some fast units after a trade or lost fight... they dont need to be actually mercenaries with better things... does anybody like that idea... wouldnt change to much and is quite a help in lategame fro terran... Oh if only it was that simple... how do you define Late game.... you can run through the entire tech tree way before a defined "Late Game". So not just enforcing such a building would be difficult but balancing it so it actually had some good use so its not up or op would be near impossible. BUUTTTT you are thinking my friend and I like it so keep it up  E: Your idea brings up a more subtle situation though.... Terran units need the staying power because of the other mechanics of the races.... and they simply don't that's why you ask anyone what is the max # of bases terran needs to be super stronk and noone truly knows.... where as zerg gets 4-5 base thats it you are fighting a losing battle same with Toss 4 bases pretty much you just lost the game somewhere along the way in the match LOL Terran has to trade extremely efficient more so than the other races to win and constantly keep the minerals streaming in which Mules balance taht out somewhat but the production of Terran is essentially slower than the other 2 races even protoss... If you subtract the walking distance from the gateway to where its warped in then in situations like frost you can make the production time essentially Nil if not 7 seconds or less.... lol | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
On February 21 2014 22:45 Pirfiktshon wrote: Oh if only it was that simple... how do you define Late game.... you can run through the entire tech tree way before a defined "Late Game". So not just enforcing such a building would be difficult but balancing it so it actually had some good use so its not up or op would be near impossible. BUUTTTT you are thinking my friend and I like it so keep it up How about an economies of scale building? You cannot purchase units 1 by 1, but you can buy eg. 50 marines for 3000 mins (that might be too extreme, both in quantity and cost, but it should illustrate the concept). You cannot really float that many minerals in the early game without dying, so the option only become available in the late game. You also need to pay a little extra for the instant build time. It should probably constrained to barracks units, I can imagine 15 tanks being a bit imba. This mechanic would make it unfavourable to turtle it out against a terran: unless you're trading, you're going to have a production disadvantage once the terran is allowed to get a bank. (I guess zerg has the advantage that it can produce a large quantity of high tech units, with a build time, though...) | ||
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Pirfiktshon
United States1072 Posts
For instance your description of how this works is almost how Zerg works with the Larvae mechanic... yet larvae is a complicated mechanic and you won't have the larvae to produce like that unless you have good strong mechanics in order to micro and macro ( IE Larvae inject) so .... should we get rid of the supply drop ( which we all know is not something that even should be a mechanic in the game LOL seriously the most ill conceived idea hahaha ) and replace it with a Larvae inject style ability ? E: Kind of like an overbuild ability 50 energy use on a production building ( CANNOT BE USED ON CC ) where you cast it on a building and it produces 1 extra unit at a time.. so essentially you can produce 3 marines out of a reactored Rax? | ||
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LibertyRises
United States175 Posts
On February 21 2014 23:07 Pirfiktshon wrote: again this is a good idea but then the other problem arises how do you make a mechanic rewarding for the player to use.... For instance your description of how this works is almost how Zerg works with the Larvae mechanic... yet larvae is a complicated mechanic and you won't have the larvae to produce like that unless you have good strong mechanics in order to micro and macro ( IE Larvae inject) so .... should we get rid of the supply drop ( which we all know is not something that even should be a mechanic in the game LOL seriously the most ill conceived idea hahaha ) and replace it with a Larvae inject style ability ? E: Kind of like an overbuild ability 50 energy use on a production building ( CANNOT BE USED ON CC ) where you cast it on a building and it produces 1 extra unit at a time.. so essentially you can produce 3 marines out of a reactored Rax? goes to show how starbow developers are just ahead of the curve... | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
On February 21 2014 23:07 Pirfiktshon wrote: again this is a good idea but then the other problem arises how do you make a mechanic rewarding for the player to use.... For instance your description of how this works is almost how Zerg works with the Larvae mechanic... yet larvae is a complicated mechanic and you won't have the larvae to produce like that unless you have good strong mechanics in order to micro and macro ( IE Larvae inject) so .... should we get rid of the supply drop ( which we all know is not something that even should be a mechanic in the game LOL seriously the most ill conceived idea hahaha ) and replace it with a Larvae inject style ability ? E: Kind of like an overbuild ability 50 energy use on a production building ( CANNOT BE USED ON CC ) where you cast it on a building and it produces 1 extra unit at a time.. so essentially you can produce 3 marines out of a reactored Rax? Is the mechanical difficulty required with such an ability? It's not like having 5+ hatches, or 15 gateways is difficult, but it would give you a similar amount of production even without injects and chrono. I mean, you could always say that if you draw HELP on the map with supply depot's, that will launch the marines... But it would be silly as anything. | ||
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Pirfiktshon
United States1072 Posts
Is the mechanical difficulty required with such an ability? It's not like having 5+ hatches, or 15 gateways is difficult, but it would give you a similar amount of production even without injects and chrono. I mean, you could always say that if you draw HELP on the map with supply depot's, that will launch the marines... But it would be silly as anything. In a Vacuum no its actually quite simple.... but when you are microing in multiple locations mounting assaults and using abilities these macro features take up time... time that can be used elsewhere so having something that takes time makes you make a decision on what to do when and practice so that you can be faster so that you can fit more mechanical things into your que so you can be a multi-tasking powerhouse E: Which in turn creates a ceiling of skill so that it is clearly seen between players the skill that is shown.... | ||
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LibertyRises
United States175 Posts
On February 21 2014 23:55 Ghanburighan wrote: Is the mechanical difficulty required with such an ability? It's not like having 5+ hatches, or 15 gateways is difficult, but it would give you a similar amount of production even without injects and chrono. I mean, you could always say that if you draw HELP on the map with supply depot's, that will launch the marines... But it would be silly as anything. Isnt that just like chronoboost what hes suggesting? If you cant beat em join em. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
On February 13 2014 00:08 Ghanburighan wrote: + Show Spoiler + It's a while since we saw Aligulac lists, here's 103 (finished Feb the 5th) and the ongoing list 104 below it. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/p7HMQ50.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/aS3RsuG.png) Summary for T: PvT is looking bad, and terran representation is lousy. Updated Aligulac list 104: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/5aB28fZ.png) Summary, it only got worse. | ||
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Orek
1665 Posts
TvT is an endangered species, and so will be the Terran race itself at this rate. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/nm3FUSu.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/t9Um2Yp.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/91ZetIm.png) http://aligulac.com/periods/ | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
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Grumbels
Netherlands7028 Posts
edit: *headache* ;_; | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On February 26 2014 02:11 Chaggi wrote: When was that super low PvT period? 1/1/1? No it's HotS, probably Hellbat drop abuse or idk. | ||
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On February 26 2014 02:17 Grumbels wrote: Why are there more non-mirrors than mirrors? I know it could be because in every tournament, if there are, say, eight terrans then there can be eight TvZ/P match-ups, but only seven TvTs, but it still seems like there are only very few of them. Assuming even race distribution, Let say you are Terran, your opponent is T,Z or P. It is mirror 1/3 of the time and non mirror 2/3rds. | ||
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Orek
1665 Posts
On February 26 2014 02:11 Chaggi wrote: When was that super low PvT period? 1/1/1? List 85 Start May 16th, 2013 End May 29th, 2013 I forgot what PvT was like back then. On February 26 2014 02:17 Grumbels wrote: Why are there more non-mirrors than mirrors? I know it could be because in every tournament, if there are, say, eight terrans then there can be eight TvZ/P match-ups, but only seven TvTs, but it still seems like there are only very few of them. I'm sure that's not how math works. Simply put, a non-mirror is about twice as likely to happen as a mirror. In an ideal(?) world with perfect balance, infinate number of players + ignoring tournament format, Non-mirror = 2/9 = 22.2% Mirror = 1/9 = 11.1% More accurately, if I'm not mistaken, when there are "n" players per race, # of possible player combinations = combination(3n,2) =(9n^2-3n)/2 ...(a) # of non-mirror player combinations = n*n = n^2 ...(b) # of mirror player combinations = combination(n,2) = (n^2-n)/2 ...(c) So, for a non-mirror, the probability is (b) / (a) = (2n^2) / (9n^2-3n) ...(d) for a mirror, (c) / (a) = (n^2-n) / (9n^2-3n) ...(e) For example, for Ro32, n=32 is big enough that we can assume about 22% for a non-mirror and 11% for a mirror for a particular match. Note that the limits of (d) and (e) are 2/9 and 1/9 respectively as n approaches infinity. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. | ||
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Pursuit_
United States1330 Posts
On February 24 2014 18:12 Ghanburighan wrote: Updated Aligulac list 104: Summary, it only got worse. It's all good, somehow Terran is pulling ahead as the leading race! | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On February 26 2014 03:36 Pursuit_ wrote: It's all good, somehow Terran is pulling ahead as the leading race! I really wonder what that means, really, it's been months that terran is the leading race. | ||
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Frex
Finland888 Posts
On February 26 2014 03:44 Faust852 wrote: I really wonder what that means, really, it's been months that terran is the leading race. I think it is about players like Mvp being at the top despite not playing almost any games for a long time. | ||
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Thrasymachus725
Canada527 Posts
This would force the Toss to use units to defend rather than rely on the nexus, allow focus firing to overcome the defence, and remove the "0 aggression possible" problem in the early game. It would reward micro from both sides, and can retain relevance throughout the game. | ||
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