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On July 22 2011 05:23 bonifaceviii wrote:Guys, I know not a lot of you follow market news but this is happening, like, right now. All the marketing executives of Research in Motion are getting sniped by Samsung (a KOREAN company).Show nested quote +As RIM engages in layoffs, weathers investor criticism, and struggles to reassert itself in the mobile industry, the company may be facing something of a brain drain: a senior product manager for RIM’s PlayBook tablet, Ryan Bidan, has jumped ship to Samsung Mobile to service as director of product marketing—at least according to his LInkedIn profile.
The move comes barely a month after RIM’s chief marketing office Brain Wallace left the company for Samsung; that defection, in term, followed only a few months after the departure of Keith Pardy, who had headed up RIM’s BlackBerry marketing efforts. At the time, RIM did not announce a replacement, instead indicating co-CEO Jim Balsillie would be taking on more promotional duties.
The move comes after the lackluster launch of the BlackBerry PlayBook, which has so far failed to meet sales expectations and has generally been greeted with half-hearted reviews that the device simply was not ready for market.
Industry watchers speculate RIM may be in for more high-level defections as the company continues to engage in layoffs. Dissatisfaction within the company seem high; RIM recently had to take the unusual step of publicly responding to an open letter, apparently from a high-level RIM exec, outlining eight steps he or she believed would be critical to turning the company around. The author of the letter claimed to be articulating concerns from a “huge percentage” of RIM’s employee base. When your company is imploding, other companies will come and make offers to your talent. It's just business.
How rude of those Koreans!
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On July 22 2011 05:16 JinDesu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 05:14 Jerubaal wrote:
I'm trying not to make generalizations about the Korean scene, but I'm getting a real 'good ol' boy' feeling from Coach Lee's comments. Like he's not mad about losing a player, but about losing the absolute power he had over his players. These players can't leave Korea unless they have sponsorship. Do you think any Korean would not sign a contract that had a clause requiring them to go through the team? Of course they'd sign it; they have no idea of their value until they join a team. Do you think the teams would then let them join a foreign team? Not very many.
What makes you think this...? Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 05:15 JWD wrote:On July 22 2011 05:08 Shamrock_ wrote:
In the business world conduct like this is so thoroughly frowned upon that other companies may not even work with you. I can absolutely understand TSL's problem with it and I think EG should've seen this coming. It is? I'm curious what exactly you mean. I don't know that much about standard employment practices but I am pretty sure it's regular in the U.S. to set up a second job before you quit your first, and give your two weeks' notice/notify your employer of the other job only once you have that job set up. My understanding is that it's mostly NCCs that prevent companies from approaching other companies' employees with job offers, not business ethics. I can think of a couple examples to support this understanding: college football coaches being hired away by NFL teams before announcing that they've left their colleges, low-level execs at companies being courted for CEO-ships at other companies... What examples are you thinking of when you say that this conduct is "frowned upon"? I know that headhunters are the bane of any workplace. I've had to deal with a few, and they always come across as "hush hush, don't tell anyone, but we can get you a better deal". Also, I work in the engineering field, and I know that whenever some group tries to take a co-worker, and the bosses find out, they then alienate that group and ask all their contacts to do so. It's pretty risky to jump ship if your original workplace may find out that you got headhunted.
(Paraphrasing from OP) 'There should be rules in place to prevent foreign teams from stealing our players.'
And to comment on your second paragraphy, it's pretty common in my experience to keep potential job opportunities from your employers because often they just fire you if they find out you are looking elsewhere.
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On July 22 2011 05:27 PHC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 05:24 vrok wrote:
Can we stop using lameass Twitter and stick to TL where people just get banned for saying stupid shit? That would be even better. The problem is that he's directly hurling racist comments to Milkis on Twitter. Considering he's the OP and a TL translator. I think that's pretty relevant, don't you?
Not really. It's relevant to Milkis, but not relevant to this thread. The comments you copied were not made on TL. It's more or less the same as getting angry over comments people make on 4chan or Reddit, and then copying them here and saying "OMG guys stop it".
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On July 22 2011 05:29 vrok wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 05:27 PHC wrote:On July 22 2011 05:24 vrok wrote:On July 22 2011 05:22 PHC wrote:On another note, some esports fans are showing their true colors: Aikepah Austin Welch @OrangeMilkis I would call him unemployed because he wasn't getting paid from TSL  26 minutes ago Aikepah Austin Welch @OrangeMilkis It wouldn't be an issue if Koreans grew up and stopped crying just because TSL lost all of their players to teams that pay. 5 minutes ago Wooju Lee @Aikepah Can you stop tweeting me culturally insensitive nonsense? Thanks. 4 minutes ago via web Aikepah Austin Welch@OrangeMilkis If koreans want to be stupid little fucktards that need to grow up, then no, I wont stop, especially since you are one of them2 minutes ago Yuck, can we stop with posts like these...? Holy shit. Disgusting to think he's a part of our community. Can we stop using lameass Twitter and stick to TL where people just get banned for saying stupid shit? That would be even better. The problem is that he's directly hurling racist comments to Milkis on Twitter. Considering he's the OP and a TL translator. I think that's pretty relevant, don't you? Actually, I don't. I think that if Milkis wants to expose himself to anonymous ignorant morons then that's his problem.
Methinks it's time to get Chill to moderate Twitter.
(Just kidding Chill, you'd likely lose the rest of your faith in humanity) :D
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seems like tsl is a little hurt they cant protect their talent. it is their own fault really. as they say, no scratch, no snatch.
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Why didn't TSL make a counteroffer to Puma if they wanted to keep him? Or if they did and Puma rejected it, why are they now whining to the press? Some way to show respect for a player's decision.
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Well, I honestly don't think Puma will improve. Living in a Korean house is very important for the success of a player. Developing rapport, trust, new strategies, discipline to train 12 hours a day.
I don't think EG has those intangibles that TSL, OGs, SLayers, or Star tales have. that is why, the move is a long term, loser for Puma. but a short term Boon financially wise. Puma will be able to buy a nice Hyundai or Kia, a nice samsung. maybe a hot girl friend. I don't really see the point of the move by EG though.
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On July 22 2011 05:28 JWD wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 05:23 bonifaceviii wrote:Guys, I know not a lot of you follow market news but this is happening, like, right now. All the marketing executives of Research in Motion are getting sniped by Samsung (a KOREAN company).As RIM engages in layoffs, weathers investor criticism, and struggles to reassert itself in the mobile industry, the company may be facing something of a brain drain: a senior product manager for RIM’s PlayBook tablet, Ryan Bidan, has jumped ship to Samsung Mobile to service as director of product marketing—at least according to his LInkedIn profile.
The move comes barely a month after RIM’s chief marketing office Brain Wallace left the company for Samsung; that defection, in term, followed only a few months after the departure of Keith Pardy, who had headed up RIM’s BlackBerry marketing efforts. At the time, RIM did not announce a replacement, instead indicating co-CEO Jim Balsillie would be taking on more promotional duties.
The move comes after the lackluster launch of the BlackBerry PlayBook, which has so far failed to meet sales expectations and has generally been greeted with half-hearted reviews that the device simply was not ready for market.
Industry watchers speculate RIM may be in for more high-level defections as the company continues to engage in layoffs. Dissatisfaction within the company seem high; RIM recently had to take the unusual step of publicly responding to an open letter, apparently from a high-level RIM exec, outlining eight steps he or she believed would be critical to turning the company around. The author of the letter claimed to be articulating concerns from a “huge percentage” of RIM’s employee base. When your company is imploding, other companies will come and make offers to your talent. It's just business. Really interesting point, thanks. With a google search I turned up this article that indicates that "poaching" employees is commonplace and on the rise. See also this article titled "Seeing your employees getting poached — it’s not all bad". It seems that poaching employees (like EG acquired PuMa) is a very common business practice.
That second article doesn't really make poaching any better lol.. one is your customer poaching your worker, which is good because it can strengthen the relationship between your company and your customer.
The second bit is that when your competitor poaches your worker, you get information back from your worker because "people socialize". That doesn't change the fact that if your competitor takes one of your best workers, you end up shorthanded in the field that your worker was in. Maybe not so big in the business world, but I think that's pretty huge in the GSTL.
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On July 22 2011 05:22 [Atomic]Peace wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 05:19 ronpaul012 wrote:On July 22 2011 05:15 JWD wrote:On July 22 2011 05:08 Shamrock_ wrote:
In the business world conduct like this is so thoroughly frowned upon that other companies may not even work with you. I can absolutely understand TSL's problem with it and I think EG should've seen this coming. It is? I'm curious what exactly you mean. I don't know that much about standard employment practices but I am pretty sure it's regular in the U.S. to set up a second job before you quit your first, and give your two weeks' notice/notify your employer of the other job only once you have that job set up. My understanding is that it's mostly NCCs that prevent companies from approaching other companies' employees with job offers, not business ethics. I can think of a couple examples to support this understanding: college football coaches being hired away by NFL teams before announcing that they've left their colleges, low-level execs at companies being courted for CEO-ships at other companies... What examples are you thinking of when you say that this conduct is "frowned upon"? A few things. First of all most of the time the employee is the one that searches out for a new job, very rarely does the other business offer the person a job without applying. The other thing I think that tsl is annoyed at was where it happened. They talked to him during nasl, not through an email. Its like showing up at a somebodies job, while they're working and saying hey, you should come work for us. Does it happen sometimes? Sure. Does that mean its professional? Well that comes down to your personal point of view. This is a massive overgeneralization and wrong in the case of top Starcraft talent (a sellers market). People with Puma's level of skill are hard to find and thus buyers seek them out. Do you think Idra would have to lift a finger in order to find a new job if he moved from EG? I agree with your point about doing it at the tournament, that is a little unprofessional. But you have to weigh that against the fact that EG wouldn't have been able to talk to Puma face to face after he went back to Korea.
So you sound like you might be a fan of idra. Lets say that hes at nasl, and teamliquid shows up and goes directly to him, offers him a contract(assuming he doesn't have one, i believe he does though). Then idra goes back to eg and says i'm going to teamliquid. Pretty sure all eg fans would be like WTF you sneaky little teamliquid bitches. Just saying...
I personally dont really care, as this doesn't affect me and if anything I'll benefit because I get to watch more games. But coming from tsl's perspective, it makes a lot of sense that they'd be pissed.
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On July 22 2011 05:22 PHC wrote:On another note, some esports fans are showing their true colors: Aikepah Austin Welch @OrangeMilkis I would call him unemployed because he wasn't getting paid from TSL 26 minutes ago Aikepah Austin Welch @OrangeMilkis It wouldn't be an issue if Koreans grew up and stopped crying just because TSL lost all of their players to teams that pay. 5 minutes ago Wooju Lee @Aikepah Can you stop tweeting me culturally insensitive nonsense? Thanks. 4 minutes ago via web Aikepah Austin Welch@OrangeMilkis If koreans want to be stupid little fucktards that need to grow up, then no, I wont stop, especially since you are one of them2 minutes ago Yuck, can we stop with posts like these...? Holy shit. Disgusting to think he's a part of our community.
How embarrassing. Way to insult one of the best community members that TL and SC2 community has.
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On July 22 2011 05:29 vrok wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 05:27 PHC wrote:On July 22 2011 05:24 vrok wrote:On July 22 2011 05:22 PHC wrote:On another note, some esports fans are showing their true colors: Aikepah Austin Welch @OrangeMilkis I would call him unemployed because he wasn't getting paid from TSL 26 minutes ago Aikepah Austin Welch @OrangeMilkis It wouldn't be an issue if Koreans grew up and stopped crying just because TSL lost all of their players to teams that pay. 5 minutes ago Wooju Lee @Aikepah Can you stop tweeting me culturally insensitive nonsense? Thanks. 4 minutes ago via web Aikepah Austin Welch@OrangeMilkis If koreans want to be stupid little fucktards that need to grow up, then no, I wont stop, especially since you are one of them2 minutes ago Yuck, can we stop with posts like these...? Holy shit. Disgusting to think he's a part of our community. Can we stop using lameass Twitter and stick to TL where people just get banned for saying stupid shit? That would be even better. The problem is that he's directly hurling racist comments to Milkis on Twitter. Considering he's the OP and a TL translator. I think that's pretty relevant, don't you? Actually, I don't. I think that if Milkis wants to expose himself to anonymous ignorant morons then that's his problem.
No dude, it's OUR problem.
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On July 22 2011 05:19 ronpaul012 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 05:15 JWD wrote:On July 22 2011 05:08 Shamrock_ wrote:
In the business world conduct like this is so thoroughly frowned upon that other companies may not even work with you. I can absolutely understand TSL's problem with it and I think EG should've seen this coming. It is? I'm curious what exactly you mean. I don't know that much about standard employment practices but I am pretty sure it's regular in the U.S. to set up a second job before you quit your first, and give your two weeks' notice/notify your employer of the other job only once you have that job set up. My understanding is that it's mostly NCCs that prevent companies from approaching other companies' employees with job offers, not business ethics. I can think of a couple examples to support this understanding: college football coaches being hired away by NFL teams before announcing that they've left their colleges, low-level execs at companies being courted for CEO-ships at other companies... What examples are you thinking of when you say that this conduct is "frowned upon"? A few things. First of all most of the time the employee is the one that searches out for a new job, very rarely does the other business offer the person a job without applying. The other thing I think that tsl is annoyed at was where it happened. They talked to him during nasl, not through an email. Its like showing up at a somebodies job, while they're working and saying hey, you should come work for us. Does it happen sometimes? Sure. Does that mean its professional? Well that comes down to your personal point of view.
I would love to join the merry poppins and butterfly corporate world you live in. These teams are businesses apart of an idustry. In the end they are in competition. If Kobe Bryant, Sydney Crosby or some other amazing athelete didn't have a contract to his name and someone picked them up would you bat an eye. The exposure PuMa will now get will make him an all-star world wide and he won't be forgotten to us foreigners as some lost korean sitting in the TSL house never to be heard from again after we vaguely recall him from NASL 1. Good for him, good for EG, good for foreign e-sports.
AWWWW YEAH
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whens it on since they never update the thread?
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This makes me absolutely sick to my stomach... EG did this to complexity's counterstrike team and now they do this to TSL... something tells me the people behind EG are a little fishy... i hope EG didn't just make it so that no Koreans will come to the US now... because I wouldn't doubt it if teams start not allowing their players to go to the US just because of this incident... shame on you EG... get some class
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what is this? it doesn't matter what you think about what eg did or not
the player was offered something and looked at what he had and made a decision based on what was best for him.
all these people saying eg shouldn't have done this or that , do not know whether puma even cares about that
i would directly ask puma about the switch if anything and hear it from the main person involved and stop blaming eg about being shady and all that stuff they just did buisness and that is all
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On July 22 2011 05:29 vrok wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 05:27 PHC wrote:On July 22 2011 05:24 vrok wrote:On July 22 2011 05:22 PHC wrote:On another note, some esports fans are showing their true colors: Aikepah Austin Welch @OrangeMilkis I would call him unemployed because he wasn't getting paid from TSL 26 minutes ago Aikepah Austin Welch @OrangeMilkis It wouldn't be an issue if Koreans grew up and stopped crying just because TSL lost all of their players to teams that pay. 5 minutes ago Wooju Lee @Aikepah Can you stop tweeting me culturally insensitive nonsense? Thanks. 4 minutes ago via web Aikepah Austin Welch@OrangeMilkis If koreans want to be stupid little fucktards that need to grow up, then no, I wont stop, especially since you are one of them2 minutes ago Yuck, can we stop with posts like these...? Holy shit. Disgusting to think he's a part of our community. Can we stop using lameass Twitter and stick to TL where people just get banned for saying stupid shit? That would be even better. The problem is that he's directly hurling racist comments to Milkis on Twitter. Considering he's the OP and a TL translator. I think that's pretty relevant, don't you? Actually, I don't. I think that if Milkis wants to expose himself to anonymous ignorant morons then that's his problem.
Problem is, the self-exposing he's doing is contributing to TL through a skill that is in high demand on a site like this. If that's what he gets for translating as he does, it kind of disincentivizes translating. That's why the rude comments on Twitter are problematic.
Related note: Milkis, will you be translating SirScoots's comments into English when he issues them?
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Good decision by EG, with Puma they would strengthen their Terran lineup and have also have a decent Terran to practice with. I'm curious whether Puma gonna to stay in Korea or move to the EG House in the US, gonna to wait until EG actual make an official statement (also want to hear EG side of the story).
Wish the best of luck to Puma and hope that the Korean teams/community won't generalize EG's action as all the foreigner teams action as a whole, after all its just one team.
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djWHEAT djWHEAT
LIVE @ 7PM EDT: @WeapOfChoice with EG's Alex Garfield & @OrangeMilkis discussing PUMA/TSL/EG situation! http://www.OneMoreGame.tv
From Wheats twitter. Probably another dose of lying like the ITG/SOTG situation; I don't believe much of what EG says anymore, especially when it comes out of SirScoots' mouth.
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What's the point? We'll still have people on here calling them devious liars.
If I was Sir Scoots, I'd say- 'Fuck you, I don't have to explain myself to you. I was in ESPORTS when you were still shitting your diapers! I AM ESPORTS!' (intentional humor there)
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EPT
