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Wow, people are talking about Korean culture as if they're the fucking red indian signing over his land for a handful of beads because he has no idea what a contract is.
Permit me to quote myself from page 205 of that monstrosity of a thread:
On July 22 2011 05:23 bonifaceviii wrote:Guys, I know not a lot of you follow market news but this is happening, like, right now. All the marketing executives of Research in Motion are getting sniped by Samsung (a KOREAN company).Show nested quote +As RIM engages in layoffs, weathers investor criticism, and struggles to reassert itself in the mobile industry, the company may be facing something of a brain drain: a senior product manager for RIM’s PlayBook tablet, Ryan Bidan, has jumped ship to Samsung Mobile to service as director of product marketing—at least according to his LInkedIn profile.
The move comes barely a month after RIM’s chief marketing office Brain Wallace left the company for Samsung; that defection, in term, followed only a few months after the departure of Keith Pardy, who had headed up RIM’s BlackBerry marketing efforts. At the time, RIM did not announce a replacement, instead indicating co-CEO Jim Balsillie would be taking on more promotional duties.
The move comes after the lackluster launch of the BlackBerry PlayBook, which has so far failed to meet sales expectations and has generally been greeted with half-hearted reviews that the device simply was not ready for market.
Industry watchers speculate RIM may be in for more high-level defections as the company continues to engage in layoffs. Dissatisfaction within the company seem high; RIM recently had to take the unusual step of publicly responding to an open letter, apparently from a high-level RIM exec, outlining eight steps he or she believed would be critical to turning the company around. The author of the letter claimed to be articulating concerns from a “huge percentage” of RIM’s employee base. When your company is imploding, other companies will come and make offers to your talent. It's just business.
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On July 22 2011 23:24 kdmx wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 22:56 Psychobabas wrote:On July 22 2011 22:41 DukeEsquire wrote:On July 22 2011 12:50 oxxo wrote:On July 22 2011 12:41 Vinx wrote:
I may be a just an asshole but when I got to this part "At first, we wanted him on a contract, and so did the other teammates. But we did not feel it was necessary at the time since everyone showed so much passion and commitment. I trusted him, but now I am regretting my decision [to put off the contract] a little bit." I just went... .r u kidding, its the 2011.... that whole part about honor and respect is kinda gone... i'm sad about it too but still know its a reality. Asian and Asian-American culture is very different than Western culture about 'honor and respect' in things like this. As an Asian, I think that culture is major BS. It's always "honor and respect" when the employer asks you to do things like work overtime without pay or not take a pay raise. But then when the employee wants a raise, the employer doesn't care about honor and respect. What the employer doesn't understand is that honor and respect has to go both ways. PuMa left because he obviously wasn't treated in a way that he felt was honorable and respectful towards him. I'm sure he is getting a pay upgrade with EG as well as more opportunity to play foreign tournaments. TSL was artificially handicapping him and the only honorable and respectful thing to do was for PuMa to leave. If TSL wanted to lock down PuMA then PAY THE MAN. It's like every other sport in the world. If you want to keep an athlete on the team, them pay him extra to sign a contract. Otherwise, tough luck. Someone give this guy a medal. My thoughts exactly. Honour and respect are such easy words to throw around. But when you're working tons of unpaid overtime with nothing in return it borders exploitation. The sad thing is that it's not restricted to the local culture. Japanese/ Koreans/ Chinese who work in large Asian companies within the UK (London especially) basically dont have a life from Monday to Friday (and possible Saturday) no matter what UK legislation says and all that. I'm glad to see Puma actually make a tough decision and do what he wants to do. It's not just in the UK or Asia, Asian companies specifically Chinese companies that operate in the US regularly exploit their employees. Long work hours, little or no benefits, low pay, and little if any vacation time. They generally only hire Asian workers because they think that Asians are more willing to put up with these type of work conditions. I worked for a chinese company after college and it makes me want to boycott everything coming out of China. People claiming that Asian cultures put an emphasis on honor and respect obviously never worked for an Asian company.
I think in the end we are all humans.
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On July 23 2011 01:25 bonifaceviii wrote:Wow, people are talking about Korean culture as if they're the fucking red indian signing over his land for a handful of beads because he has no idea what a contract is. Permit me to quote myself from page 205 of that monstrosity of a thread: Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 05:23 bonifaceviii wrote:Guys, I know not a lot of you follow market news but this is happening, like, right now. All the marketing executives of Research in Motion are getting sniped by Samsung (a KOREAN company).As RIM engages in layoffs, weathers investor criticism, and struggles to reassert itself in the mobile industry, the company may be facing something of a brain drain: a senior product manager for RIM’s PlayBook tablet, Ryan Bidan, has jumped ship to Samsung Mobile to service as director of product marketing—at least according to his LInkedIn profile.
The move comes barely a month after RIM’s chief marketing office Brain Wallace left the company for Samsung; that defection, in term, followed only a few months after the departure of Keith Pardy, who had headed up RIM’s BlackBerry marketing efforts. At the time, RIM did not announce a replacement, instead indicating co-CEO Jim Balsillie would be taking on more promotional duties.
The move comes after the lackluster launch of the BlackBerry PlayBook, which has so far failed to meet sales expectations and has generally been greeted with half-hearted reviews that the device simply was not ready for market.
Industry watchers speculate RIM may be in for more high-level defections as the company continues to engage in layoffs. Dissatisfaction within the company seem high; RIM recently had to take the unusual step of publicly responding to an open letter, apparently from a high-level RIM exec, outlining eight steps he or she believed would be critical to turning the company around. The author of the letter claimed to be articulating concerns from a “huge percentage” of RIM’s employee base. When your company is imploding, other companies will come and make offers to your talent. It's just business.
So true.
Korea is business savvy, but Korea is only concerned ABOUT Korea. Not saying it's wrong, but that's the way it is. They take care of home first and if anything comes in that potentially changes it, it turns into this...
A major assault against Apple has come from the Korean press, which promotes the Galaxy S as the "iPhone killer." An article about alleged service problems with the iPhone was headlined "Tasting Apple's bitter fruit." After Jobs suggested that government bureaucracy slowed the release of the iPhone 4 here, one paper ran the headline "Jobs lied, didn't he?"
Industry watchers acknowledge that Samsung, one of the nation's most powerful advertisers, might be behind the stories. "It may be true that they released some misleading news," said Kim Ji-hyun, the author of a book on South Korean telecommunications. "But this kind of marketing did work domestically."
Some bloggers have come to Apple's defense, criticizing the negative press coverage. "In this Republic of Samsung, they are trying to drive the whole battle of smart phones as patriots (Galaxy or Korean-brand phone users) vs. traitors (iPhone users)," one wrote.
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On July 22 2011 12:42 mols0n wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 12:37 Slakter wrote:On July 22 2011 12:34 Emporio wrote:Holy crap dude, where's EG's statement in this? Biased as shit. + Show Spoiler +jokes aside, good to see some solid facts when Coach Lee is calmer to clarify his side They are busy grubbing themselves in moneyz and laughing evily. No, that wasnt serious. I am also awaiting their statement, will probably be very interesting. I don't care for EG's statement. They're a bunch of cheaters over there anyways. They poached Complexity from Jason Lake, and now they've done the same, low class organization. I was becoming a Puma fan, but I won't cheer for them while he is on that team
yeah, EG should really burn in hell for allowing players to live of what they do all day, fuck them !
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To be fair, PuMa wasn't contracted, so why would EG be obligated to contact TSL? For all their concerned, TSL isn't a team but merely a clan. PuMa was a free agent, no?
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How can people blame EG for this?
Puma failed to communicate with his team and left by his own will.
Seriously people have too much time otherwise i see no way how this can create so much drama
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No contract with TSL
No communication with TSL
No salary from TSL
Yet, people blame EG for Pumas own decision.
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What really worries me is the bad state of sc2 in korea... i hope that ogn/kespa etc. pick the game in the near future. Otherwise i don't see a way that this situation is getting better for those teams and players in korea.
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United States15275 Posts
On July 23 2011 01:43 Keula wrote:
How can people blame EG for this?
Puma failed to communicate with his team and left by his own will.
Seriously people have too much time otherwise i see no way how this can create so much drama
I imagine that is the point. For all the mockery of Lee's talk concerning "honor and trust", it's extremely hypocritical for this community to bag on Lee for it and not bag on EG for doing the same thing. EG assumed that Puma would inform Lee as quickly as possible, and in the end (most likely) he would decide to accept EG's offer. Instead he broods for 3 days, makes up his mind, and informs Lee that he is leaving. Why exactly was EG so trusting in Puma's word in the first place? Is Puma famous for his binding verbal agreements?
At the very least they should have said something along the lines of "Inform your coach of this offer by x time or we will directly contact him". Then EG would be in a much better position right now: they could legitimately blame Puma for his hesitation and say they put in the effort to make the deal smooth and agreeable for everyone. Now they came off as stunningly naive for an organization that doesn't mind doing "dirty" business for results. Because of the latter, it can be easily interpreted as stupidity instead of naivete.
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On July 23 2011 01:57 Finrod1 wrote:
What really worries me is the bad state of sc2 in korea... i hope that ogn/kespa etc. pick the game in the near future. Otherwise i don't see a way that this situation is getting better for those teams and players in korea.
I've always suspected that. Stepping on Kespa's toes... probably wasn't a good idea. Doesn't Kespa pretty much represent the sponsors in Korea? Even rumored to have caused the game getting a mature rating when BW is just as violent. Rumors of GSL not doing that well and are just funded by Blizzard.
As for low fan base, definitely nothing to be done. If TL is any indicator, BW fans are heavily entrenched. Despite admission being free, GSL finals are pretty poorly attended.
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So if PUMA isn't under contract. Why does EG need to contact him? He has no obligation to that team.
I get the coaches frustration
-talented player leaves
- spent time developing
- wasn't able to secure funding due to economy/lack of overall sc2 fan success
- GSL is nice but unless its code S it doesn't pay the bills.
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Having read the interview I respect Puma even more for sticking to his decision despite all the resistance he faced.
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Even if he was under contract, the fact that Puma would have preferred to be on another team already means that it's better for everybody that he is. TSL still have very strong players and should be able to recover from these recent losses of players regardless.
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On July 22 2011 12:42 mols0n wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 12:37 Slakter wrote:On July 22 2011 12:34 Emporio wrote:Holy crap dude, where's EG's statement in this? Biased as shit. + Show Spoiler +jokes aside, good to see some solid facts when Coach Lee is calmer to clarify his side They are busy grubbing themselves in moneyz and laughing evily. No, that wasnt serious. I am also awaiting their statement, will probably be very interesting. I don't care for EG's statement. They're a bunch of cheaters over there anyways. They poached Complexity from Jason Lake, and now they've done the same, low class organization. I was becoming a Puma fan, but I won't cheer for them while he is on that team
have to say I agree, EG has done a lot of bad rep in the past they are really BM in the sc2 community. especially if u rememeber the STOG where tyler and incontrol had it out. Ive really lost a lot for EG. They have great players and I would love to cheer for them.. but I cant
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Looking back at TSL's old lineup, it seems a bit crazy that the team wasn't more successful.
Clide, Killer, Trickster, FruitDealer, Rain, PuMa, and Alive.....now more than half of that beastly roster is gone. I hope they survive this and return to prominence soon!
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On July 23 2011 02:13 purecarnagge wrote:
So if PUMA isn't under contract. Why does EG need to contact him? He has no obligation to that team.
I get the coaches frustration
-talented player leaves
- spent time developing
- wasn't able to secure funding due to economy/lack of overall sc2 fan success
- GSL is nice but unless its code S it doesn't pay the bills.
you are ignoring a lot here. just because it wasnt legally binded it doesnt mean there shouldnt be respect given to coach lee. Yes legally there is no obligation but in a tightnit community like ours respect goes a long way. I know a lot of players teams and most importantly fans will not forget this lack of respect very easily
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On July 23 2011 02:21 Maenander wrote:
Having read the interview I respect Puma even more for sticking to his decision despite all the resistance he faced.
id only respect him if he actually signs with EG still, and not go to another team cause he's scared of all the backlash now.
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On July 23 2011 02:27 Carkis wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 12:42 mols0n wrote:On July 22 2011 12:37 Slakter wrote:On July 22 2011 12:34 Emporio wrote:Holy crap dude, where's EG's statement in this? Biased as shit. + Show Spoiler +jokes aside, good to see some solid facts when Coach Lee is calmer to clarify his side They are busy grubbing themselves in moneyz and laughing evily. No, that wasnt serious. I am also awaiting their statement, will probably be very interesting. I don't care for EG's statement. They're a bunch of cheaters over there anyways. They poached Complexity from Jason Lake, and now they've done the same, low class organization. I was becoming a Puma fan, but I won't cheer for them while he is on that team have to say I agree, EG has done a lot of bad rep in the past they are really BM in the sc2 community. especially if u rememeber the STOG where tyler and incontrol had it out. Ive really lost a lot for EG. They have great players and I would love to cheer for them.. but I cant
lets be fair, they have one great player, who i dont even know is elite anymore since he apparently doesnt practice as much.
the rest of eg, for one reason or another, is pretty average.
idk if this is an opinion shared by others, but i hate the idea of buying up good players. i much rather prefer players that teams train and grow on their own, like huk with liquid.
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On July 22 2011 21:13 Zorkmid wrote:Show nested quote +You have announced that the team is currently in “rebuilding” mode. I would presume that this event caused some turmoil internally as well.
Having been blindsided by the news, we did not know how to react. SangHo and Clide were worried and it came to light that they were also approached similarly in the past. This seems to read that EG has been trying to poach members of TSL that are under contract too. Am I wrong?
Or other teams. Everyone wants good players and the Korea teams might not be able to hold on to them. Its the same in my line of work. Other firms "poach" talent attorneys and paralegals if they think they will help out their firm. If you think we dont have contracts or agreements, you are out of your mind.
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On July 23 2011 02:35 Condor Hero wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 02:27 Carkis wrote:On July 22 2011 12:42 mols0n wrote:On July 22 2011 12:37 Slakter wrote:On July 22 2011 12:34 Emporio wrote:Holy crap dude, where's EG's statement in this? Biased as shit. + Show Spoiler +jokes aside, good to see some solid facts when Coach Lee is calmer to clarify his side They are busy grubbing themselves in moneyz and laughing evily. No, that wasnt serious. I am also awaiting their statement, will probably be very interesting. I don't care for EG's statement. They're a bunch of cheaters over there anyways. They poached Complexity from Jason Lake, and now they've done the same, low class organization. I was becoming a Puma fan, but I won't cheer for them while he is on that team have to say I agree, EG has done a lot of bad rep in the past they are really BM in the sc2 community. especially if u rememeber the STOG where tyler and incontrol had it out. Ive really lost a lot for EG. They have great players and I would love to cheer for them.. but I cant lets be fair, they have one great player, who i dont even know is elite anymore since he apparently doesnt practice as much. the rest of eg, for one reason or another, is pretty average. idk if this is an opinion shared by others, but i hate the idea of buying up good players. i much rather prefer players that teams train and grow on their own, like huk with liquid.
Perfectly put. They havnt really grown anyone. Theyve all remained average
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EPT
