Puma leaves TSL for EG - Page 228

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Oh.Canada

Canada139 Posts

July 21 2011 20:36 GMT

#4541

On July 22 2011 05:34 Falcor wrote:

Show nested quote +

whens it on since they never update the thread?

Look at the TL calendar. 2h 25m as of right now

p1cKLes

United States342 Posts

July 21 2011 20:36 GMT

#4542

On July 22 2011 05:33 ronpaul012 wrote:

Show nested quote +

On July 22 2011 05:22 [Atomic]Peace wrote:

On July 22 2011 05:19 ronpaul012 wrote:

On July 22 2011 05:15 JWD wrote:

On July 22 2011 05:08 Shamrock_ wrote:
In the business world conduct like this is so thoroughly frowned upon that other companies may not even work with you. I can absolutely understand TSL's problem with it and I think EG should've seen this coming.

It is? I'm curious what exactly you mean.

I don't know that much about standard employment practices but I am pretty sure it's regular in the U.S. to set up a second job before you quit your first, and give your two weeks' notice/notify your employer of the other job only once you have that job set up. My understanding is that it's mostly NCCs that prevent companies from approaching other companies' employees with job offers, not business ethics.

I can think of a couple examples to support this understanding: college football coaches being hired away by NFL teams before announcing that they've left their colleges, low-level execs at companies being courted for CEO-ships at other companies...

What examples are you thinking of when you say that this conduct is "frowned upon"?

A few things. First of all most of the time the employee is the one that searches out for a new job, very rarely does the other business offer the person a job without applying. The other thing I think that tsl is annoyed at was where it happened. They talked to him during nasl, not through an email. Its like showing up at a somebodies job, while they're working and saying hey, you should come work for us. Does it happen sometimes? Sure. Does that mean its professional? Well that comes down to your personal point of view.

This is a massive overgeneralization and wrong in the case of top Starcraft talent (a sellers market). People with Puma's level of skill are hard to find and thus buyers seek them out. Do you think Idra would have to lift a finger in order to find a new job if he moved from EG? I agree with your point about doing it at the tournament, that is a little unprofessional. But you have to weigh that against the fact that EG wouldn't have been able to talk to Puma face to face after he went back to Korea.

So you sound like you might be a fan of idra. Lets say that hes at nasl, and teamliquid shows up and goes directly to him, offers him a contract(assuming he doesn't have one, i believe he does though). Then idra goes back to eg and says i'm going to teamliquid. Pretty sure all eg fans would be like WTF you sneaky little teamliquid bitches. Just saying...

I personally dont really care, as this doesn't affect me and if anything I'll benefit because I get to watch more games. But coming from tsl's perspective, it makes a lot of sense that they'd be pissed.

I'm just quoting you because I love your name... Go Ron Paul!!!! 2012 Baby..

Falcor

Canada894 Posts

July 21 2011 20:36 GMT

#4543

On July 22 2011 05:35 Jerubaal wrote:

Show nested quote +

What's the point? We'll still have people on here calling them devious liars.

If I was Sir Scoots, I'd say- 'Fuck you, I don't have to explain myself to you. I was in ESPORTS when you were still shitting your diapers! I AM ESPORTS!' (intentional humor there)

and ive been fucking over other teams back then too!

nRoot

Germany928 Posts

July 21 2011 20:36 GMT

#4544

How is there still no Statement from EG? Did they not prepare anything when talking to PuMa?

Looks kind of stupid really, who is responsible for that kind of stuff over at EG?

chatuka

1351 Posts

July 21 2011 20:37 GMT

#4545

Ronpaul, you know all about financial coups and corruption. you have perspective about politics since you know about who really runs your country. The Federal Reserve. but you are right, I think lots of EG fans would be hurt by the betrayal of Idra, if he did that and if TL went behind EG to make him a deal. As long as their are no Written contracts, there is no guaranteed loyalty or commitment from a player.

As for TSL, they shouldn't be that pissed. It'll pass and they'll get more players in south Korea. Who knows the next Flash could be knocking on the doorsteps of TSL.

DeepElemBlues

United States5079 Posts

July 21 2011 20:37 GMT

#4546

All I can say to TSL is, welcome to the world of professional sports, where if there are not firm rules about signing talent or you don't have airtight contracts (or contracts at all), other teams will snipe your players from time to time if they can.

TheAlchemist89

160 Posts

July 21 2011 20:37 GMT

#4547

On July 22 2011 05:36 nRoot wrote:
How is there still no Statement from EG? Did they not prepare anything when talking to PuMa?

Looks kind of stupid really, who is responsible for that kind of stuff over at EG?

It'll be on WeaponOfChoice tonight. (In a few hours actually).

GhandiEAGLE

United States20754 Posts

July 21 2011 20:37 GMT

#4548

With this and FXO's obtaining of fOu, it appears foreigners have broken through. Starcraft2 is officially WORLDWIDE!!!! CELEBRATE!!!!!!!!!!

yawnoC

United States3704 Posts

July 21 2011 20:37 GMT

#4549

Now it makes wonder if something similar happened with RAIN when he left TSL and ended up joining fnatic.

I understand why Coach Lee is upset. He has every right to be. I am still waiting for EGs side of the story though. It should be interesting.

Telebear

United Kingdom107 Posts

July 21 2011 20:38 GMT

#4550

On July 22 2011 05:34 Secret05 wrote:
something tells me the people behind EG are a little fishy

this company that makes good business decisions...... Fishy to me!

moxley

United States65 Posts

July 21 2011 20:39 GMT

#4551

if Puma was under a contract EG would have no choice but to work things out through TSL management.. but that wasn't the case, and TSL seems to have just been generously providing a house, practice area, food, etc to their players without actually binding them to a contract..

seems like a bad business move that's bitten them in the ass.. it's embarrassing for them, and I'm sure they'll do whatever they can to badmouth EG in order to keep the spotlight off of their mistaken handling of their players

if there's widespread contract reform in Korea then all of the other Korean teams should be thankful that it was TSL that took the hit instead of them.. but the blame for this shouldn't be on EG.. they're just doing business, and it's not good business for TSL to hope that everyone else does the right thing.. this situation was inevitable and if it wasn't EG and/or Puma it would have been some other team/player that brought about this realization and forced Korean teams to develop a firmer grip on their rosters..

farnham

1378 Posts

July 21 2011 20:39 GMT

#4552

On July 22 2011 05:37 yawnoC wrote:
Now it makes wonder if something similar happened with RAIN when he left TSL and ended up joining fnatic.

I understand why Coach Lee is upset. He has every right to be. I am still waiting for EGs side of the story though. It should be interesting.

no. he has no right to be upset. he failed to secure the loyalty of his team through contracts. he made the mistake and he gets punished for it

if anything he needs to be kicking himself and he needs to get some contracts done with his remaining crew.

StarcraftKevin

United States285 Posts

July 21 2011 20:39 GMT

#4553

On July 22 2011 05:22 PHC wrote:
On another note, some esports fans are showing their true colors:

Aikepah Austin Welch
@OrangeMilkis I would call him unemployed because he wasn't getting paid from TSL

26 minutes ago

Aikepah Austin Welch
@OrangeMilkis It wouldn't be an issue if Koreans grew up and stopped crying just because TSL lost all of their players to teams that pay.
5 minutes ago

Wooju Lee
@Aikepah Can you stop tweeting me culturally insensitive nonsense? Thanks.
4 minutes ago via web

Aikepah Austin Welch
@OrangeMilkis If koreans want to be stupid little fucktards that need to grow up, then no, I wont stop, especially since you are one of them
2 minutes ago

Yuck, can we stop with posts like these...? Holy shit. Disgusting to think he's a part of our community.

wow. that is pretty nasty. its sad. People are so quick to say things because talk is cheap.
its sad. really.

MrDudeMan

Canada973 Posts

July 21 2011 20:39 GMT

#4554

On July 22 2011 05:17 Ansinjunger wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

On July 22 2011 05:04 MrDudeMan wrote:

Show nested quote +

If he really wanted what is best for puma, he would not be upset about this at all. Puma got a great deal out of this, as did EG, the only party that suffered was TSL. Also, just because it is korean culture does not make it superior. Its kind of ironic how people talk about the trust and faith that korea is supposedly built on, yet you are not free to state an anonymous opinion on the internet.

You pretty much failed to understand Lee's comments. This is the difference between a person running away from home and sending a letter to his parents a week later, or just being honest with them in the first place. Why shouldn't he be upset?

And what are these anonymous opinions people aren't free to state on the internet? That's utterly wrong and ridiculous. If you're referring to the SlayerS_Jessica/Eve thing, it's 100% clear people can say whatever they want on the internet until they are putting the lives of others at risk, for which there is already a serious precedent. It's no different than yelling "fire" in a theater. Listen to Artosis talk about that on SotG if you don't believe it-it's around the 30 minute mark where they discuss Major first.

In order to sign up for most things internet-related in korea, you are required to provide something called an SSN (I think its called this), that can pretty much track you directly to your address. This means that you are not anonymous on the korean internet. I've heard the SotG and I'm not condoning the responses involved in the whole SlayerS_Jessica situation, I am simply stating the irony in the belief that korea is based around trust when the government does not have enough trust in its citizens to allow them to maintain anonymity.

My other point was that Coach Lee is simply playing the victim. If all he truly cared about was Puma's best interest, then it should not matter to him how EG went about this. If he did feel disrespected then he should have remained silent about it or addressed it with EG internally, as all this has done is given Puma and his new team a bad public image. You should not compare this to a family situation. Puma was with TSL for about 10 months, not as their son but as essentially an employee, if the team is truly ran in a family manner, then Puma would not have left.

legaton

France1763 Posts

July 21 2011 20:39 GMT

#4555

On July 22 2011 05:35 ProxyKnoxy wrote:
djWHEAT djWHEAT
LIVE @ 7PM EDT: @WeapOfChoice with EG's Alex Garfield & @OrangeMilkis discussing PUMA/TSL/EG situation! http://www.OneMoreGame.tv

From Wheats twitter. Probably another dose of lying like the ITG/SOTG situation; I don't believe much of what EG says anymore, especially when it comes out of SirScoots' mouth.

I'm expecting Alex Garfield to reveal he actually is Milkis father.

Angelbelow

United States3728 Posts

July 21 2011 20:39 GMT

#4556

On July 22 2011 05:35 Jerubaal wrote:

Show nested quote +

What's the point? We'll still have people on here calling them devious liars.

If I was Sir Scoots, I'd say- 'Fuck you, I don't have to explain myself to you. I was in ESPORTS when you were still shitting your diapers! I AM ESPORTS!' (intentional humor there)

Lol thats so true. At the end of the day, no matter how bad EG looks in this situation, they will move on and do well and still get tons of traffic. That traffic will not have a ton of haters but that will still be revenue. GG That the nature of business.

vrok

Sweden2541 Posts

July 21 2011 20:39 GMT

#4557

On July 22 2011 05:34 RHMVNovus wrote:

Show nested quote +

Problem is, the self-exposing he's doing is contributing to TL through a skill that is in high demand on a site like this. If that's what he gets for translating as he does, it kind of disincentivizes translating. That's why the rude comments on Twitter are problematic.

Related note: Milkis, will you be translating SirScoots's comments into English when he issues them?

Not really, it disincentivizes using Twitter, or at least reading random fucktard comments on Twitter, since he gets TONS of praise on TL for translating.