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Page 26 and onwards I will issue at least two day bans to anyone who clearly has not read the original topic post and the explanations contained therein. He was barred access to the event days before the actual event took place and used some random diamond player his account to try and get in anyway. Leave the racial bias at the door while you are at it as well pretty please. | ||
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wats0n
United States509 Posts
Yeah guy, I know the dictionary definition of the word cheat. But you don't use it against a professional gamer unless for a specific DIFFERENT sense. It has a reserved use in this business. And it's bullshit to bring it out in this case when somebody isn't cheating. If people want to say, "He cheated people out of money," that's different than sheepishly throwing out, "He's a cheater." That shit isn't cool. | ||
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TBO
Germany1350 Posts
On July 18 2011 18:37 Novalisk wrote: You do have to let him in. T-gun is currently the hardest working Australian citizen, going so far as distancing himself from his home and family to get better at the game. If you don't let him play, it's kind of like telling the Australian community to "Work hard to improve, but not too hard". Yah not letting T-gun play would be like not having allowed Idra to play TSL2. I feel really sorry for Dox and it's good to see that you don't get demotivated by this incident. | ||
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TBO
Germany1350 Posts
On July 18 2011 18:38 wats0n wrote: Yeah guy, I know the dictionary definition of the word cheat. But you don't use it against a professional gamer unless for a specific DIFFERENT sense. It has a reserved use in this business. And it's bullshit to bring it out in this case when somebody isn't cheating. If people want to say, "He cheated people out of money," that's different than sheepishly throwing out, "He's a cheater." That shit isn't cool. you say that cheat has a specific context in "games/gaming" however what he did is not related to "games/gaming" but to a competition. He cheated outside the game so why would you need to use the gaming definition of cheat. | ||
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wats0n
United States509 Posts
On July 18 2011 18:39 TBO wrote: you say that cheat has a specific context in "games/gaming" however what he did is not related to "games/gaming" but to a competition. He cheated outside the game so why would you need to use the gaming definition of cheat. He's a professional gamer. You call him a "cheater" for a very specific reason. Don't be intentionally obtuse. Everyone posting on TL should know this (at least I hope so). | ||
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HitMonkie
Australia518 Posts
On July 18 2011 18:29 BackSideAttack wrote: You don't need to invite T-gun to show people that hard work pays off. Especially considering that T-gun's success is not attributed to practice on the Sea server. Matter of fact it would be detrimental to the scene because it exposes people to the Sea server's lack of competitiveness. I agree that in the beginning, the intent was to boost the Sea server scene. Your trying to inject some funds and motivation to accelerate the growth of the server's players. All of the criteria for entry lead me to believe this (Sea account, and native citizenship). However, it was the lack of foresight that led to their decision to become discriminatory. They most likely did not anticipate someone of T-gun's caliber participating. But, because he met all of the criteria set in motion, they "technically" have to let him through. If T-gun wins the money, this in no way helps the scene grow. He's someone who is already set. If you really wanted the scene to grow you would cater to the unknowns, not someone who has already established themselves beyond the skill of the server. I guess major probably shouldn't have smurfed. That was his bad. But the tournament is also in the wrong for incriminating him further by offering a stopgap excuse for why he isn't allowed to play and what they are trying to do. If your going to condemn him for breaking the rules, then you have every right to do so. But you need to admit your lack of foresight caused this scenario in the first place. What? So they should of had the "Foresight" to know that major was gonna cheat to play in the tournament? And Tgun inclusion in no way harms to level of play in the Tourney, there are players in SEA that are just as skilled as Tgun if not better. and most of them are not "SET" as you put it, like he is. Please don't post ignorant statements on what you think the level SEA is. There are good players on the server, just without the funds to go fulltime Progamers. | ||
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Medrea
10003 Posts
On July 18 2011 18:40 wats0n wrote: He's a professional gamer. You call him a "cheater" for a very specific reason. Don't be intentionally obtuse. Everyone posting on TL should know this (at least I hope so). He quite literally cheated. No abstract form of the word is being employed here. | ||
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Liquid`Nazgul
22427 Posts
On April 10 2011 15:35 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: hope you're right about this, at which point do teams start to care about past behavior vs skill? On July 18 2011 18:40 wats0n wrote: He's a professional gamer. You call him a "cheater" for a very specific reason. Don't be intentionally obtuse. Everyone posting on TL should know this (at least I hope so). I genuinely have no idea what you are arguing about. This is cheating at its finest. | ||
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shadymmj
1906 Posts
If I were as good as him, could possibly smurf, get away with it and split the cash, then why the hell not? | ||
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Skarmory
112 Posts
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BackSideAttack
1103 Posts
On July 18 2011 18:17 Dox wrote: Just for the record, tgun didn't participate. He was playing soccer with oGs and a few other pro Korean teams. Secondly, he's an Australian citizen, just like I said in my chat with MajOr. Just because he leaves the country for a few weeks, you suggest that we should be turning our backs on him? Who said I was trying to avoid competition? You seem to have a very distorted sense of comprehension. to quote you exactly "This event was specifically designed to encourage the SEA community to step up their game and embrace the global success of StarCraft 2 competitive eSports. Consider it an investment on my part. I inject money into the community, and the community produces higher quality gamers. Eventually these players will build the skills and confidence they need to represent SEA on the world stage (see: mOOnGLaDe). " How does injecting money into someone like T-gun help the scene grow? It doesn't. He is already set. He has a team, an income, skilled practice partners, and a team house. His primary source of practice no longer comes from the Sea server. If you really wanted the scene to grow you would be injecting those funds to people who weren't afforded to opportunity to join a team and practice in Korea. Giving him the 1st place winnings won't make the scene any better, whereas giving an unknown player the winnings could help you produce another T-gun. I don't disagree with your intent, but as i previously stated in the rebuttal for someone else, it was your lack of foresight that made this decision discriminatory. You didn't think it through, therefore you have a glaring hole in the logic of your reasoning for hosting the tournament. It's okay to host the server for only a specific group of people. But if your intent is to build the scene, then you shouldn't allow people like T-gun to play. | ||
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wats0n
United States509 Posts
On July 18 2011 18:42 Medrea wrote: He quite literally cheated. No abstract form of the word is being employed here. Hey guy, did you even read all the posts? I just said dictionary definition isn't gospel here. "Cheater" has a specific implication and people are intentionally using it here to shit on the guy's name. I get that guys want to punish him but that's not cool to use the word "cheater." I came into the last page of this thread and read like half a dozen posts saying that he cheated in a tournament and I legitimately thought he was hacking. You don't put that stigma on people and let it spread beyond this thread unless it's true. It's pretty damn easy to say that he "smurfed." Learn the correct terminology people. It's simple. | ||
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EnderCraft
United States1746 Posts
Way to snub djWheat on kings of tin major.. Lost a lot of respect for him when he decided to just ladder instead of showing up to a show where people could have actually gotten to know him a little bit better. I kind of like Major's determination, but you really need to know whats appropriate and what is inappropriate. Cheating just to get into a SEA tournament was dumb... It's not like BW where you have to wait for another millennium to pass for the next tournament. Now progamers have a wide selection of smaller tourneys to choose from. Why did he have to stop at nothing to play on this one? : / | ||
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Novalisk
Israel1818 Posts
On July 18 2011 18:44 shadymmj wrote: People here are like a lynch mob brandishing their pitchforks of good morality. Sure, the guy is a douche, we all know that, but it's a free country. I don't take anything else too seriously other than the game. Starcraft 2 is a game, and there are dicks and griefers in every game. Live with it. No one is obligated to help a scene grow. If I were as good as him, could possibly smurf, get away with it and split the cash, then why the hell not? Because you risk losing more cash if your team kicks you out and tournaments ban you. | ||
pachi
Melbourne5338 Posts
On July 18 2011 18:44 shadymmj wrote: People here are like a lynch mob brandishing their pitchforks of good morality. Sure, the guy is a douche, we all know that, but it's a free country. I don't take anything else too seriously other than the game. Starcraft 2 is a game, and there are dicks and griefers in every game. Live with it. No one is obligated to help a scene grow. If I were as good as him, could possibly smurf, get away with it and split the cash, then why the hell not? All the more reason to create consequences such as public awareness/shaming to discourage bad behaviour and unprofessionalism in addition to making organisations think twice about associating with it. On July 18 2011 18:47 wats0n wrote: Hey guy, did you even read all the posts? I just said dictionary definition isn't gospel here. "Cheater" has a specific implication and people are intentionally using it here to shit on the guy's name. I get that guys want to punish him but that's not cool to use the word "cheater." I came into the last page of this thread and read like half a dozen posts saying that he cheated in a tournament and I legitimately thought he was hacking. You don't put that stigma on people and let it spread beyond this thread unless it's true. It's pretty damn easy to say that he "smurfed." Learn the correct terminology people. It's simple. Could you please explain your specialist definition of 'cheating'? I am under the impression that cheating means breaking rules in general use and professional gaming. I would consider people that hacked, abused ladders, watched streams, played under false pretense as breaking rules or 'cheating' | ||
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Medrea
10003 Posts
On July 18 2011 18:47 wats0n wrote: Hey guy, did you even read all the posts? I just said dictionary definition isn't gospel here. "Cheater" has a specific implication and people are intentionally using it here to shit on the guy's name. I get that guys want to punish him but that's not cool to use the word "cheater." I came into the last page of this thread and read like half a dozen posts saying that he cheated in a tournament and I legitimately thought he was hacking. You don't put that stigma on people and let it spread beyond this thread unless it's true. It's pretty damn easy to say that he "smurfed." Learn the correct terminology people. It's simple. I have no idea what you are arguing about. Playing in a league you were told "No" is cheating. | ||
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JiYan
United States3668 Posts
On July 18 2011 18:47 wats0n wrote: Hey guy, did you even read all the posts? I just said dictionary definition isn't gospel here. "Cheater" has a specific implication and people are intentionally using it here to shit on the guy's name. I get that guys want to punish him but that's not cool to use the word "cheater." I came into the last page of this thread and read like half a dozen posts saying that he cheated in a tournament and I legitimately thought he was hacking. You don't put that stigma on people and let it spread beyond this thread unless it's true. when half a dozen people are saying something, you should maybe ask yourself if your predispositions were perhaps wrong? when the owner of team liquid corrects you regarding gaming "jargon", maybe you shouldnt be so quick to beat the dead horse thats already dead. | ||
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Liquid`Nazgul
22427 Posts
On July 18 2011 18:47 wats0n wrote: Hey guy, did you even read all the posts? I just said dictionary definition isn't gospel here. "Cheater" has a specific implication and people are intentionally using it here to shit on the guy's name. I get that guys want to punish him but that's not cool to use the word "cheater." I came into the last page of this thread and read like half a dozen posts saying that he cheated in a tournament and I legitimately thought he was hacking. You don't put that stigma on people and let it spread beyond this thread unless it's true. It's pretty damn easy to say that he "smurfed." Learn the correct terminology people. It's simple. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=108352 These guys did not maphack, but they did cheat. It seems that you just have an issue with mistaking the word cheating with maphacking. That's your problem stop arguing about it. Smurfing implies something that is totally fine under plenty of conditions. There is nothing inherently wrong with smurfing, but there is something wrong with smurfing in a tournament where you are geographically not allowed to play. That is when smurfing becomes cheating. Anyway, let it go. | ||
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Bobble
Australia1493 Posts
On July 18 2011 18:47 wats0n wrote: Hey guy, did you even read all the posts? I just said dictionary definition isn't gospel here. "Cheater" has a specific implication and people are intentionally using it here to shit on the guy's name. I get that guys want to punish him but that's not cool to use the word "cheater." I came into the last page of this thread and read like half a dozen posts saying that he cheated in a tournament and I legitimately thought he was hacking. You don't put that stigma on people and let it spread beyond this thread unless it's true. It's pretty damn easy to say that he "smurfed." Learn the correct terminology people. It's simple. The title clearly states that he was smurfing. How would you be confused about that? | ||
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wats0n
United States509 Posts
On July 18 2011 18:50 Medrea wrote: I have no idea what you are arguing about. Playing in a league you were told "No" is cheating. You cheated your country's education system so you're a cheater as well. The sc2 SEA guys have already admitted they're just trying to publicly shame him. I'll bow out of this dog and pony show before I get myself in trouble. Continue with the lynching. User was warned for this post | ||
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ReachTheSky
United States3294 Posts
On July 18 2011 18:43 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=8719722 I genuinely have no idea what you are arguing about. This is cheating at its finest. Shouldn't he be punished harshly? | ||
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