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BlazeFury01
United States1460 Posts
On August 13 2011 00:16 Sein wrote: You mean NSAEOTSL? Might as well call it "Non-Korean Star League" or NKSL. And why does everything have to be Korean-Based? We still have Dreamhack, MLG, Blizzcon, IEM, WCG. | ||
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Liudo
United Kingdom344 Posts
On August 12 2011 23:12 chatuka wrote: It's simple math guys. Teams have to pay 1700 to send their korean players to NASL teams are given 1000 dollars by NASL. + Players keep the 1000 dollars if after they reach the round of 16. = teams can't afford to send their players to NASL Team cost to go to America for each player=1700 dollars. team compensation by NASL= 1000 Player compensation by NASL for rd 16=1000 NASl cost to the Korean teams and players at the rd 16=2000 It's simple math. Just adjust the values and make a new agreement with SC2con, a tri-lateral contract. Team cost to go to america=1700 Team compensation by NASL=1700 Player compensation by NASL for rd 16=300 NASL cost for Korean teams and Players to the RD of 16=2000 Likely hood that a Korean player gets past the round of 16= very high what is not to like about this deal. I have no idea about the exact numbers and such, but I really agree with you that it seems negotations have failed more than anything else. That they can't work this out together suggests some really bad negotiating skills somewhere. | ||
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ronpaul012
United States769 Posts
On August 12 2011 23:52 LuciferSC wrote: Yes 2k would be plenty.. I'd imagine, except that NASL's providing them with 1k, not 2k. With that said, I agree with some of you when you say that 5 Koreans in the tournament is suffice of a number. While the only reason NASL season 2 was going to have such great number of Koreans is simply due to the fact that they have the skill to pass through the qualifying rounds, it is a western tournament and I'd like to see them retain that 'westerness' (very subjective and personal opinion) well, 1k guaranteed for travel, so essentially the plane ticket would be mostly covered for free. There also guaranteed 1k in prize money. So it would be literally impossible for them to lose money, they'd have nothing to gain but the possibility of 50k. I'm really interested to find out if the players on these teams agree with the decision. We will never know for sure, but if they don't like the decision then this could back-fire very quickly on the managers. | ||
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whateverpeeps
United States214 Posts
On August 12 2011 23:55 tripper688 wrote: You can disagree but it doesn't make you correct. Unless you have a contract from the qualifiers explicitly obligating participation in the upcoming league, they aren't bound to do anything. Invites are turned down all the time. Even Code A and Code S spots are played for and then discarded. I fail to see how it's any different for NASL. You say it's unacceptable for Koreans to boycott after Season 2 starts. How is that relevant when the announced start date was 8/30/11? Unless you count qualifiers as when the events start in which case, that's still the fault of NASL for not scheduling ANY down time between 2 seasons to work out the kinks in their event. They notified NASL of their grievances and their threat to withdraw in preparation for season 2. Doesn't sound to me like they got together a day before the tournament starts (at the end of this month...) to say pay us more or we leave and you're screwed. The fact that NASL decided to go ahead with a tournament and start filming and preparations without finishing contracts for a quarter of their players and having no contingency has nothing to do with Koreans. That's just sloppy organization and management. I'm not sure how your arguments have any legs to stand on. And why do you think you are in a position of correctness? I read the OP. It states that Koreans expressed issues prior to season 2 starting, but were still in negotiation with NASL. They made their FINAL decision to boycott AFTER NASL started filming season 2. Could this decision not be made any sooner? I believe it could have, and I believe it was intentionally not done so because it is a very common business practice to put your negotiator in a tight position and more yielding to demands. I've also assumed there was some agreement, whether contracted or verbal, that made NASL continue filming season 2 despite the negotiations being ongoing. It seems to me that the boycott caught NASL off guard, which implies that this was not an expected outcome. And I think NASL would have expected it had the SC2Con been more explicit and outspoken about not willing to participate.. The truth is I don't think they were because I really don't think they DON'T want to participate in the NASL. I think they do, but are playing hard-ball. Perhaps NASL should have been more cautious about what's going to happen with the situation, but, it's a two way street. You cannot blame this entirely on NASL and say it's sloppy organization - organization is not the question here at all. There is no connection between what is happening and NASL's organization, and to make a connection is to reach for straws. After all, NASL seems to have already taken up to finding replacements and has not issued a delay of season 2, which implies their organization did account for bad luck. It's just crappy that they were put in this situation in the first place, when it could have been avoided. If SC2Con had no intention about playing in Season 2, it is a point that should have been made well aware to the NASL. The boycott should have been decided much earlier on, not after filming. There is no good excuse for that. It seems to me that negotiations and issues were presented early on, but the SC2Con lead NASL to believe it would be resolved in time for season 2. Both are to blame then....NASL for not being cautious and SC2Con for not being more expedient and transparent. | ||
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Sein
United States1811 Posts
On August 13 2011 00:20 BlazeFury01 wrote: And why does everything have to be Korean-Based? We still have Dreamhack, MLG, Blizzcon, IEM, WCG. Not sure why you're replying to that post, but what do you mean "Korean based"? Dreamhack is Korean based, how? | ||
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DyEnasTy
United States3714 Posts
On August 13 2011 00:23 Sein wrote: Not sure why you're replying to that post, but what do you mean "Korean based"? Dreamhack is Korean based, how? I think he just means tournaments with alot of koreans participating. | ||
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ComaDose
Canada10357 Posts
 I hope NASL is rich enough to support the needs of the Korean players for season 4 ;p I guess ill still give them my 25 dollars. | ||
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Misery[BH]
United States29 Posts
On August 13 2011 00:19 BlazeFury01 wrote: Exactly, which is why the best SC players are on brood war which proves my point lol The players "currently on brood war" have superior mechanics and superior control which is why they are able to play the game. SC2 is much easier in keyboard control, macroing and microing compared to SC1. SC2 is also like 12 years younger than Broodwar and has yet to develop quite a lot of different strategies and styles There are a hundreds different intricacies that will take forever to master and perfect. Just from watching GSL/GSTL this morning I watched a player stop his mule from mining before it picked up 30 minerals and self destructed, and Leenock did a spine crawler push with an overlord shitting creep against a protoss. The amount of things you're able to do and the strategic planning and execution required to be a top tier player is insane. I don't even know what you're trying to argue, but it's silly. | ||
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Rabid Zerg
Canada2 Posts
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Ryka
United Kingdom254 Posts
Sad that it failed but I look forward to seeing which koreans will still attend and who will replace the departing koreans. I'd assume PuMa, MC, NaDa, Rain, Hero would still attend due to the foreign team contracts. | ||
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ArchDC
Malaysia1996 Posts
On August 13 2011 00:06 Tourniquett wrote: This is completely normal for Korean business deals. I worked in Korea as an ESL teacher and my company screwed me over, oh and my girlfriend got screwed over, oh and 6 of my international friends did too (and they screwed us over at the last minute, they refused to pay thousands of dollars in wages). Not to mention that all of us worked for different companies so it seems more indicative of culture than individuals (yes we were always on time and prepared). The moral of the story? Korean business practices are DIRTY!!!! (maybe they've learned from us? =P) You are going to get banned... | ||
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tripper688
United States569 Posts
On August 13 2011 00:01 Sein wrote: So, you want to kick out Morrow, TLO, Fenix, WhiteRa, Sjow, Darkforce, Moman, Moonglade, Strelok, HasuObs, Bratok, Mana, Socke, Thorzain, and Nightend. Yeah, go right on ahead. Nope, Thorzain had enough of NASL his first time around. Same as Nani although not as outspoken about it. On August 13 2011 00:06 BlazeFury01 wrote: Just because he thinks the tournament should consist of NA players due to the name of the tourney doesn't mean that it will lack competitiveness. With a prize pool that big how could it not be competitive? ...Yes, it'll be competitive because everyone is mediocre. Is that the type of competitiveness you want to see? The talent and skill simply isn't here yet. Throwing money at it won't solve the problem. Actually practicing against the best and learning from them would. On August 13 2011 00:06 Tourniquett wrote: This is completely normal for Korean business deals. I worked in Korea as an ESL teacher and my company screwed me over, oh and my girlfriend got screwed over, oh and 6 of my international friends did too (and they screwed us over at the last minute, they refused to pay thousands of dollars in wages). Not to mention that all of us worked for different companies so it seems more indicative of culture than individuals (yes we were always on time and prepared). The moral of the story? Korean business practices are DIRTY!!!! (maybe they've learned from us? =P) The moral of the story? You didn't read the post or the thread. The Koreans had no contract, were in negotiations since the preparation for season 2 and to top it all off, NASL decided not to have a contingency should the Koreans walk. That's not dirty Korean business practices, that's sloppy NASL management. On August 13 2011 00:06 NoLimit028 wrote: I don't understand why they wouldn't just play, that's like free money for them. It's a 3 month commitment to playing at bad times, in poor conditions, and disrupting your (and your team's) practice regimen as well as affecting your participation in other leagues. Maybe from a financial standpoint it's free but the cost of time and opportunity is higher than most other events except GSL...which is more prestigious by far. On August 13 2011 00:08 mythandier wrote: This is sad news indeed but it won't stop me from watching NASL: S2. I think with all the kinks that got worked out from Season 1 that Season 2 will be much better all around. The fact that some of the best players in the world aren't going to attend doesn't really effect me at all since...some of the best players in the world will still be here. More like the fact that most of the best players in the world aren't going to attend doesn't really effect you because a few of the best players will still be here? :/ That's why most people are bummed out. If it really was close as you say (the skill gap), people wouldn't be talking about not watching NASL because it lost most of it's meaningful games. On August 13 2011 00:16 Sein wrote: You mean NSAEOTSL? Might as well call it "Non-Korean Star League" or NKSL. We'll just call it + Show Spoiler + the minor leagues | ||
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CeriseCherries
6170 Posts
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DaNoob
United States38 Posts
On August 12 2011 08:17 Smurphy wrote: Koreans out? MC July Zenio Moon Squirtle NaDa Ace Ensnare Alive Clide Revival MarineKing SC TOP Well, at least 6/14 koreans are terran, so the % of good terrans will be less... Less TvT in the grand finals! | ||
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BlazeFury01
United States1460 Posts
On August 13 2011 00:23 Sein wrote: Not sure why you're replying to that post, but what do you mean "Korean based"? Dreamhack is Korean based, how? I was replying to the name of his title. "Non-Korean Star League" thus surrounding Korea considering NA and European korean natives would still be able to participate just not players that are Korean natives currently living there. They already have a majority of GSL tournaments and Leagues along with IEM, WCG, etc. Europens and Americans need tournaments too. | ||
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mythandier
United States828 Posts
I enjoy the NASL and don't want it to die -- so if it is going to suffer viewership due to losing Korean teams then I'm more than willing to step up and help support league. I suggest anyone else who is passionate about the NASL/e-sports/SC2 do the same. | ||
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BaekHo
Korea (South)153 Posts
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
On August 13 2011 00:16 Sein wrote: You mean NSAEOTSL? Might as well call it "Non-Korean Star League" or NKSL. might be confused for the north korean star league. that would be a bit weird | ||
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whateverpeeps
United States214 Posts
On August 13 2011 00:28 tripper688 wrote: Nope, Thorzain had enough of NASL his first time around. Same as Nani although not as outspoken about it. Thorzain was never in Season 1. He chose not to participate because had already made commitments that would interfere with playing in the NASL. | ||
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Misery[BH]
United States29 Posts
On August 13 2011 00:30 mythandier wrote: This news has actually compelled me even more to buy a pass for next season. I enjoy the NASL and don't want it to die -- so if it is going to suffer viewership due to losing Korean teams then I'm more than willing to step up and help support league. I suggest anyone else who is passionate about the NASL/e-sports/SC2 do the same. I'm on board I hope the foreigner scene steps up the competitive level and kicks some ass. People can criticize every little thing they want, but I was incredibly impressed by the event for it being as new as it was. Even with the production issues they had, the real judgement will be to see what they've improved on in season 2. | ||
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