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On July 22 2011 13:57 hyptonic wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 13:53 TheButtonmen wrote:
EG bought up a korean player from a struggling team but they haven't gone against any contracts, are going to the mat to support their new player with salary, travel expenses and flying him to the EG team house to meet the team / acclimatize and they simply followed Pumas wishs in how he wanted to handle the transition re: talking to the TSL staff. I know TSL is an a strange financal situation but you have to realize they paid FD the most money at the time of his contract. Had he discussed it with his team before making the decision to leave he might have been able to get some money. TSL is not a struggling team. They are #1 in the GSTL and EG is probably the weakest big NA team out there. I have no idea what you are talking about. Puma is also staying in Korea and will not be living EG. Read up on this stuff before you talk about it...
Have you actually read the full text of Coach Lees interview?
It's translated here.
Read it then respond to me and yes EG will be flying Puma to the EG team house for a few weeks to meet / greet / sign / train.
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On July 22 2011 13:51 creepystickguy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 13:40 Takkara wrote:On July 22 2011 13:38 Jetsfan wrote:On July 22 2011 13:31 FryktSkyene wrote:On July 22 2011 13:21 Jetsfan wrote:On July 21 2011 15:00 Milkis wrote:
Update: Notes from Weapon of Choice
- EG did approach Puma first, and then Puma and EG agreed that it would be for the best if Puma talked to the coach. EG never contacted the coach after that.
Nor were they obligated too. No but it's a respect thing to contact the coach. Not contacting him is disrespectful. Therefore, EG disrespected coach lee and TSL. How did they disrespect coach lee and TSL, he wasn't bound to them in anyway. Would Mr. Lee prefered a phone call from EG saying "hey guess what, puma just signed with us and will be leaving your team, I just though I would let you know out of respect" or maybe the phone call should have went "hey Mr. Lee this is EG, you know that player puma, that isn't bound to you in anyway shape or form, would it be OK if we offered him a contract? oh no you say, hmmm well I guess we will have to talk with puma directly then" No, it could go like this: "Coach Lee, we'd like to inform you of our intention to approach PuMa regarding a contract with EG." What then? They both hang up and its good? No. Then Lee would say, "you want to offer my player a contract? No he is on our team." Then EG would say, "fine then, well go talk to the player, we just wanted to work with your customs, but you said exactly what we thought you would say." Lee got this mad at him leaving, he would not have been like "oh yeah, perfect, go offer my player a contract. good for puma." Does that mean that all these players are property of their korean teams with no contracts and whenever we want to make a korean player an offer, we have to ask their coaches if we can contact them, which then their coaches say no. This makes no sense. Puma was not a slave to TSL. Puma can do what he wants. He was not under contract and was not bound to the team in any way other than friendship.
Its not that simple, BUT an obvious thing is that TSL would be more understandable of EG's desires in wanting Puma and through that be able to talk to Puma more and consider deeply of the player's future. You can't just ignore people who worked and spent time with you, later declaring departure after already being decided.
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On July 22 2011 13:57 Woshie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 13:51 VillageBC wrote:On July 22 2011 13:48 hyptonic wrote:
Yes, look up KeSPA too.
Some BW players currently make more than half a million through contracts iirc. KESPA is a pillar of the community and an upstanding organization. Not controversy or scandal there, no sir. That is my point. I think some people missed it. If the Korean culture is so harmonious and ethical. Why on earth does Kespa in SC:BW (a market Korea dominates and foreign teams can't compete monetary wise) feel the need to use such harsh rules and contracts? Korean business isn't all rainbows and lollipops as some people wish to believe. TSL had no excuse not to realise this. That is the way I feel about it at the end of the day. It isn't a cultural difference it was bad business practice.
TSL definitely seems to be having serious business-side issues. That seemed to be the undercurrent in the Tester/Fruitdealer leaving TSL.
Though, I still don't quite get Coach Lee's reaction. He throws a "leaving" party for Puma then goes and complains to the SC2 sites. I really don't quite get that. He had just as much ability to ring up and yell at the EG guys as well.
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On July 22 2011 13:13 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 13:12 DBOWNIZZ wrote:
Dude, the story was released the night this all happened....I mean PuMa isnt even sign yet so they really cant even make a statement cause he is not even part of there team yet.
Then that's the statement you make. Seriously, do you ever read the news? Nothing here is out of the ordinary when it comes to breaking news in the public domain. EG just has incredibly poor PR.
No offense JIbba, but thats not the kind of statement you make when it comes to player acquisitions. As a rule of thumb in sports(and it should be the same in ESPORTS too) is you make NO statement at all, until a deal is finalized. When the Pens were trying to sign Jagr a few weeks ago, they released no information on it at all.... the information linked that they offered him ~2 mil, but the team releases no statement. organizations almost never release information on signing assets until the deal is done.
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On July 22 2011 13:58 hyptonic wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 13:53 TheButtonmen wrote:
EG bought up a korean player from a struggling team but they haven't gone against any contracts, are going to the mat to support their new player with salary, travel expenses and flying him to the EG team house to meet the team / acclimatize and they simply followed Pumas wishs in how he wanted to handle the transition re: talking to the TSL staff. I know TSL is an a strange financal situation but you have to realize they paid FD the most money at the time of his contract. Had he discussed it with his team before making the decision to leave he might have been able to get some money. TSL is not a struggling team. They are #1 in the GSTL and EG is probably the weakest big NA team out there. I have no idea what you are talking about. Puma is also staying in Korea and will not be living EG. Read up on this stuff before you talk about it...
TSL is number one in a division where they beat a struggling prime team and a slayers team that did not play MMA, Boxer or Alicia.
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On July 21 2011 15:00 Milkis wrote:
Update: Notes from Weapon of Choice
- Puma has not signed a contract with EG yet.
- EG did approach Puma first, and then Puma and EG agreed that it would be for the best if Puma talked to the coach. EG never contacted the coach after that.
Huh.
So... EG showed interested, let Puma know to check for interest, Puma goes to coach and raises this interest, -before- EG has contracted Puma.
However, apparently Puma was -very- eager to leave TSL. Without a guarantee of a contract, Puma informs the coach that he will be leaving instead of informing the coach that EG has an interest in him.
So... where is the BM here? I seriously do not see the problem here. EG peaks interest, EG and player find mutual interest, EG and player agree to talk to coach first, player talks to coach and states his intent, coach and player have a fallout and the OP happens.
It seems more like the coach raged and then quickly informed everyone he could.
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On July 22 2011 13:57 Dante08 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 13:36 Serpico wrote:On July 22 2011 13:35 hyptonic wrote:On July 22 2011 13:33 Jetsfan wrote:On July 22 2011 13:25 kardinal wrote:On July 22 2011 13:19 Jetsfan wrote:
I'm betting that if this was Puma is leaving TSL for Team Liquid, within the same situation it would be seen as a good thing. But because it's EG everyone just wants to hate.
That's implying that the management behind teamliquid would make a retarded player poach like that. God, you and the people who keep saying poached are retarded. The only thing EG poached were their eggs this morning I don't understand how he wasn't "poached" He was a TSL player and they took him without asking. Regardless of any contract. You can't lay claim to a player that you don't even have legally binded to you, it's a weak argument at best especially in business. You make me laugh. He eats and sleeps in the house, plays for them and wears their uniform. My grandma could tell he belongs to TSL. Even if he's not contractually obligated, the least you could do is respect the team and inform them. Not exploiting the loophole. That's not how it works in Korea.
Not having a contract, yeah I can see that as a little loophole
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This has probably been said, but hasn't anyone noticed that EG stands for Evil Geniuses? Come on, this was due to happen!
That said, I think it's just fine for foreign teams to be recruiting Korean players. I understand that the method here was somewhat controversial, but it's a matter of he-said-she-said now. We need logs or it didn't happen.
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On July 22 2011 14:01 Taf the Ghost wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 13:57 Woshie wrote:On July 22 2011 13:51 VillageBC wrote:On July 22 2011 13:48 hyptonic wrote:
Yes, look up KeSPA too.
Some BW players currently make more than half a million through contracts iirc. KESPA is a pillar of the community and an upstanding organization. Not controversy or scandal there, no sir. That is my point. I think some people missed it. If the Korean culture is so harmonious and ethical. Why on earth does Kespa in SC:BW (a market Korea dominates and foreign teams can't compete monetary wise) feel the need to use such harsh rules and contracts? Korean business isn't all rainbows and lollipops as some people wish to believe. TSL had no excuse not to realise this. That is the way I feel about it at the end of the day. It isn't a cultural difference it was bad business practice. TSL definitely seems to be having serious business-side issues. That seemed to be the undercurrent in the Tester/Fruitdealer leaving TSL. Though, I still don't quite get Coach Lee's reaction. He throws a "leaving" party for Puma then goes and complains to the SC2 sites. I really don't quite get that. He had just as much ability to ring up and yell at the EG guys as well.
Nvm:
It seems like a lot of members have left TSL recently. Anything you would like to say about this?
Rain’s dad lives in New York and his dream has always been to go abroad. It was only after he left the team that he signed with Fnatic, so what happened with Rain is different from Puma’s situation. Part of the reason why Rain left originated from some of the issues that arised once our team entered into a “rebuilding” mode
What other issues did the team go through during this “rebuilding” phase?
TSL has not had a very good showing in tournaments so far this year, which lead to a decrease in number of members as well as sponsors. We initially cultivated a low pressure practice environment within our team, but we did not have good results in the tournaments. We had many members placed in Code S but none of them advanced far enough, which is why we decided to go into “rebuilding” mode. During this transitional process, FruitDealer and Tester preferred the low pressure environment, whereas the other team members felt it was best to incorporate a more rigid practice regimen. Due to poor showings in tournaments, the sponsorship funds decreased which naturally lead to pay cuts across the board. This whole incident lead to the eventual departure of FruitDealer and Tester, and Rain had trouble meshing with the other members due to the age difference (Rain being the youngest) on top of his desire to go abroad. If only we had accelerated our rebuilding phase, I believe Rain would have stayed with the team.
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On July 22 2011 14:06 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 14:01 Taf the Ghost wrote:On July 22 2011 13:57 Woshie wrote:On July 22 2011 13:51 VillageBC wrote:On July 22 2011 13:48 hyptonic wrote:
Yes, look up KeSPA too.
Some BW players currently make more than half a million through contracts iirc. KESPA is a pillar of the community and an upstanding organization. Not controversy or scandal there, no sir. That is my point. I think some people missed it. If the Korean culture is so harmonious and ethical. Why on earth does Kespa in SC:BW (a market Korea dominates and foreign teams can't compete monetary wise) feel the need to use such harsh rules and contracts? Korean business isn't all rainbows and lollipops as some people wish to believe. TSL had no excuse not to realise this. That is the way I feel about it at the end of the day. It isn't a cultural difference it was bad business practice. TSL definitely seems to be having serious business-side issues. That seemed to be the undercurrent in the Tester/Fruitdealer leaving TSL. Though, I still don't quite get Coach Lee's reaction. He throws a "leaving" party for Puma then goes and complains to the SC2 sites. I really don't quite get that. He had just as much ability to ring up and yell at the EG guys as well. Actually they left because they didn't want to practice as much.
I thought they JOINED TSL because they didn't want to practice as much, and then left because they wanted to get competitive again?
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On July 22 2011 14:06 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 14:01 Taf the Ghost wrote:On July 22 2011 13:57 Woshie wrote:On July 22 2011 13:51 VillageBC wrote:On July 22 2011 13:48 hyptonic wrote:
Yes, look up KeSPA too.
Some BW players currently make more than half a million through contracts iirc. KESPA is a pillar of the community and an upstanding organization. Not controversy or scandal there, no sir. That is my point. I think some people missed it. If the Korean culture is so harmonious and ethical. Why on earth does Kespa in SC:BW (a market Korea dominates and foreign teams can't compete monetary wise) feel the need to use such harsh rules and contracts? Korean business isn't all rainbows and lollipops as some people wish to believe. TSL had no excuse not to realise this. That is the way I feel about it at the end of the day. It isn't a cultural difference it was bad business practice. TSL definitely seems to be having serious business-side issues. That seemed to be the undercurrent in the Tester/Fruitdealer leaving TSL. Though, I still don't quite get Coach Lee's reaction. He throws a "leaving" party for Puma then goes and complains to the SC2 sites. I really don't quite get that. He had just as much ability to ring up and yell at the EG guys as well. Actually they left because they didn't want to practice as much.
It was a combination of both, I think.
During this transitional process, FruitDealer and Tester preferred the low pressure environment, whereas the other team members felt it was best to incorporate a more rigid practice regimen. Due to poor showings in tournaments, the sponsorship funds decreased which naturally lead to pay cuts across the board. This whole incident lead to the eventual departure of FruitDealer and Tester...
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On July 22 2011 13:59 TheButtonmen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 13:57 hyptonic wrote:On July 22 2011 13:53 TheButtonmen wrote:
EG bought up a korean player from a struggling team but they haven't gone against any contracts, are going to the mat to support their new player with salary, travel expenses and flying him to the EG team house to meet the team / acclimatize and they simply followed Pumas wishs in how he wanted to handle the transition re: talking to the TSL staff. I know TSL is an a strange financal situation but you have to realize they paid FD the most money at the time of his contract. Had he discussed it with his team before making the decision to leave he might have been able to get some money. TSL is not a struggling team. They are #1 in the GSTL and EG is probably the weakest big NA team out there. I have no idea what you are talking about. Puma is also staying in Korea and will not be living EG. Read up on this stuff before you talk about it... Have you actually read the full text of Coach Lees interview? It's translated here.Read it then respond to me and yes EG will be flying Puma to the EG team house for a few weeks to meet / greet / sign / train.
I have read the interview.
Note that he is talking about the past, I'll assume in the prior to this month in which TSL has shown great success and has gotten the relief of not having to pay FD and Tester the majority $60k in contract money.
I have not heard that Puma was going to the EG house. From what I've heard from EG representatives themselves is that they would find Puma a place in Korea and have him to stay and train there, assuming to not bring down their new investment from training with their average players. Link?
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On July 22 2011 14:04 Terrafros wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 15:00 Milkis wrote:
Update: Notes from Weapon of Choice
- Puma has not signed a contract with EG yet.
- EG did approach Puma first, and then Puma and EG agreed that it would be for the best if Puma talked to the coach. EG never contacted the coach after that.
Huh. So... EG showed interested, let Puma know to check for interest, Puma goes to coach and raises this interest, -before- EG has contracted Puma. However, apparently Puma was -very- eager to leave TSL. Without a guarantee of a contract, Puma informs the coach that he will be leaving instead of informing the coach that EG has an interest in him. So... where is the BM here? I seriously do not see the problem here. EG peaks interest, EG and player find mutual interest, EG and player agree to talk to coach first, player talks to coach and states his intent, coach and player have a fallout and the OP happens. It seems more like the coach raged and then quickly informed everyone he could.
I've been saying for a while now that it's probably a done deal in all but the physical sense of signing paperwork and EG is trying to weasel out of looking like the bad guys with this explanation. Otherwise, chances are Puma could be picked up by IM, dignitas, or Mouz, etc., and it would look silly for EG to have initiated his free agency while another team picks him up.
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On July 22 2011 14:10 Ansinjunger wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 14:04 Terrafros wrote:On July 21 2011 15:00 Milkis wrote:
Update: Notes from Weapon of Choice
- Puma has not signed a contract with EG yet.
- EG did approach Puma first, and then Puma and EG agreed that it would be for the best if Puma talked to the coach. EG never contacted the coach after that.
Huh. So... EG showed interested, let Puma know to check for interest, Puma goes to coach and raises this interest, -before- EG has contracted Puma. However, apparently Puma was -very- eager to leave TSL. Without a guarantee of a contract, Puma informs the coach that he will be leaving instead of informing the coach that EG has an interest in him. So... where is the BM here? I seriously do not see the problem here. EG peaks interest, EG and player find mutual interest, EG and player agree to talk to coach first, player talks to coach and states his intent, coach and player have a fallout and the OP happens. It seems more like the coach raged and then quickly informed everyone he could. I've been saying for a while now that it's probably a done deal in all but the physical sense of signing paperwork and EG is trying to weasel out of looking like the bad guys with this explanation. Otherwise, chances are Puma could be picked up by IM, dignitas, or Mouz, etc., and it would look silly for EG to have initiated his free agency while another team picks him up.
It would look silly on the communities part for crucifying EG, not on EGs part if that were to happen.
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On July 22 2011 14:04 Terrafros wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 15:00 Milkis wrote:
Update: Notes from Weapon of Choice
- Puma has not signed a contract with EG yet.
- EG did approach Puma first, and then Puma and EG agreed that it would be for the best if Puma talked to the coach. EG never contacted the coach after that.
So... where is the BM here? I seriously do not see the problem here. EG peaks interest, EG and player find mutual interest, EG and player agree to talk to coach first, player talks to coach and states his intent, coach and player have a fallout and the OP happens.
You got it a bit wrong.
EG peaks interest, EG approaches player, player shows interest, EG offers deal, Puma said he would accept, Puma informs coach he is leaving.
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On July 22 2011 14:07 PHILtheTANK wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 14:06 StarStruck wrote:On July 22 2011 14:01 Taf the Ghost wrote:On July 22 2011 13:57 Woshie wrote:On July 22 2011 13:51 VillageBC wrote:On July 22 2011 13:48 hyptonic wrote:
Yes, look up KeSPA too.
Some BW players currently make more than half a million through contracts iirc. KESPA is a pillar of the community and an upstanding organization. Not controversy or scandal there, no sir. That is my point. I think some people missed it. If the Korean culture is so harmonious and ethical. Why on earth does Kespa in SC:BW (a market Korea dominates and foreign teams can't compete monetary wise) feel the need to use such harsh rules and contracts? Korean business isn't all rainbows and lollipops as some people wish to believe. TSL had no excuse not to realise this. That is the way I feel about it at the end of the day. It isn't a cultural difference it was bad business practice. TSL definitely seems to be having serious business-side issues. That seemed to be the undercurrent in the Tester/Fruitdealer leaving TSL. Though, I still don't quite get Coach Lee's reaction. He throws a "leaving" party for Puma then goes and complains to the SC2 sites. I really don't quite get that. He had just as much ability to ring up and yell at the EG guys as well. Actually they left because they didn't want to practice as much. I thought they JOINED TSL because they didn't want to practice as much, and then left because they wanted to get competitive again?
when they joined TSL had a lax training schedule but then TSL wasnt doing very well so lee kicked it up and that's when trick and fruit decided to find a more relaxed team
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IMO this is a good thing, hope that Puma does well, and EG improves because of it
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On July 22 2011 14:10 hyptonic wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 13:59 TheButtonmen wrote:On July 22 2011 13:57 hyptonic wrote:On July 22 2011 13:53 TheButtonmen wrote:
EG bought up a korean player from a struggling team but they haven't gone against any contracts, are going to the mat to support their new player with salary, travel expenses and flying him to the EG team house to meet the team / acclimatize and they simply followed Pumas wishs in how he wanted to handle the transition re: talking to the TSL staff. I know TSL is an a strange financal situation but you have to realize they paid FD the most money at the time of his contract. Had he discussed it with his team before making the decision to leave he might have been able to get some money. TSL is not a struggling team. They are #1 in the GSTL and EG is probably the weakest big NA team out there. I have no idea what you are talking about. Puma is also staying in Korea and will not be living EG. Read up on this stuff before you talk about it... Have you actually read the full text of Coach Lees interview? It's translated here.Read it then respond to me and yes EG will be flying Puma to the EG team house for a few weeks to meet / greet / sign / train. I have read the interview. Note that he is talking about the past, I'll assume in the prior to this month in which TSL has shown great success and has gotten the relief of not having to pay FD and Tester the majority $60k in contract money. I have not heard that Puma was going to the EG house. From what I've heard from EG representatives themselves is that they would find Puma a place in Korea and have him to stay and train there, assuming to not bring down their new investment from training with their average players. Link?
Tonights Lo3, the videos aren't up yet.
And only FD, Tester and Clide recived a salary and no TSL hasn't been showing great success prior to this month. Quoth the Coach Lee;
TSL has not had a very good showing in tournaments so far this year, which lead to a decrease in number of members as well as sponsors.
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Yeah, I don't know exactly how long ago this low pressure environment was in place. Lee was always a bit more casual than Coach Ha (old MBC head coach), but he still had his principles. I don't think the low pressure environment lasted very long for this to blow up in his face like it did.
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On July 22 2011 14:10 Ansinjunger wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 14:04 Terrafros wrote:On July 21 2011 15:00 Milkis wrote:
Update: Notes from Weapon of Choice
- Puma has not signed a contract with EG yet.
- EG did approach Puma first, and then Puma and EG agreed that it would be for the best if Puma talked to the coach. EG never contacted the coach after that.
Huh. So... EG showed interested, let Puma know to check for interest, Puma goes to coach and raises this interest, -before- EG has contracted Puma. However, apparently Puma was -very- eager to leave TSL. Without a guarantee of a contract, Puma informs the coach that he will be leaving instead of informing the coach that EG has an interest in him. So... where is the BM here? I seriously do not see the problem here. EG peaks interest, EG and player find mutual interest, EG and player agree to talk to coach first, player talks to coach and states his intent, coach and player have a fallout and the OP happens. It seems more like the coach raged and then quickly informed everyone he could. I've been saying for a while now that it's probably a done deal in all but the physical sense of signing paperwork and EG is trying to weasel out of looking like the bad guys with this explanation. Otherwise, chances are Puma could be picked up by IM, dignitas, or Mouz, etc., and it would look silly for EG to have initiated his free agency while another team picks him up.
If IM could make a better offer than what EG is making, I can't see him not taking it. He is still a free agent, just like he was before this whole thing happened. I also can't see Puma leaving TSL if they offer him the same thing that EG is offering him. TSL needs to fix what they previously had messed up by not signing him to a contract.
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EPT
