EPTHas anyone stopped and wondered whether Puma himself wants to conduct business in this way? There's nothing wrong with not doing things the way that things are currently done in the Korean scene.
Puma leaves TSL for EG - Page 319
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zerglingrodeo
United States910 Posts
Has anyone stopped and wondered whether Puma himself wants to conduct business in this way? There's nothing wrong with not doing things the way that things are currently done in the Korean scene. | ||
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Azzur
Australia6267 Posts
On July 22 2011 13:12 DBOWNIZZ wrote: Dude, the story was released the night this all happened....I mean PuMa isnt even sign yet so they really cant even make a statement cause he is not even part of there team yet. Then they should say that they will release a statement once things because official. All they've done is speak on WoC, tweet about irresponsible journalism (sirscoots) and troll (incontrol). Not getting their side of the story out is completely their fault. | ||
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DBOWNIZZ
United States66 Posts
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xBillehx
United States1289 Posts
On July 22 2011 13:13 Jibba wrote: Then that's the statement you make. Seriously, do you ever read the news? Nothing here is out of the ordinary when it comes to breaking news in the public domain. EG just has incredibly poor PR. Agreed. Breaking news gets updated on the fly with relevant information as it comes in. News doesn't wait for organizations to pony up a story suited to defend their side days later, that stuff comes in updates made to the original articles. | ||
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Daniel C
Hong Kong1606 Posts
Reality check: business culture is different in Asia, especially Eastern Asia. Here, there is a lot of emphasis on respect and "saving face" (go and google that if you don't know what it is). Let's put aside for the moment Puma's existing contract (or lack of one), Puma's own interest and decision-making, the conditions at the TSL house, Fruitdealer's and Trickster's departures.... Obviously, Puma is going to want do the best for himself, and from a purely monetary standpoint, EG certainly did the logical thing by grabbing Puma at first opportunity. But there's more to business than pure monetary considerations. By not contacting TSL's managers, EG has shown a blatant lack of respect for the Asian hierarchical structure, and has caused TSL to lose face. And people are acting surprised that the Koreans are having a big reaction? Listen up e-chairmans, next time you're in Eastern Asia, try doing business by charging head-first, guns a-blazing, no-respect spaghetti-Western style with your "business is business" attitude. You'll be shown the door faster than you can say "Yankee!!". EG's reputation took a big hit among the Koreans, and deservedly so. Whether this negatively affects other foreigner-Korean relations is another question. Hopefully they'll learn from their mistakes and be smarter about their actions in the future. | ||
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Choco2689
United States32 Posts
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On July 22 2011 13:12 DBOWNIZZ wrote: Dude, the story was released the night this all happened....I mean PuMa isnt even sign yet so they really cant even make a statement cause he is not even part of there team yet. Like I said, everything you have posted has already been stated numerous times. Hell, I even made posts with regard to this only a few pages back. Press releases are official statements. Doesn't mean they cannot make an unofficial one to clear up the PR they are getting. -.-;; Daniel C, you put a small smile on my face. That was a cute post :> | ||
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canikizu
4860 Posts
On July 22 2011 13:10 Jibba wrote: They have had 20+ hours to release a statement. And still counting. | ||
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Primadog
United States4411 Posts
He does his due diligence, and even went as far as correct any factual mistakes in the original article as a courtesy to the community. That's already more than anyone can ask for. Again, if I had personally slighted Milkis in anyways, I sincerely apologize. | ||
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LegendaryZ
United States1583 Posts
On July 22 2011 13:12 DBOWNIZZ wrote: Dude, the story was released the night this all happened....I mean PuMa isnt even sign yet so they really cant even make a statement cause he is not even part of there team yet. So they could release a statement saying that he's not currently signed. Or that they're undergoing negotiations or that there were misunderstandings and miscommunications. They could have said lots of things, but instead chose to stay silent. How is their own unwillingness to defend themselves by telling their side of the story someone else's fault? You don't need some sort of major press release. Having someone post a short statement anywhere would have been better than what they've done, which is absolutely nothing. | ||
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Takkara
United States2503 Posts
On July 22 2011 13:14 zerglingrodeo wrote: So...people's main problem with EG and Puma is that they didn't conduct business the way people in the Korean scene usually do? Has anyone stopped and wondered whether Puma himself wants to conduct business in this way? There's nothing wrong with not doing things the way that things are currently done in the Korean scene. Of course there's nothing wrong with not doing things the way that things are currently done in the Korean scene. But then, when the Korean scene gets angry, and the foreign community sympathizes and likewise gets angry, don't suddenly come out and say "we have no idea where people got so worked up!" If they truly wanted to break into Korea respectfully then they wouldn't be so flippant about saying that the Korean scene needs to get with the times and saying that their model is "utopian" and not-sustainable. If you want to break into Korea respectfully, then you go about business according to their principles and ethics. You don't have to, but then you accept the consequences that your choices produces. In this case, it's community rage. | ||
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Woshie
Australia90 Posts
On July 22 2011 13:03 nekuodah wrote: Why would he? he was translating an article from a korean website so the foreign community could see whats going on in the korean world, hes not running around looking for stories to write up himself, hes just letting us non-korean speakers get a bit involved in korean pro gaming news. So if the BBC translate a Chinese news story and puts it up does that mean that the person who found the article is not journalists at the BBC? Is the BBC not required to check anything about the story? If the story is proved to be wrong does the BBC have to retract the article? But the BBC is different entity. They have a reputation for news and as such have a responsibility to make sure it is accurate. So articles they have are trusted. The issue isn't the translation so to speak, but where you put that translation into circulation as a story. It comes down to what is a web forum like TL classed as. To my mind it is simply a discussion board. The board makes no pretence of proving 100% accurate news or unbiased opinions of users. Also it is not a featured news/community news item on the side. Those items are the only things on TL that need to be verified as they are the only threads I view as trusted. As for the EG thing I still see they did nothing wrong. TSL had a bad business practice and did not cover themselves. It was naive and they paid for it. It was only a matter of time before another Korean team did it or a foreign team. Also to the people saying Korea doesn't act like that. Of course it does, that is why they have contracts in Korea. Goodness go look at a Kespa contract. | ||
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Jetsfan
Canada26 Posts
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Takezou
United States320 Posts
On July 22 2011 13:19 Jetsfan wrote: I'm betting that if this was Puma is leaving TSL for Team Liquid, within the same situation it would be seen as a good thing. But because it's EG everyone just wants to hate. I very much disagree with that. | ||
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Azzur
Australia6267 Posts
On July 22 2011 13:15 Daniel C wrote: I'm seriously rofolofoling at all these e-CEO's who presume to know all about "international business" putting on their grim faces and saying "this is business". I'm willing to bet that the majority of these e-directors are "Westeners" that have never even stepped foot in Asia, let alone done business here. Reality check: business culture is different in Asia, especially South-East Asia. Here, there is a lot of emphasis on respect and "saving face" (go and google that if you don't know what it is). Let's put aside for the moment Puma's existing contract (or lack of one), Puma's own interest and decision-making, the conditions at the TSL house, Fruitdealer's and Trickster's departures.... Obviously, Puma is going to want do the best for himself, and from a purely monetary standpoint, EG did the certainly did the logical thing by grabbing Puma at first opportunity. But there's more to business than pure monetary considerations. By not contacting TSL's managers, EG has shown a blatant lack of respect for the SE Asian hierarchical structure, and has caused TSL to lose face. And people are acting surprised that the Korean's are having a big reaction? Listen up e-chairmans, next time you're in South-East Asia, try doing business by charging head-first, guns a-blazing, no-respect spaghetti-Western style with your "business is business" attitude. You'll be shown the door faster than you can say "Yankee!!". EG's reputation took a big hit among the Koreans, and deservedly so. Whether this negatively affects other foreigner-Korean relations is another question. Hopefully they'll learn from their mistakes and be smarter about their actions in the future. Similarly, Asian countries need to understand that things are done differently in the West. Charging in head-first in a naive Asian-style to do business will leave them out in the cold. | ||
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oBlade
United States6489 Posts
On July 22 2011 13:15 Daniel C wrote: I'm seriously rofolofoling at all these e-CEO's who presume to know all about "international business" putting on their grim faces and saying "this is business". I'm willing to bet that the majority of these e-directors are "Westeners" that have never even stepped foot in Asia, let alone done business here. Reality check: business culture is different in Asia, especially South-East Asia. Here, there is a lot of emphasis on respect and "saving face" (go and google that if you don't know what it is). Let's put aside for the moment Puma's existing contract (or lack of one), Puma's own interest and decision-making, the conditions at the TSL house, Fruitdealer's and Trickster's departures.... Obviously, Puma is going to want do the best for himself, and from a purely monetary standpoint, EG did the certainly did the logical thing by grabbing Puma at first opportunity. But there's more to business than pure monetary considerations. By not contacting TSL's managers, EG has shown a blatant lack of respect for the SE Asian hierarchical structure, and has caused TSL to lose face. And people are acting surprised that the Korean's are having a big reaction? Listen up e-chairmans, next time you're in South-East Asia, try doing business by charging head-first, guns a-blazing, no-respect spaghetti-Western style with your "business is business" attitude. You'll be shown the door faster than you can say "Yankee!!". So far it doesn't seem Puma (a Korean, who although he is Asian, doesn't live in SE Asia, which you mentioned far too often, probably from holidaying in Thailand), has any problem with the way things transpired. And he's the center of this whole affair. Edit: I would like to just reiterate, Mr. Ambassador, that Southeast Asia is not a region where Korea is. | ||
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Jetsfan
Canada26 Posts
On July 21 2011 15:00 Milkis wrote: Update: Notes from Weapon of Choice - EG did approach Puma first, and then Puma and EG agreed that it would be for the best if Puma talked to the coach. EG never contacted the coach after that. Nor were they obligated too. | ||
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Takkara
United States2503 Posts
On July 22 2011 13:19 Jetsfan wrote: I'm betting that if this was Puma is leaving TSL for Team Liquid, within the same situation it would be seen as a good thing. But because it's EG everyone just wants to hate. TL wouldn't have done it without talking to the coach so it's a fantastical situation you propose anyways. But, in your mythical world, if TL would have been publicly condemned by a Korean coach due to poaching a player without consulting the coach, you would bet that TL would be called to task about it. The TL team/staff has taken lots of flak in the past based on events/decisions they've made that have been unpopular. It's not like they're invincible, even on their forums. Think about the "Elephant in the Room" article, for one. | ||
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ExO_
United States2316 Posts
On July 22 2011 13:15 Daniel C wrote: I'm seriously rofolofoling at all these e-CEO's who presume to know all about "international business" putting on their grim faces and saying "this is business". I'm willing to bet that the majority of these e-directors are "Westeners" that have never even stepped foot in Asia, let alone done business here. Reality check: business culture is different in Asia, especially South-East Asia. Here, there is a lot of emphasis on respect and "saving face" (go and google that if you don't know what it is). Let's put aside for the moment Puma's existing contract (or lack of one), Puma's own interest and decision-making, the conditions at the TSL house, Fruitdealer's and Trickster's departures.... Obviously, Puma is going to want to the best for himself, and from a purely monetary standpoint, EG did the certainly did the logical thing by grabbing Puma at first opportunity. But there's more to business than pure monetary considerations. By not contacting TSL's managers, EG has shown a blatant lack of respect for the SE Asian hierarchical structure, and has caused TSL to lose face. And people are acting surprised that the Korean's are having a big reaction? Listen up e-chairmans, next time you're in South-East Asia, try doing business by charging head-first, guns a-blazing, no-respect spaghetti-Western style with your "business is business" attitude. You'll be shown the door faster than you can say "Yankee!!". While I am on the fence about what EG did (or may not have done), I realize that some of the things posted in this thread are inaccurate, and it would be fool hearty to place all of the blame on EG without knowing for sure what exactly happened. Furthermore I find the tone of your post to be very condescending towards people from the west, particular those of us who are "yankees". There may be a different business climate in Asia than in the west, but I can definitely say that while there may be a principle of saving face in South East Asian business, it clearly is not as important to some people to do the same while representing themselves in public. | ||
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Duravi
United States1205 Posts
On July 22 2011 13:19 Jetsfan wrote: I'm betting that if this was Puma is leaving TSL for Team Liquid, within the same situation it would be seen as a good thing. But because it's EG everyone just wants to hate. If TL was going to acquire a player from a korean team do you honestly think in your wildest of dreams this is the way they would go about it? | ||
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