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This represents somewhat of a poor trend that is started to put me off quite a bit. A couple of foreign teams have been buying out Korean players in an effort to remain competitive as opposed to trying to build their own roster, this most recent pick-up through pretty unethical means is incredibly off-putting.
Basically, Koreans have the talent, the foreigners have the money and just pick up the players that Korean teams spend a lot of time training, housing and feeding. Players are an investment in Korea, and if the return on your investment into a player is to see them get poached when you send them to a foreign tournament, then that's a serious fucking problem.
I think it's about time Starcraft 2 had some kind of regulatory organization in Korea for the teams or the teams should simply have diligently written binding contracts in regards to their players, and when these contracts are broken, it is time to seriously enforce them. I think teams should aim to keep 2 year contract, or maybe more in Korea and be serious about enforcing them, this is what I thought Artosis implied on SotG but apparently that's not the case. If a team wants a player, they should have to buy out their contract through management.
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On July 21 2011 21:42 Flanagan wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 21:35 CursedRich wrote:
The only thing that Inc and Machine have done is finish high in 1, 16 man double elim tournament in over a year and not even consistenly produced, Inc wil be out of NASL and MLG before the end of the year IMO and Machine too.
The unusual format of MLG protects players and Inc wasn't even good enough to get into the top 16 after all of last years MLG's, he was ranked 18th and got a free pass as jinro and Huk didnt come back. He may well be lucky again because of the format and the fact that Koreans who have come previously will probably not come to each one allowing the free ranking points they get for starting in the top 16 to inflate their positions. OH MY GAWD GUYS, iNcontrol, Machine, Strifecro, IdrA, Axslav, ARE ALL SO BAD. THEY NEVER GET 1ST PLAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE. ... Seriously though, this mentality needs to stop. The one where since there can only be so many good players, and if you can't beat MMA to get top MLG, or Naniwa or Kiwikaki or Losira or HuK or Bomber... OBVIOUSLY THEY'RE BAD, RITE?!? /sarcasmoff
Compared to a player like Puma? If you seriously want to compare Puma's skill level to players like Strifecro, Axslav, Incontrol, and Machine (not to mention Lzgamer) you are being delusional...
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On July 21 2011 21:42 Olinim wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 21:38 enecateReAP wrote:
I think you're all forgetting the thing here...EVERYONE keeps saying "This is great for Puma, but..."
WHY BUT!?
Isn't what Puma wants the most important thing here? HE choose to do what HE thought was best, NOTHING ELSE MATTERS x.X;
This community is freaking awful.... Which is why he gets to make the decision...doesn't mean it might not be wrong or detrimental to his training. Your post is freaking awful.
And who the hell are you to judge what will be best for Puma?
You his mother or something?
Get real.
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On July 21 2011 21:42 Flanagan wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 21:35 CursedRich wrote:
The only thing that Inc and Machine have done is finish high in 1, 16 man double elim tournament in over a year and not even consistenly produced, Inc wil be out of NASL and MLG before the end of the year IMO and Machine too.
The unusual format of MLG protects players and Inc wasn't even good enough to get into the top 16 after all of last years MLG's, he was ranked 18th and got a free pass as jinro and Huk didnt come back. He may well be lucky again because of the format and the fact that Koreans who have come previously will probably not come to each one allowing the free ranking points they get for starting in the top 16 to inflate their positions. OH MY GAWD GUYS, iNcontrol, Machine, Strifecro, IdrA, Axslav, ARE ALL SO BAD. THEY NEVER GET 1ST PLAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE. ... Seriously though, this mentality needs to stop. The one where since there can only be so many good players, and if you can't beat MMA to get top MLG, or Naniwa or Kiwikaki or Losira or HuK or Bomber... OBVIOUSLY THEY'RE BAD, RITE?!? /sarcasmoff
They don't just not win, they have 40 percent win rates when they don't even participate in many prestigious tournaments.
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This is great for EG. I can see Puma making them rise to the top of the foreigner scene. In my opinion, it was a bit "dirty" of EG to ask Puma directly but you know what that's business. The coach does not own the player and in the end it was Puma's decision, not EG.
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God damn it.... Puma is my captain for Fantasy GSTL... what will he accomplish being on EG learning how to gg faster? Foreign teams need to get better on their own and stop using Korean players.
I thought TSL had a salary? Please no oGs players on a foreign team unless its liquid they deserved it.
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there is no reason for everyone to be so rude to EG. they are just doing what they need to be the best!
with the new team house there western players will get better. and now with a new ace on the team, idrA doesn't need to carry them in tournaments like in the EG masters cup.
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WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA that is crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! eg just became even more of an awesome team!!!!!
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Nice to see EG's management being the laughing stock of the community again. First it was the CS community with Promod and now the SC2 community with this shady bullshit.
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On July 21 2011 21:44 enecateReAP wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 21:42 Olinim wrote:On July 21 2011 21:38 enecateReAP wrote:
I think you're all forgetting the thing here...EVERYONE keeps saying "This is great for Puma, but..."
WHY BUT!?
Isn't what Puma wants the most important thing here? HE choose to do what HE thought was best, NOTHING ELSE MATTERS x.X;
This community is freaking awful.... Which is why he gets to make the decision...doesn't mean it might not be wrong or detrimental to his training. Your post is freaking awful. And who the hell are you to judge what will be best for Puma? You his mother or something? Get real.
Puma knows what is best for puma. End of story.
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At the end of the day it's Puma's choice to go wherever he wants. He chose to leave TSL and go to EG. Assuming his contract had expired he's free to do so, surely no one has a problem with that?
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wow this is surprising news. so many teams are picking up koreans its crazy. maybe the thought processes is that they can provide new korean strats and tendencies without the team having to always play on korean server?
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Uhhh so I see a lot of irrational EG hate here.
Yeah, they talked directly to a player. I get that the TSL coach is upset, and it seems underhanded, but let's look at the facts.
1) It appears he wasn't under contract. That means, for all intents and purposes, he was a free agent.
2) He could have easily said "You need to talk to my manager," and stopped the conversation there if he felt there would be an issue. He's a big boy, remember.
3) TSL could've made a counter offer. They either didn't, or didn't have the resources to.
Seriously, the ends justifies the means, and EG made a great pickup. If you want to get all up in arms about "the respectful way" at least realize that TSL had their opportunities here and obviously blew it.
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On July 21 2011 21:44 enecateReAP wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 21:42 Olinim wrote:On July 21 2011 21:38 enecateReAP wrote:
I think you're all forgetting the thing here...EVERYONE keeps saying "This is great for Puma, but..."
WHY BUT!?
Isn't what Puma wants the most important thing here? HE choose to do what HE thought was best, NOTHING ELSE MATTERS x.X;
This community is freaking awful.... Which is why he gets to make the decision...doesn't mean it might not be wrong or detrimental to his training. Your post is freaking awful. And who the hell are you to judge what will be best for Puma? You his mother or something? Get real.
I'm not sure where you think you are, but you are on a forum, typically where people express their opinions.
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This happens all the time in normal sports. Most players go where the money is and it's kind of cute a lot of people seem to think otherwise.
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As other ppl said it. Koreans have a huge level of morality even when it comes down to money. I am very curious why he took this decision, and i am looking suspicious at TSL here.
I remember 1-2 matches before the finals, PUMA was interviewed and he specifically said "I hope that this win will give TSL a good image". Those are not the words of someone who wasn leaving the team, specially considering he left the team practically at NASL, not when coming back.
Considering he decided right there, so fast, to leave TSL, i think something was very very very wrong with TSL. It was either paying him with bottles of water, or major conflicts inside TSL.
I blame TSL for this, to lose a player SO easy is their environment AND management's fault, defently not EG or Puma. True EG did play a little dirty, but it's because of TSL, Puma left so fast almost instant.
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Keep in mind everybody, this is e"sports". In a "sport" it is not uncommon for a good player to leave a good team and switch to another because he is offered a higher salary.
Interesting Fact: $1 is about 1060 won in Korea.
Also, it does mention in Milkies article:
[quote]
EG has been revealed to pay Puma a certain amount of salary, and to provide Puma with money for foreign tournaments.[quote]
I think he is leaving because Korea offers less tournament opportunities for SC2 besides the GSL & GSTL. Europe, America, & the rest of the world (other then Korea) have a LOT more opportunities for making money (MLG, IEM, DreamHack, NASL, & many other options if you check TLs SC2 tourney section). Not only are his trips for other tournaments being funded, this also "MIGHT" give him a way out of the Korean military. I said "might" because I do not know the details with that, but I have heard of Korean citizens coming to American to escape military service.
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I honestly don't understand why people are saying that Puma was a free agent. He went behind his team's back and made a deal WHILE HE WAS STILL ON TSL - I don't care how weak the contract was - you simply don't do this kind of stuff while you are on the team WITHOUT contacting the team managers or coaches.
I don't know the whole story, and we will see what EG has to say. However, from the information provided, there is a problem with the dealings. To those of you clinging to the "You don't know the whole story" line - Guess what? TSL knows the whole story and they are disgusted. That is bad REGARDLESS of how the dealings happened. You want both sides to be somewhat satisfied in a deal like this.
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On July 21 2011 21:46 firalol wrote:
This happens all the time in normal sports. Most players go where the money is and it's kind of cute a lot of people seem to think otherwise.
You cannot acquire a player who is on a team without talking to that team first in normal sports... A "free agent" would mean a player with no team, this was clearly not the case.
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On July 21 2011 21:43 Mordiford wrote:
This represents somewhat of a poor trend that is started to put me off quite a bit. A couple of foreign teams have been buying out Korean players in an effort to remain competitive as opposed to trying to build their own roster, this most recent pick-up through pretty unethical means is incredibly off-putting.
Wait, whoa, full stop. This is "unethical" how? What is EG's ethical duty to TSL? I'm not seeing it. This is a competition, why should EG have to to go the TSL manager hat-in-hand and politely ask to buy their top player instead of going to the player himself and letting the player choose which team fits him better?
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EPT
