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Xiaon
United States245 Posts
On July 21 2011 21:46 Olinim wrote: I'm not sure where you think you are, but you are on a forum, typically where people express their opinions. Your opinion was was that his training would be affected. Except we don't know that he isn't staying in Korea. O_O What? That's a conclusion? I know, I'm a genius. | ||
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Flanagan
United States166 Posts
On July 21 2011 21:44 Duravi wrote: Compared to a player like Puma? If you seriously want to compare Puma's skill level to players like Strifecro, Axslav, Incontrol, and Machine (not to mention Lzgamer) you are being delusional... And calling players shit because they can't post results over the OTHER BUNCH of players isn't being delusional? The team is going to have a boot camp, aka, team house set up. They're all apparently going to practice really hard, and really immerse themselves into the game like the Korean teams are doing right now. Until then, judging would be pointless... Besides, wtf? It's not like Puma isn't getting anything out of it. He's bringing up a ton of players whom the community knows has a lot of potential. At the same, he's getting a bigger salary, and he gets a taste of the whole foreign scene, not just the NASL. Comparing people in a team to their teammates is pointless, especially when you have no idea what their reasons are for joining the team. If he didn't WANT to join, then he obviously could have backed out. | ||
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MDMA_
Canada265 Posts
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sandyph
Indonesia1640 Posts
On July 21 2011 21:46 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote: Uhhh so I see a lot of irrational EG hate here. Yeah, they talked directly to a player. I get that the TSL coach is upset, and it seems underhanded, but let's look at the facts. 1) It appears he wasn't under contract. That means, for all intents and purposes, he was a free agent. 2) He could have easily said "You need to talk to my manager," and stopped the conversation there if he felt there would be an issue. He's a big boy, remember. 3) TSL could've made a counter offer. They either didn't, or didn't have the resources to. Seriously, the ends justifies the means, and EG made a great pickup. If you want to get all up in arms about "the respectful way" at least realize that TSL had their opportunities here and obviously blew it. he's 19 years old EG could easily approach him, ask him if he's interested and if he does (as in this case) just tell him, OK. we will talk with TSL to get you into on EG. Then go to TSL and find out that he doesnt have a contract anyway so EG can have him for free. The end result is the same, EG still dont pay anything, TSL still lose Puma for nothing but I bet you the community will be less divided about the news | ||
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Mojar
Australia185 Posts
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Olinim
4044 Posts
On July 21 2011 21:48 Xiaon wrote: Your opinion was was that his training would be affected. Except we don't know that he isn't staying in Korea. O_O What? That's a conclusion? I know, I'm a genius. Not being in a teamhouse is still detrimental to your training, maybe he'll have some good practice partners, but likely it won't be as productive. | ||
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EtohEtoh
Canada669 Posts
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zev318
Canada4306 Posts
On July 21 2011 21:43 Mordiford wrote: This represents somewhat of a poor trend that is started to put me off quite a bit. A couple of foreign teams have been buying out Korean players in an effort to remain competitive as opposed to trying to build their own roster, this most recent pick-up through pretty unethical means is incredibly off-putting. Basically, Koreans have the talent, the foreigners have the money and just pick up the players that Korean teams spend a lot of time training, housing and feeding. Players are an investment in Korea, and if the return on your investment into a player is to see them get poached when you send them to a foreign tournament, then that's a serious fucking problem. I think it's about time Starcraft 2 had some kind of regulatory organization in Korea for the teams or the teams should simply have diligently written binding contracts in regards to their players, and when these contracts are broken, it is time to seriously enforce them. I think teams should aim to keep 2 year contract, or maybe more in Korea and be serious about enforcing them, this is what I thought Artosis implied on SotG but apparently that's not the case. If a team wants a player, they should have to buy out their contract through management. come up with the sponsorship to pay ur players then. if your argument is "buying players is wrong", then i guess you'll hate the entire esports scene cause that's basically all it is, teams "buy" players by offering them a better contract, more sponsorship, more incentives. its the same as the real world, businesses "buy" employees from other companies. they have contracts too, when i start working, i sign an agreement, it obviously doesn't have a length to it like an esports contract but if TSL was willing to let puma go, then that's all that needs to be done. | ||
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Count9
China10928 Posts
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skrzmark
United States1528 Posts
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Vinx
Canada259 Posts
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
On July 21 2011 21:42 Olinim wrote: Which is why he gets to make the decision...doesn't mean it might not be wrong or detrimental to his training. Your post is freaking awful. PuMa is much better qualified than anyone in these forums when it comes to making decisions for himself. You should all stop complaining and be happy for him because, unless he's crazy or irrational, he only accepted because EG's deal is better than what he was getting at TSL. Also, your post if freaking awful. | ||
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agui
15 Posts
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zz_
Sweden1022 Posts
On July 21 2011 15:36 OptimusYale wrote: HOLY SHIT! I have 2 feelings about this, 1 good 1 bad. Good: Amazing korean SC player joining a team that is one of the best teams out there, a great signing picking up one of the most amazing players at the moment Bad: Player sniping needs to stop/be regulated. If TSL are 'releasing' him, it means they are getting no money back from what they invested into him. When will the player sniping stop? We've had teams like FXO take players from other teams. So many teams are just taking players at any point...it just seems silly to me to not have some kind of regulation to stop/keep this happening at the same point. We need a global body to moderate actions of teams (like FIFA) and have maybe 3 windows a year where players can be transfered/ drafted kind of like SCBW. Without it teams are going to lack consistency and lose players that should not be leaving. We need something in place to stop this! WWESA? (World Wide Esports Associsation?) FXO didn't "take" players from other teams, where did you get that from? And this isn't about "player sniping", as far as the information is right now, Puma had no binding contract with TSL. He was free to accept the offer. And no, we don't need a governing body, if anything what teams should do is write proper contracts if they wanted to keep the players. Contracts that had penalties enforced if the player decided to leave and stuff like that, which would keep players from doing stuff like this. Yeah I get that this sucks for TSL and Lee, that's too bad, I loved the guy on the Hyungjoon show. But as far as I can tell, with the info we have atm, this is pretty much nothing more than Puma getting a better offer from EG and deciding to take it. EG wasn't required to go through TSL, and from their point of view, had no reason to do do. They wanted Puma, and I would say that talking to him directly would make it far more likely to be able to recruit him, as opposed to going through TSL. | ||
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Marcus420
Canada1923 Posts
Love how everyone just blames EG. | ||
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Mr Showtime
United States1353 Posts
I feel like all of you bashing EG are acting like they slipped him a note while practicing, and when he replied yes, they sent in IdrA the creep the TSL house and put Puma in a burlap sack, and then ship him back to the US. Yes, EG could have consulted the TSL management, but TSL should be more in charge of player movements. Ultimately, I'm just excited to see the world's best Terran player go to my favorite progaming team! | ||
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wklbishop
United States1286 Posts
On July 21 2011 21:41 Belisarius wrote: What does that even mean? If anything it's worse using an eastern "standard of morality," with its sense of honour and family etc. The western capitalist outlook is probably the one in which it makes the most sense. Dumb comment. ... and how are you to judge which standard of morality makes more sense? From an "emic" (anthrologist' term for view from the person in the other culture) perspective, their standard makes perfect sense if you look at it through their context. To you Western view makes more sense because you were raised with it. | ||
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sekritzzz
1515 Posts
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Loodah
335 Posts
On July 21 2011 21:48 PanzerKing wrote: Wait, whoa, full stop. This is "unethical" how? What is EG's ethical duty to TSL? I'm not seeing it. This is a competition, why should EG have to to go the TSL manager hat-in-hand and politely ask to buy their top player instead of going to the player himself and letting the player choose which team fits him better? Because he was still on TSL. He wasn't a free agent. He simply made the deal and then asked to be released from TSL - TSL basically couldn't do anything about it and had no knowledge that the talks were occurring. This would be like the lakers trying to get LeBron without talking to the Heat - it simply can't happen in any legitimate sport. Obviously if Lebron feels like it would be better for him to go to LA he would talk to his organization and figure out how it could happen - this didn't happen in this case. This was bad for EG AND Puma in terms of their reputations. | ||
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bonifaceviii
Canada2890 Posts
On July 21 2011 21:49 sandyph wrote: EG could easily approach him, ask him if he's interested and if he does (as in this case) just tell him, OK. we will talk with TSL to get you into on EG. Then go to TSL and find out that he doesnt have a contract anyway so EG can have him for free. The end result is the same, EG still dont pay anything, TSL still lose Puma for nothing but I bet you the community will be less divided about the news I'm pretty sure PuMa would have known if he was under contract or not. Therefore the bolded step is useless. | ||
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