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'TSL expelled from SC2 Conference' - Page 9

Forum Index > SC2 General
1124 CommentsPost a Reply
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StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
August 04 2011 12:28 GMT
#161
No one was forcing them to stay man. They could have left anytime they wanted. Once again it was verbal.
TheSilverfox
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden1928 Posts
August 04 2011 12:28 GMT
#162
On August 04 2011 21:06 xBillehx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 04 2011 21:01 TheSilverfox wrote:
On August 04 2011 20:57 xBillehx wrote:
Just some tidbits of information:
S2con = SC2's version of KeSPA = Coaches, players association & GOM. They have the power to ban people from GSL/GSTL, make the rules for SC2 atm (referee's) & arbitrate disputes but are pretty lenient on most things. With TSL removed, it's now made up of FoU (Now FXO?), IM, oGs, Prime, ZeNEX, NSHoseo, StarTale & MVP. (SlayerS is not part of this but more like a partner)

SC2pa = players association. The players have a voice in the association that makes the rules so when there's a dispute between players and their teams, they're able to bring it up to s2con for help. The players association is mainly represented by (Z)Junwi, who's the president voted in by most sc2 players at the time. (last year)


But is TSL removed from the S2con? The article only talks about the SC2pa and that TSL is not a part of the player association anymore.

Yes they're no longer part of S2con because they withdrew. Their logo is no longer at the bottom of http://s2con.com/


Thank you!

So basically we right now have a sitution with 8 teams who are members and 3 that are not:

Members of SC2con and SC2pa:
FXO (fOu)
IM
oGs
Prime
Zenex
HoSeo
ST
MVP

Not members of SC2con and SC2pa:
SlayerS
TSL
WeMade FOX

Also known as Joinsimon on Twitter/Reddit
sleepingdog
Profile Joined August 2008
Austria6145 Posts
August 04 2011 12:28 GMT
#163
On August 04 2011 21:19 Navichi wrote:
I think it's a really deplorable move by Trickster and Fruitdealer to not practice and continue collecting salary. Yes there might be 1 thing standing in the contract but Starcraft 2 is struggling in Korea right now, the money is extremely tight (many managers having to constantly think about keeping their balance positive instead of being able to focus on building their team) and many many many pro-gamers are not getting what they deserve. There is an extreme depth in the korean player pool and it makes me sad to see Trickster and FruitDealer in Code S and A respectively when there are literally hundreds of other players we barely know anything of, who are more skilled and could provide us with better games.
They work their asses off, training 10 hours/day for the better part of their youth, and all for very few recognition / money.

If FD and Trickster have decided to stop practising they should, imo, retire and let younger and more motivated players take their spot. I mean ... they haven't shown good games in what .. almost a year now? :/


We should talk about FD and Trickster seperately. Trickster is still code S which DAMN many players try to achieve nowadays.

As long as he stays code S his demands are justified in my opinion. Actually, even though he never had his huge success as many predicted, he is one of the most stable code S players.
"You see....YOU SEE..." © 2010 Sen
Zarahtra
Profile Joined May 2010
Iceland4053 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-04 12:30:57
August 04 2011 12:29 GMT
#164
On August 04 2011 20:36 sleepingdog wrote:
Wow, this is some Code S drama we got here.

Honestly, it fits quite right in the drama surrounding Puma as well....I'm wondering how many are still of the opinion that it wasn't right for Puma to start talking with EG?
I'm 99% sure he knew what was going on with FD/Tester and just wanted to get the hell out of there.

This just makes so much more sense now.

I'm still on the opinion that the whole EG thing went down quite wrong(that is on EG side of things), but this explains Puma's actions clearer.

Everyone has always said Lee is quite standup guy/coach, so this is a bit of a shock indeed. But yer I still understand him a bit, if the players are being lazy, do they truely deserve the salary they were promised? If there was no contract, both sides seem to have violated the oral contract, one side isn't pulling the amount of practise, the other isn't paying.
Tuczniak
Profile Joined September 2010
1561 Posts
August 04 2011 12:29 GMT
#165
The SCV life (TSL) is sure not easy.

At least they didn't send them to scout enemy base.
Quintum_
Profile Joined May 2011
United States669 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-04 12:31:25
August 04 2011 12:30 GMT
#166
I wonder if FD/Trickster where under contract because if they where it does not matter how "lazy" or "badly preforming" they where as long as they where meeting there obligations. If that is the case TSL coach had no right to cut there pay, If they were not then the TSL coach had every right to cut there pay.

The other thing is you dont lie to your players about how much you are bringing in, cut there pay as required for underperformance but dont try and hide how much money you are making from them.
♠ (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ ♠ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ♠ (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻ ♠
poorbeggarman
Profile Joined August 2010
139 Posts
August 04 2011 12:31 GMT
#167
On August 04 2011 21:26 hyptonic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 04 2011 21:22 poorbeggarman wrote:
On August 04 2011 21:16 hyptonic wrote:
On August 04 2011 21:11 poorbeggarman wrote:
On August 04 2011 21:05 hyptonic wrote:
On August 04 2011 21:03 holycrapitsTony wrote:
I was wondering why TSL was dropping players like flies. Sounds like Coach Lee isn't nearly as nice of a guy as people would let on. I'm still not passing any judgment until I hear a bit more about this story. People were very kneejerk about the EG scandal and now they're flip flopping to support them in this whole thing. Maybe if we would all relax and wait to hear all of the facts, we could support better conclusions.


Well, SangHo and Clide liked Coach Lee and TSL enough to give their money back to him.

The cases of FD/Tester/Puma were a bit strange to me tbh.

FD/Tester - Already left 1 team, admit to not playing much
Puma - First SC2 success ever at big foreign event -- wants more


Or, they were forced to give him the money back.Probably wasn't much anyway, since he lied to them that they weren't getting money from sponsors.

FD, Tester and Puma leaving is just additional proof that TSL management is rotten to the core, ha!

And now y'all getting juked by another sob story.


That's why SangHo and Clide talk about how much they love TSL right? FD/Tester and Puma stories are completely separated. It's not about being rotten. It's about being financially strained. And frankly, I don't know what FD/Tester are doing. They don't play, they aren't top players anymore. They don't deserve the money they want.


Dude, I'd take FD,tester and Puma's stories over SangHo,Clide and Mr.Lee.

1.Spontaneously witholding wages
2.Manager lied about sponsor funding
3.Slandering players
4.Using images of former players

TSL not credible.


Ummm, FD/Tester/Puma haven't given any stories. Wtf are you talking about?

And besides, why would you take the stories of nonpracting teamhoppers over loyal players who give back?


You said yourself there were FD,Tester,Puma stories, wtf are you on about now?

How do you know they're nonpracticing teamhoppers? From TSL testimony? Those loyal players "who give back" could also very well be players suffering under TSL management, forced to put up a pristine front to try to keep going till they make it big, so that they can transfer over to some other team.
openbox1
Profile Joined March 2011
1393 Posts
August 04 2011 12:31 GMT
#168
On August 04 2011 21:29 Tuczniak wrote:
The SCV life (TSL) is sure not easy.

At least they didn't send them to scout enemy base.


This cracked me up. Thanks for bringing a smile to my face.
kellymilkies
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Singapore1393 Posts
August 04 2011 12:32 GMT
#169
Oh dear.
Be the change you wish to see in the world ^-^V //
zeru
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
8156 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-04 12:33:18
August 04 2011 12:32 GMT
#170
--- Nuked ---
xBillehx
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States1289 Posts
August 04 2011 12:32 GMT
#171
Overall I feel pretty bad for Coach Lee. TSL is a good team but they've hit a rough patch over the past few months. Hopefully everything works out and they get some good sponsorship to alleviate the financial troubles.
Taengoo ♥
Tachion
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada8573 Posts
August 04 2011 12:34 GMT
#172
So if TSL is still allowed to participate in the GSTL and all that, why does this SC2 Conference matter? And what is the difference between that and the player association? One is run by the players, the other by the team managers? Do their words hold any weight whatsoever?

Would be great if someone knew the specifics of how these things work :o
i was driving down the road this november eve and spotted a hitchhiker walking down the street. i pulled over and saw that it was only a tree. i uprooted it and put it in my trunk. do trees like marshmallow peeps? cause that's all i have and will have.
hyptonic
Profile Joined June 2011
2155 Posts
August 04 2011 12:35 GMT
#173
On August 04 2011 21:31 poorbeggarman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 04 2011 21:26 hyptonic wrote:
On August 04 2011 21:22 poorbeggarman wrote:
On August 04 2011 21:16 hyptonic wrote:
On August 04 2011 21:11 poorbeggarman wrote:
On August 04 2011 21:05 hyptonic wrote:
On August 04 2011 21:03 holycrapitsTony wrote:
I was wondering why TSL was dropping players like flies. Sounds like Coach Lee isn't nearly as nice of a guy as people would let on. I'm still not passing any judgment until I hear a bit more about this story. People were very kneejerk about the EG scandal and now they're flip flopping to support them in this whole thing. Maybe if we would all relax and wait to hear all of the facts, we could support better conclusions.


Well, SangHo and Clide liked Coach Lee and TSL enough to give their money back to him.

The cases of FD/Tester/Puma were a bit strange to me tbh.

FD/Tester - Already left 1 team, admit to not playing much
Puma - First SC2 success ever at big foreign event -- wants more


Or, they were forced to give him the money back.Probably wasn't much anyway, since he lied to them that they weren't getting money from sponsors.

FD, Tester and Puma leaving is just additional proof that TSL management is rotten to the core, ha!

And now y'all getting juked by another sob story.


That's why SangHo and Clide talk about how much they love TSL right? FD/Tester and Puma stories are completely separated. It's not about being rotten. It's about being financially strained. And frankly, I don't know what FD/Tester are doing. They don't play, they aren't top players anymore. They don't deserve the money they want.


Dude, I'd take FD,tester and Puma's stories over SangHo,Clide and Mr.Lee.

1.Spontaneously witholding wages
2.Manager lied about sponsor funding
3.Slandering players
4.Using images of former players

TSL not credible.


Ummm, FD/Tester/Puma haven't given any stories. Wtf are you talking about?

And besides, why would you take the stories of nonpracting teamhoppers over loyal players who give back?


You said yourself there were FD,Tester,Puma stories, wtf are you on about now?

How do you know they're nonpracticing teamhoppers? From TSL testimony? Those loyal players "who give back" could also very well be players suffering under TSL management, forced to put up a pristine front to try to keep going till they make it big, so that they can transfer over to some other team.


By stories I meant there decisions to leave there teams. I did not mean to imply testimonies.

They have given their reason to S2Con but we haven't gotten them. You using things that don't even exist to us shows that you are blindly attacking TSL.

FruitDealer/Tester are teamhoppers in the sense that is their 3rd SC2 team now (oGs -> TSL -> ST). They have played on more teams than any other SC2 player I'm pretty sure.

Their reasons for leaving oGs? Too much practicing and not enough play time.
Reason for leaving TSL? Not getting paid because they didn't practice.

You have to see this from both perspectives. This story will stay unsolved until we learn the true agreement between TSL and FD/Tester
Novalisk
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Israel1818 Posts
August 04 2011 12:36 GMT
#174
I'm guessing Coach Lee was giving the korean teams a bad name with his unprofessional comments regarding FD, Tester, Puma, and EG.
/commercial
farnham
Profile Joined January 2011
1378 Posts
August 04 2011 12:38 GMT
#175
so eg and puma are suddenly not evil eh?
Madder
Profile Joined February 2010
Australia427 Posts
August 04 2011 12:38 GMT
#176
On August 04 2011 21:36 Novalisk wrote:
I'm guessing Coach Lee was giving the korean teams a bad name with his unprofessional comments regarding FD, Tester, Puma, and EG.

And I'm guessing EG was giving the foreign community a great reputation with their player dealings.
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
August 04 2011 12:38 GMT
#177
On August 04 2011 21:34 Tachion wrote:
So if TSL is still allowed to participate in the GSTL and all that, why does this SC2 Conference matter? And what is the difference between that and the player association? One is run by the players, the other by the team managers? Do their words hold any weight whatsoever?

Would be great if someone knew the specifics of how these things work :o



It doesn't. The Association is still very young and to top it off their priorities have been steered off course with such nonsense as this and the fact policy hasn't been written in stone yet. There's all kinds of logistical issues with this.
Jiddra
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden2685 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-04 12:43:54
August 04 2011 12:42 GMT
#178
There seems to be even more drama in the release from TSL, they didn't find the judging from Sc2con to be unbiased and fair. They talk about lies during the meeting and tricksters statement getting to much of an influence on the decision.

This if you belive what people are trying to get out of the TSL statement. Would be nice with a translation.
I am not young enough to know everything.
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-04 12:43:37
August 04 2011 12:42 GMT
#179
On August 04 2011 21:38 Madder wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 04 2011 21:36 Novalisk wrote:
I'm guessing Coach Lee was giving the korean teams a bad name with his unprofessional comments regarding FD, Tester, Puma, and EG.

And I'm guessing EG was giving the foreign community a great reputation with their player dealings.


If you snipe a player from my team I wouldn't be happy either. He has every right to tell his side of the story.

Like I said before, he is nothing but a scapegoat for the Association and for ongoing conduct. They are making an example so team managers will always have some sort of written contract with their players and they're trying to make sure that these type of situations don't arise again.

On August 04 2011 21:42 Jiddra wrote:
There seems to be even more drama in the release from TSL, they didn't find the judging from Sc2con to be unbiased and fair. They talk about lies during the meeting and tricksters statement getting to much of an influence on the decision.

This if you belive what people are trying to get out of the TSL statement.


Yup.
Antoine
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States7481 Posts
August 04 2011 12:45 GMT
#180
On August 04 2011 20:43 chrisv10 wrote:
TSL response:
http://sc2tsl.com/bbs/board.php?bo_table=61&wr_id=2016&page=0&sca=&sfl=&stx=&sst=&sod=&spt=0&page=0

can somebody please do a full translation of this?
ModeratorFlash Sea Action Snow Midas | TheStC Ret Tyler MC | RIP 우정호
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