EPTJust let the koreans stand by their decision and hopefully by season 3 when they realise puma has been paid and their deposits from season 1 returned, that they were silly to not paricipate in season 2 because now the prize is doubled and staying in the leaugue itself would of paid for itself.
TiG Opinion Article on NASL Situation - Page 2
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T0fuuu
Australia2275 Posts
Just let the koreans stand by their decision and hopefully by season 3 when they realise puma has been paid and their deposits from season 1 returned, that they were silly to not paricipate in season 2 because now the prize is doubled and staying in the leaugue itself would of paid for itself. | ||
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LuciferSC
Canada535 Posts
On August 12 2011 16:25 Diglett wrote: so why did they play in the qualifiers in the first place? if you don't want to join, just don't join. So many people are misinformed about the situation. NASL obviously made a play of words when they released their statement. Check this out - from SC2Guy No they did not bail out. They tried to discuss with NASL but NASL chose to ignore the problems and go ahead with filming. I shall quote an extract from my original post. ------------------------------------------------------- In preparation for Season 2, it was made known to us by Mr.Chae of the GSL that the Korean teams threatened to withdraw from the NASL unless several demands were made: 1) pay for 100% of travel and accommodation cost for the Grand Finals and 2) remove the security deposit. The concerns of the Korean teams, as expressed to us by Mr.Chae were that it is difficult for Koreans to travel to the USA given their generally lower level of sponsorship, and secondly that they don’t think Koreans should have to pay to enter the event [despite the fact that we refund all security deposits, making the league free to play barring any penalties]. >> Okay, via Mr Chae, they made their conditions for continuing their participation in NASL season 2. Note how I avoided the use of the word 'demands'. I do not see anything wrong with making those requests. In an effort to try to ease the difficulty of travel, we managed to double our travel budget to $1,000 per player in addition to the minimum prize of $500. Unfortunately, we were notified August 9th (our 2nd day of filming) that this offer was unacceptable, and that Koreans were withdrawing from the league. We presented a final offer, one which redistributed our prize pool to guarantee each player $2,000 (a $1,000 minimum prize in addition to the $1,000 travel stipend). We feel that, for a 1/16 chance at winning up to $40,000, $2,000 is more than fair accommodation expense to get players to come. Despite our best efforts, the Korean teams still have declined participation. >> In the earlier paragraph you say "In preparation for Season 2, it was made known to us by Mr.Chae" bla bla bla... this was well ahead of Season 2 starting. Then NASL proceeded to continue filming when the issue was not settled (notified August 9th - our 2nd day of filming). I really wonder who's fault this is? We are disappointed that the Korean Committee waited until the final hour, not only to make these demands but also to notify us of their withdrawal. We would like to apologize to our fans who wanted to see these players participate in the NASL and to the Korean players who hoped to participate. While we do respect the Committee’s decision, we wish it had been made in a more timely manner that did not interrupt the start of our season. >> Not final hour. You chose to ignore the existing issues and started filming. They notified NASL during the prepartion for Season 2. -------------------------------------------------------[/QUOTE] | ||
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thee telescopes
321 Posts
On August 12 2011 16:27 fraktoasters wrote: Gom really has to provide housing considering it would take two months before you could win any money, though.this is a pretty ridiculous statement when you remember all the things Gom provides to foreigners in the gom foreigner house. | ||
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Goldfish
2230 Posts
NASL is starting out and more tournaments = better for eSports (yeah there are dozens of other tournaments but NASL is one of the bigger ones at least in terms of prizes). I'm glad that there are still Koreans like Rain competing still. Rain is the next bonjwa for SC2 >.>: Hey you know how Flash cheesed a lot at first? Rain did the same thing too. Coincidence? I think not. So I think it's a good deal. Future bonjwa Rain, the fOu team (thanks to deal with FXO), and Puma (thanks to EG) are still going to be in the tournament (all Koreans should be placed in separate groups though so they can all make it to the finals >.>). | ||
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namedplayer
844 Posts
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Scereye
Austria154 Posts
First they state $500 = Half the cost of the ticket When they get offered $1000 Bucks per player (Ticket solved) and an edited prizepool (so every player at grand final gets an additional min. $1000 (solves the lodging i guess...?). And they are still not satisfied? Sorry but dont come up with arguments, i understand the schedule for the games is horrible for Koreans. But its not like NASL wouldnt pay shit... Other then that i totally understand the Desicion of the Korean teams. | ||
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backtoback
Canada1276 Posts
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Nayl
Canada413 Posts
Even if what this article says is true, SC2con has absolutely no right to bar players from attending the event, if they want to. The $1000 stipend+ $1000 prize money for being in Ro16 more than makes up for travel expense for the player and they should be able to participate if they want to. | ||
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LuciferSC
Canada535 Posts
On August 12 2011 16:38 Scereye wrote: So, the main reason is the cost of tickets/lodging... First they state $500 = Half the cost of the ticket When they get offered $1000 Bucks per player (Ticket solved) and an edited prizepool (so every player at grand final gets an additional min. $1000 (solves the lodging i guess...?). And they are still not satisfied? Sorry but dont come up with arguments, i understand the schedule for the games is horrible for Koreans. But its not like NASL wouldnt pay shit... Other then that i totally understand the Desicion of the Korean teams. No NASL offered $1000 bucks per player and that's it. They did not offer $2000, as $1000 of that is a part of the prize money that players are supposed to get. Therefore, the other $1000 of that $2000 is money coming out of the player's pocket. And no $1000 does not cover the air flight ticket. | ||
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LuciferSC
Canada535 Posts
On August 12 2011 16:38 backtoback wrote: I can really see why korean sc2 players have left korean teams. SC2Con is so strict and I can not really blame NASL for having no koreans next season. The result of 1st place is just too great and the koreans are complaining about a few thousand dollars per person. They really need to loosen up or it will hurt e-sports in the future. and please be conscious of that fact that SC2Con did open up a negotiating line with NASL, they were NOT committed to participating in NASL according to what NASL's statement says. (read my above post quoting SC2Guy above if you do not understand this) SC2Con has every right to pull out of an event when their demanded negotiation condition was not met. | ||
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Azzur
Australia6259 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=225324 Chae Jung Won, the head of GomTV manage team "Can't understand foreigner's rejection" GSL Super Tournament begins in coming May 23rd with top 64 GSL point rankers. Super tournament has made issues by making competition of both code A and code S players, but unfortunately many foreigners, except Chris 'Huk' Loranger and Jonathan 'Jinro' Walsh, has rejected invitations. Lots of foreign fans complain and criticize about such news, and says 'this happens because it is so hard to beat Koreans.' Also the manager of team Fnatic complained that "the invitaion of Super Tournament from GomTV came out in rush." PlayXP was able to hear opinion of Chae Jung Won, the head of Manage team in GomTV (also main caster of GSL), during presentation of new format change of GSL in May 19th. Mr. Chae said, "We gave the same amount of warning time as we did with World Championship. I do not understand the reason of rejection since they were able to participate in World Championship." The prize of participating World Championship was about 3,000,000 Won. (about 2700 USD) But in Super Tournament, if you qualify RO32 you will be guaranteed to have 1,000,000 Won. (about 900 USD) Of course you can't be sure until you hear from players, the prize pool , the chance of winning the tournament, and the travel cost are the most probable reason to reject invitation. In fact, Dmytro 'Dimaga' Filipchuk spoke during the interview after World Championship that "It is very difficult to stay in Korea for long term since I have a girl friend and family. There are many online tournaments in Europe. That is why playing in Europe is much better choice for me." Mr. Chae also spoke about his opinion on providing code S spot for foreign players. "I don't think GSL is same level as MLG. I believe foreign fans also think same as me. There is notable difference between the seed for Koreans to MLG Championship and the seed for foreigners to GSL code S." About question of making barrier for players in code A to promote in code S through Up and Down match, he said "The ability of player is what they can make win in Up and Down match. If you lose your Up and Down match, then you can't advance to code S. But we made change so winner of code A can advance without Up and Down match." Written by: Lee Si Woo (siwoo@playxp.com) (C) PlayXP The money that a player earns for even making to the ro32 of the ST is LESS than what the teams would get from qualifying for the NASL finals and Mr Chae "Can't understand foreigner's rejection". There are certainly valid reasons for non-NASL participation but to blame it on travel fees smacks of double standards. On the flip-side, I didn't appreciate NASL's hostile stance on the matter and their slow handling of money. Still, I believe NASL is going to struggle to survive without the koreans. | ||
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Scereye
Austria154 Posts
On August 12 2011 16:39 LuciferSC wrote: No NASL offered $1000 bucks per player and that's it. They did not offer $2000, as $1000 of that is a part of the prize money that players are supposed to get. Therefore, the other $1000 of that $2000 is money coming out of the player's pocket. And no $1000 does not cover the air flight ticket. "The Grand Finall was even worse. Players had to pay all of the bill for transportation, lodging, and meal. NASL gave $500 to each player who join the Grand Final but it just half of tickets and lodging. Some players can slove it to deduction in their prize. Then they can get the ticket and lodging" $500*2= $1000? Plus, i understand that the teams already calculate the Prize Pool as their own money, but people read this stuff like they want to. When we read the "korean side" its the poor players which cant afford the costs (except the top players which win anyway). But when it comes to an Prizepool change from side of the NASL thats not acceptable either. Dont get me wrong, i totally understand the reasoning of the Koreans teams behind that. But i dislike how its written that NASL wouldnt have tried to get it to work. At the end of the day NASL cant just throw away hundreds and thousands of dollars. I would love to read a statement which is more like: "We (Koreans) AND Nasl are sorry to announce we couldnt get it to work" -End of Discussion- But instead we get some e-drama kinda stuff blaming each other why it didnt work out. | ||
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Tleaf
Canada181 Posts
On August 12 2011 16:42 Azzur wrote: I bring you at statement by Mr Chae, head of GOM, who is also part of the SC2Con: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=225324 The money that a player earns for even making to the ro32 of the ST is LESS than what the teams would get from qualifying for the NASL finals and Mr Chae "Can't understand foreigner's rejection". There are certainly valid reasons for non-NASL participation but to blame it on travel fees smacks of double standards. On the flip-side, I didn't appreciate NASL's hostile stance on the matter and their slow handling of money. I agree I think having the korean's play is amazing and without them its just not as interesting to me and I feel they really helped generated revenue for NASL but I hope the league does well regardless | ||
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fraktoasters
United States617 Posts
On August 12 2011 16:45 Scereye wrote: "The Grand Finall was even worse. Players had to pay all of the bill for transportation, lodging, and meal. NASL gave $500 to each player who join the Grand Final but it just half of tickets and lodging. Some players can slove it to deduction in their prize. Then they can get the ticket and lodging" $500*2= $1000? Plus, i understand that the teams already calculate the Prize Pool as their own money, but people read this stuff like they want to. When we read the "korean side" its the poor players which cant afford the costs (except the top players which win anyway). But when it comes to an Prizepool change from side of the NASL thats not acceptable either. Dont get me wrong, i totally understand the reasoning of the Koreans teams behind that. But i dislike how its written that NASL wouldnt have tried to get it to work. At the end of the day NASL cant just throw away hundreds and thousands of dollars. I would love to read a statement which is more like: "We (Koreans) AND Nasl are sorry to announce we couldnt get it to work" -End of Discussion- But instead we get some e-drama kinda stuff blaming each other why it didnt work out. The 1000$ was what NASL was willing negotiate for season 2.. 500$ was what they got for season 1. And no, it's not right for people to speak for others so they can't just go "We (Koreans) and Nasl.." | ||
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
Also, the security-posit-argument is ridiculous - something like that is completely, like 100% common in every business contract "outside" esports. You can't ensure performance of your counterpart, therefore you demand money to have leverage. I have never been against koreans joining the NASL, but if they feel mistreated and make strange demands I won't miss them and enjoy their play in GSL and to some extent MLG instead. | ||
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Blackmamba851
Ireland52 Posts
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FryktSkyene
United States1327 Posts
The fuck ? | ||
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LuciferSC
Canada535 Posts
On August 12 2011 16:45 Scereye wrote: "The Grand Finall was even worse. Players had to pay all of the bill for transportation, lodging, and meal. NASL gave $500 to each player who join the Grand Final but it just half of tickets and lodging. Some players can slove it to deduction in their prize. Then they can get the ticket and lodging" $500*2= $1000? Plus, i understand that the teams already calculate the Prize Pool as their own money, but people read this stuff like they want to. When we read the "korean side" its the poor players which cant afford the costs (except the top players which win anyway). But when it comes to an Prizepool change from side of the NASL thats not acceptable either. Dont get me wrong, i totally understand the reasoning of the Koreans teams behind that. But i dislike how its written that NASL wouldnt have tried to get it to work. At the end of the day NASL cant just throw away hundreds and thousands of dollars. I would love to read a statement which is more like: "We (Koreans) AND Nasl are sorry to announce we couldnt get it to work" -End of Discussion- But instead we get some e-drama kinda stuff blaming each other why it didnt work out. It is probably true that it's unfair to pin the blame of the failed negotiation on just one side. So I do take that one back. So I'd now say the blame is on both parties for failing to reach a consensus as the qualifier was under progress. | ||
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azr
Norway144 Posts
On August 12 2011 16:25 EchoZ wrote: Not all Korean teams can afford to fork out such amounts. Besides, GOM and MLG have previously sponsored players back and forth, with GOM taking the extra step with the teamhouse, so I fail to see why NASL can't? Because NASL isn't sponsored by companies like Blizzard, Coke and Pepsi. | ||
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jupidar
United States229 Posts
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