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On July 22 2011 13:19 Jetsfan wrote:
I'm betting that if this was Puma is leaving TSL for Team Liquid, within the same situation it would be seen as a good thing. But because it's EG everyone just wants to hate.
I disagree, if TL went behind the back of Coach Lee (which they would never do out of pure respect) and had Alex G as their PR representative the backlash would be similar. Not everyone's a blind hater.
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On July 22 2011 13:18 Takkara wrote:
Of course there's nothing wrong with not doing things the way that things are currently done in the Korean scene. But then, when the Korean scene gets angry, and the foreign community sympathizes and likewise gets angry, don't suddenly come out and say "we have no idea where people got so worked up!"
If they truly wanted to break into Korea respectfully then they wouldn't be so flippant about saying that the Korean scene needs to get with the times and saying that their model is "utopian" and not-sustainable. If you want to break into Korea respectfully, then you go about business according to their principles and ethics.
You don't have to, but then you accept the consequences that your choices produces. In this case, it's community rage.
There will be repercussions. Yes.
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On July 22 2011 13:23 xBillehx wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 13:19 Jetsfan wrote:
I'm betting that if this was Puma is leaving TSL for Team Liquid, within the same situation it would be seen as a good thing. But because it's EG everyone just wants to hate.
I disagree, if TL went behind the back of Coach Lee (which they would never do out of pure respect) and had Alex G as their PR representative the backlash would be similar. Not everyone's a blind hater.
It's a TL site, I doubt they'd get as much hate.
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On July 22 2011 13:19 Jetsfan wrote:
I'm betting that if this was Puma is leaving TSL for Team Liquid, within the same situation it would be seen as a good thing. But because it's EG everyone just wants to hate.
That's implying that the management behind teamliquid would make a retarded player poach like that.
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On July 22 2011 13:21 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 13:15 Daniel C wrote:
I'm seriously rofolofoling at all these e-CEO's who presume to know all about "international business" putting on their grim faces and saying "this is business". I'm willing to bet that the majority of these e-directors are "Westeners" that have never even stepped foot in Asia, let alone done business here.
Reality check: business culture is different in Asia, especially South-East Asia. Here, there is a lot of emphasis on respect and "saving face" (go and google that if you don't know what it is).
Let's put aside for the moment Puma's existing contract (or lack of one), Puma's own interest and decision-making, the conditions at the TSL house, Fruitdealer's and Trickster's departures.... Obviously, Puma is going to want do the best for himself, and from a purely monetary standpoint, EG did the certainly did the logical thing by grabbing Puma at first opportunity. But there's more to business than pure monetary considerations. By not contacting TSL's managers, EG has shown a blatant lack of respect for the SE Asian hierarchical structure, and has caused TSL to lose face. And people are acting surprised that the Korean's are having a big reaction?
Listen up e-chairmans, next time you're in South-East Asia, try doing business by charging head-first, guns a-blazing, no-respect spaghetti-Western style with your "business is business" attitude. You'll be shown the door faster than you can say "Yankee!!".
So far it doesn't seem Puma (a Korean, who although he is Asian, doesn't live in SE Asia, which you mentioned far too often, probably from holidaying in Thailand), has any problem with the way things transpired. And he's the center of this whole affair. Edit: I would like to just reiterate, Mr. Ambassador, that Southeast Asia is not a region where Korea is.
Sorry for my mistake, I changed it to East Asia 
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United States22883 Posts
On July 22 2011 13:21 Azzur wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 13:15 Daniel C wrote:
I'm seriously rofolofoling at all these e-CEO's who presume to know all about "international business" putting on their grim faces and saying "this is business". I'm willing to bet that the majority of these e-directors are "Westeners" that have never even stepped foot in Asia, let alone done business here.
Reality check: business culture is different in Asia, especially South-East Asia. Here, there is a lot of emphasis on respect and "saving face" (go and google that if you don't know what it is).
Let's put aside for the moment Puma's existing contract (or lack of one), Puma's own interest and decision-making, the conditions at the TSL house, Fruitdealer's and Trickster's departures.... Obviously, Puma is going to want do the best for himself, and from a purely monetary standpoint, EG did the certainly did the logical thing by grabbing Puma at first opportunity. But there's more to business than pure monetary considerations. By not contacting TSL's managers, EG has shown a blatant lack of respect for the SE Asian hierarchical structure, and has caused TSL to lose face. And people are acting surprised that the Korean's are having a big reaction?
Listen up e-chairmans, next time you're in South-East Asia, try doing business by charging head-first, guns a-blazing, no-respect spaghetti-Western style with your "business is business" attitude. You'll be shown the door faster than you can say "Yankee!!".
EG's reputation took a big hit among the Koreans, and deservedly so. Whether this negatively affects other foreigner-Korean relations is another question. Hopefully they'll learn from their mistakes and be smarter about their actions in the future.
Similarly, Asian countries need to understand that things are done differently in the West. Charging in head-first in a naive Asian-style to do business will leave them out in the cold.
They're not doing business in the West.
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On July 22 2011 13:15 Daniel C wrote:
I'm seriously rofolofoling at all these e-CEO's who presume to know all about "international business" putting on their grim faces and saying "this is business". I'm willing to bet that the majority of these e-directors are "Westeners" that have never even stepped foot in Asia, let alone done business here.
Reality check: business culture is different in Asia, especially South-East Asia. Here, there is a lot of emphasis on respect and "saving face" (go and google that if you don't know what it is).
Let's put aside for the moment Puma's existing contract (or lack of one), Puma's own interest and decision-making, the conditions at the TSL house, Fruitdealer's and Trickster's departures.... Obviously, Puma is going to want do the best for himself, and from a purely monetary standpoint, EG certainly did the logical thing by grabbing Puma at first opportunity. But there's more to business than pure monetary considerations. By not contacting TSL's managers, EG has shown a blatant lack of respect for the SE Asian hierarchical structure, and has caused TSL to lose face. And people are acting surprised that the Koreans are having a big reaction?
Listen up e-chairmans, next time you're in South-East Asia, try doing business by charging head-first, guns a-blazing, no-respect spaghetti-Western style with your "business is business" attitude. You'll be shown the door faster than you can say "Yankee!!".
EG's reputation took a big hit among the Koreans, and deservedly so. Whether this negatively affects other foreigner-Korean relations is another question. Hopefully they'll learn from their mistakes and be smarter about their actions in the future.
Idd.
I made a post on GG about this.
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My point on this is. It is okay to pick up Puma, but it is not okay to do it without talking to TSL about it first.
If people know just a tiny bit about Asian moral, honor and ethic you know it is good to talk to the team out of respect...There is a reason why "Foreign" companies has to make buildings with Feng Shui in China to take an example. In Japan it is mandatory to get a large barrel of sake and break the top before opening a company what ever.
It is just a custom to do it the right way and EG didn't do that imo.
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On July 22 2011 13:24 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 13:23 xBillehx wrote:On July 22 2011 13:19 Jetsfan wrote:
I'm betting that if this was Puma is leaving TSL for Team Liquid, within the same situation it would be seen as a good thing. But because it's EG everyone just wants to hate.
I disagree, if TL went behind the back of Coach Lee (which they would never do out of pure respect) and had Alex G as their PR representative the backlash would be similar. Not everyone's a blind hater. It's a TL site, I doubt they'd get as much hate.
I think you would be surprised.
Besides that, Nazgul would never go out of his way to do something like that. He's very familiar with how Koreans do business.
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On July 22 2011 13:22 Duravi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 13:19 Jetsfan wrote:
I'm betting that if this was Puma is leaving TSL for Team Liquid, within the same situation it would be seen as a good thing. But because it's EG everyone just wants to hate.
If TL was going to acquire a player from a korean team do you honestly think in your wildest of dreams this is the way they would go about it?
They may. Did TL talk to the employers of their first female pro-poster before hiring her? I doubt it, the situation is the same thing. Nobody was obligated to speak to anyone.
EG approached Puma, Puma liked the opportunity he will be given and decided to take it
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On July 22 2011 13:21 Azzur wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 13:15 Daniel C wrote:
I'm seriously rofolofoling at all these e-CEO's who presume to know all about "international business" putting on their grim faces and saying "this is business". I'm willing to bet that the majority of these e-directors are "Westeners" that have never even stepped foot in Asia, let alone done business here.
Reality check: business culture is different in Asia, especially South-East Asia. Here, there is a lot of emphasis on respect and "saving face" (go and google that if you don't know what it is).
Let's put aside for the moment Puma's existing contract (or lack of one), Puma's own interest and decision-making, the conditions at the TSL house, Fruitdealer's and Trickster's departures.... Obviously, Puma is going to want do the best for himself, and from a purely monetary standpoint, EG did the certainly did the logical thing by grabbing Puma at first opportunity. But there's more to business than pure monetary considerations. By not contacting TSL's managers, EG has shown a blatant lack of respect for the SE Asian hierarchical structure, and has caused TSL to lose face. And people are acting surprised that the Korean's are having a big reaction?
Listen up e-chairmans, next time you're in South-East Asia, try doing business by charging head-first, guns a-blazing, no-respect spaghetti-Western style with your "business is business" attitude. You'll be shown the door faster than you can say "Yankee!!".
EG's reputation took a big hit among the Koreans, and deservedly so. Whether this negatively affects other foreigner-Korean relations is another question. Hopefully they'll learn from their mistakes and be smarter about their actions in the future.
Similarly, Asian countries need to understand that things are done differently in the West. Charging in head-first in a naive Asian-style to do business will leave them out in the cold.
Sure, that's true. But answer me this: do the foreigners need the Koreans more or vice versa? Who has the more established pro scene? If Korea was wanting in with the NBA, I'm sure they would adapt to the American style of business.
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On July 22 2011 13:27 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 13:24 Serpico wrote:On July 22 2011 13:23 xBillehx wrote:On July 22 2011 13:19 Jetsfan wrote:
I'm betting that if this was Puma is leaving TSL for Team Liquid, within the same situation it would be seen as a good thing. But because it's EG everyone just wants to hate.
I disagree, if TL went behind the back of Coach Lee (which they would never do out of pure respect) and had Alex G as their PR representative the backlash would be similar. Not everyone's a blind hater. It's a TL site, I doubt they'd get as much hate. I think you would be surprised. Besides that, Nazgul would never go out of his way to do something like that. He's very familiar with how Koreans do business.
Thats the thing, EG isn't doing buisness with Koreans, they are doing buisness with a Korean. Nobody else is involved otheer then Puma and EG
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On July 22 2011 13:23 xBillehx wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 13:19 Jetsfan wrote:
I'm betting that if this was Puma is leaving TSL for Team Liquid, within the same situation it would be seen as a good thing. But because it's EG everyone just wants to hate.
I disagree, if TL went behind the back of Coach Lee (which they would never do out of pure respect) and had Alex G as their PR representative the backlash would be similar. Not everyone's a blind hater.
Except, at least according to WoC interview EG never went behind the back of Coach Lee. It sounds like Puma wanted to be the one to talk to Coach Lee. Lets not be naive and pretend that teams are not talking directly to other players. Players have contracts to insure they stay with a team.
I'm curious what other teams approached Korean players outside of EG and NASL/MLG/Dreamhack. I would have a hard time believing that it never happened.
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Milkis I could understand why you got a little angry during the show today.
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On July 22 2011 13:21 Jetsfan wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 15:00 Milkis wrote:
Update: Notes from Weapon of Choice
- EG did approach Puma first, and then Puma and EG agreed that it would be for the best if Puma talked to the coach. EG never contacted the coach after that.
Nor were they obligated too.
No but it's a respect thing to contact the coach. Not contacting him is disrespectful. Therefore, EG disrespected coach lee and TSL.
and I don't understand "EG never contacted the coach after that" part. They never did it in the first place so "after that" makes no sense.
according to the post.
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On July 22 2011 13:27 Jetsfan wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 13:22 Duravi wrote:On July 22 2011 13:19 Jetsfan wrote:
I'm betting that if this was Puma is leaving TSL for Team Liquid, within the same situation it would be seen as a good thing. But because it's EG everyone just wants to hate.
If TL was going to acquire a player from a korean team do you honestly think in your wildest of dreams this is the way they would go about it? They may. Did TL talk to the employers of their first female pro-poster before hiring her? I doubt it, the situation is the same thing. Nobody was obligated to speak to anyone. EG approached Puma, Puma liked the opportunity he will be given and decided to take it
Assumptions and speculation lead nowhere.
Don't bring SirJolt's blogs into this. Bullshit gets us nowhere either.
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On July 22 2011 13:19 Jetsfan wrote:
I'm betting that if this was Puma is leaving TSL for Team Liquid, within the same situation it would be seen as a good thing. But because it's EG everyone just wants to hate.
I don't think Team Liquid would ever conduct business the way EG does, so this isn't a real concern.
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looks like it's time for kespa to crack the slave whips
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On July 22 2011 13:25 kardinal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 13:19 Jetsfan wrote:
I'm betting that if this was Puma is leaving TSL for Team Liquid, within the same situation it would be seen as a good thing. But because it's EG everyone just wants to hate.
That's implying that the management behind teamliquid would make a retarded player poach like that.
God, you and the people who keep saying poached are retarded. The only thing EG poached were their eggs this morning
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On July 22 2011 13:22 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 13:15 Daniel C wrote:
I'm seriously rofolofoling at all these e-CEO's who presume to know all about "international business" putting on their grim faces and saying "this is business". I'm willing to bet that the majority of these e-directors are "Westeners" that have never even stepped foot in Asia, let alone done business here.
Reality check: business culture is different in Asia, especially South-East Asia. Here, there is a lot of emphasis on respect and "saving face" (go and google that if you don't know what it is).
Let's put aside for the moment Puma's existing contract (or lack of one), Puma's own interest and decision-making, the conditions at the TSL house, Fruitdealer's and Trickster's departures.... Obviously, Puma is going to want to the best for himself, and from a purely monetary standpoint, EG did the certainly did the logical thing by grabbing Puma at first opportunity. But there's more to business than pure monetary considerations. By not contacting TSL's managers, EG has shown a blatant lack of respect for the SE Asian hierarchical structure, and has caused TSL to lose face. And people are acting surprised that the Korean's are having a big reaction?
Listen up e-chairmans, next time you're in South-East Asia, try doing business by charging head-first, guns a-blazing, no-respect spaghetti-Western style with your "business is business" attitude. You'll be shown the door faster than you can say "Yankee!!".
While I am on the fence about what EG did (or may not have done), I realize that some of the things posted in this thread are inaccurate, and it would be fool hearty to place all of the blame on EG without knowing for sure what exactly happened. Furthermore I find the tone of your post to be very condescending towards people from the west, particular those of us who are "yankees". There may be a different business climate in Asia than in the west, but I can definitely say that while there may be a principle of saving face in South East Asian business, it clearly is not as important to some people to do the same while representing themselves in public.
I'm sorry I offended you. I was only responding to the vocal majority. Certainly, there are many smart and intelligent people in every country, and many trolls.
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On July 22 2011 13:26 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 13:21 Azzur wrote:On July 22 2011 13:15 Daniel C wrote:
I'm seriously rofolofoling at all these e-CEO's who presume to know all about "international business" putting on their grim faces and saying "this is business". I'm willing to bet that the majority of these e-directors are "Westeners" that have never even stepped foot in Asia, let alone done business here.
Reality check: business culture is different in Asia, especially South-East Asia. Here, there is a lot of emphasis on respect and "saving face" (go and google that if you don't know what it is).
Let's put aside for the moment Puma's existing contract (or lack of one), Puma's own interest and decision-making, the conditions at the TSL house, Fruitdealer's and Trickster's departures.... Obviously, Puma is going to want do the best for himself, and from a purely monetary standpoint, EG did the certainly did the logical thing by grabbing Puma at first opportunity. But there's more to business than pure monetary considerations. By not contacting TSL's managers, EG has shown a blatant lack of respect for the SE Asian hierarchical structure, and has caused TSL to lose face. And people are acting surprised that the Korean's are having a big reaction?
Listen up e-chairmans, next time you're in South-East Asia, try doing business by charging head-first, guns a-blazing, no-respect spaghetti-Western style with your "business is business" attitude. You'll be shown the door faster than you can say "Yankee!!".
EG's reputation took a big hit among the Koreans, and deservedly so. Whether this negatively affects other foreigner-Korean relations is another question. Hopefully they'll learn from their mistakes and be smarter about their actions in the future.
Similarly, Asian countries need to understand that things are done differently in the West. Charging in head-first in a naive Asian-style to do business will leave them out in the cold. They're not doing business in the West.
Seems like they just did.
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EPT
