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Page 26 and onwards I will issue at least two day bans to anyone who clearly has not read the original topic post and the explanations contained therein. He was barred access to the event days before the actual event took place and used some random diamond player his account to try and get in anyway.
Leave the racial bias at the door while you are at it as well pretty please. |
On July 18 2011 18:44 shadymmj wrote:
If I were as good as him, could possibly smurf, get away with it and split the cash, then why the hell not?
Because it's fraud and essentially theft? Right from wrong and all that, etc, etc.
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I don't understand Artosis's decision to pick up Major in the first place. I mean why BM Destiny when Majors extremely unprofessional and give bad rep for a team. Destiny may be explicit sometimes but puts thought behind the words he say. Not really on topic...just thought I would mention it lol.
But overall it seems major hasn't really changed and is still just an irresponsible child.
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didn't he enter WCG as a smurf some years ago as well?
not the first time he's done this... he doesn't deserve any more chances. he's a big kiddy.
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On July 18 2011 19:06 mTw|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 18:56 BackSideAttack wrote:On July 18 2011 18:40 HitMonkie wrote:On July 18 2011 18:29 BackSideAttack wrote:On July 18 2011 18:09 Novalisk wrote:On July 18 2011 18:06 BackSideAttack wrote:
If the true purpose of this tournament was to grow the Sea Server scene...then why would you allow T-gun, who's going through Koreans training, to play. I understand that your trying to grow the scene, but inviting a sea player with Korean training is no diff than allowing major to play. In the end your exposing the scene to competition that you were trying to avoid in the first place. It's also important to show that working hard to improve your play as an SEA player pays off. You don't need to invite T-gun to show people that hard work pays off. Especially considering that T-gun's success is not attributed to practice on the Sea server. Matter of fact it would be detrimental to the scene because it exposes people to the Sea server's lack of competitiveness. I agree that in the beginning, the intent was to boost the Sea server scene. Your trying to inject some funds and motivation to accelerate the growth of the server's players. All of the criteria for entry lead me to believe this (Sea account, and native citizenship). However, it was the lack of foresight that led to their decision to become discriminatory. They most likely did not anticipate someone of T-gun's caliber participating. But, because he met all of the criteria set in motion, they "technically" have to let him through. If T-gun wins the money, this in no way helps the scene grow. He's someone who is already set. If you really wanted the scene to grow you would cater to the unknowns, not someone who has already established themselves beyond the skill of the server. I guess major probably shouldn't have smurfed. That was his bad. But the tournament is also in the wrong for incriminating him further by offering a stopgap excuse for why he isn't allowed to play and what they are trying to do. If your going to condemn him for breaking the rules, then you have every right to do so. But you need to admit your lack of foresight caused this scenario in the first place. What? So they should of had the "Foresight" to know that major was gonna cheat to play in the tournament? And Tgun inclusion in no way harms to level of play in the Tourney, there are players in SEA that are just as skilled as Tgun if not better. and most of them are not "SET" as you put it, like he is. Please don't post ignorant statements on what you think the level SEA is. There are good players on the server, just without the funds to go fulltime Progamers. K let me give you another example. With the stated criteria they would've had to admit Moonglade as well, if he wanted to play. Moonglade is probably the best player to come out of the Sea server, and he too is set just like T-gun. Having someone like Moonglade take the money does nothing to benefit the server. The only way to grow the scene is to inject the money into the hidden gems, helping them become financially stable enough to become a progamer. Giving the prize money to someone like Moonglade, who is already financially stable would not help the scene. Dox should've had the foresight to make more restricting criteria, so that players like T-gun and Moonglade couldn't have joined if they wanted to. If he wanted to host a tournament with just sea players then thats absolutely fine. But to say that the point was to inject funds in order to better the server, then allowing people like t-gun and moonglade to play would be counterproductive. What you are saying makes no sense. Where is the motivation to practice and be as good as T-Gun or mOOnglaDe when you then may not participate in those tournaments to make some money? If they are the best on the SEA server thats how it is and they will win... Money is motivation for others to train to become AS good so they can actually compete for the money next time.
As the bloke who got second in this tournament to Glade, again (sigh), I can assure you that naruto is right fucking bang on with this.
There'll be a next time Andy.
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On July 18 2011 18:56 BackSideAttack wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 18:40 HitMonkie wrote:On July 18 2011 18:29 BackSideAttack wrote:On July 18 2011 18:09 Novalisk wrote:On July 18 2011 18:06 BackSideAttack wrote:
If the true purpose of this tournament was to grow the Sea Server scene...then why would you allow T-gun, who's going through Koreans training, to play. I understand that your trying to grow the scene, but inviting a sea player with Korean training is no diff than allowing major to play. In the end your exposing the scene to competition that you were trying to avoid in the first place. It's also important to show that working hard to improve your play as an SEA player pays off. You don't need to invite T-gun to show people that hard work pays off. Especially considering that T-gun's success is not attributed to practice on the Sea server. Matter of fact it would be detrimental to the scene because it exposes people to the Sea server's lack of competitiveness. I agree that in the beginning, the intent was to boost the Sea server scene. Your trying to inject some funds and motivation to accelerate the growth of the server's players. All of the criteria for entry lead me to believe this (Sea account, and native citizenship). However, it was the lack of foresight that led to their decision to become discriminatory. They most likely did not anticipate someone of T-gun's caliber participating. But, because he met all of the criteria set in motion, they "technically" have to let him through. If T-gun wins the money, this in no way helps the scene grow. He's someone who is already set. If you really wanted the scene to grow you would cater to the unknowns, not someone who has already established themselves beyond the skill of the server. I guess major probably shouldn't have smurfed. That was his bad. But the tournament is also in the wrong for incriminating him further by offering a stopgap excuse for why he isn't allowed to play and what they are trying to do. If your going to condemn him for breaking the rules, then you have every right to do so. But you need to admit your lack of foresight caused this scenario in the first place. What? So they should of had the "Foresight" to know that major was gonna cheat to play in the tournament? And Tgun inclusion in no way harms to level of play in the Tourney, there are players in SEA that are just as skilled as Tgun if not better. and most of them are not "SET" as you put it, like he is. Please don't post ignorant statements on what you think the level SEA is. There are good players on the server, just without the funds to go fulltime Progamers. K let me give you another example. With the stated criteria they would've had to admit Moonglade as well, if he wanted to play. Moonglade is probably the best player to come out of the Sea server, and he too is set just like T-gun. Having someone like Moonglade take the money does nothing to benefit the server. The only way to grow the scene is to inject the money into the hidden gems, helping them become financially stable enough to become a progamer. Giving the prize money to someone like Moonglade, who is already financially stable would not help the scene. Dox should've had the foresight to make more restricting criteria, so that players like T-gun and Moonglade couldn't have joined if they wanted to. If he wanted to host a tournament with just sea players then thats absolutely fine. But to say that the point was to inject funds in order to better the server, then allowing people like t-gun and moonglade to play would be counterproductive.
There are players in SEA who can take games off t-gun and moonglade.
even in this tournament itself, aiguz was just 1 map from taking the 1st place from moonglade in the extended series.
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Topic is more fun to read than watching the Code A Finals.
Bottom line to those few talking about keeping other regions out and supporting Major: he broke the rules. It doesn't matter if you disagree with the practice of keeping other regions out. While that's a subjective matter, breaking the rules is objectively an unacceptable matter.
If you put up money for a tournament, you're allowed to make whatever rules you want. It doesn't matter if you disagree with the rules or practice of keeping other regions out, when there's money on the line, you follow them. There is absolutely no reason anyone should be supporting Major in this.
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He gave a keyboard to Losira @ MLG. I guess that good deed is now erased  .
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On July 18 2011 19:06 mTw|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 18:56 BackSideAttack wrote:On July 18 2011 18:40 HitMonkie wrote:On July 18 2011 18:29 BackSideAttack wrote:On July 18 2011 18:09 Novalisk wrote:On July 18 2011 18:06 BackSideAttack wrote:
If the true purpose of this tournament was to grow the Sea Server scene...then why would you allow T-gun, who's going through Koreans training, to play. I understand that your trying to grow the scene, but inviting a sea player with Korean training is no diff than allowing major to play. In the end your exposing the scene to competition that you were trying to avoid in the first place. It's also important to show that working hard to improve your play as an SEA player pays off. You don't need to invite T-gun to show people that hard work pays off. Especially considering that T-gun's success is not attributed to practice on the Sea server. Matter of fact it would be detrimental to the scene because it exposes people to the Sea server's lack of competitiveness. I agree that in the beginning, the intent was to boost the Sea server scene. Your trying to inject some funds and motivation to accelerate the growth of the server's players. All of the criteria for entry lead me to believe this (Sea account, and native citizenship). However, it was the lack of foresight that led to their decision to become discriminatory. They most likely did not anticipate someone of T-gun's caliber participating. But, because he met all of the criteria set in motion, they "technically" have to let him through. If T-gun wins the money, this in no way helps the scene grow. He's someone who is already set. If you really wanted the scene to grow you would cater to the unknowns, not someone who has already established themselves beyond the skill of the server. I guess major probably shouldn't have smurfed. That was his bad. But the tournament is also in the wrong for incriminating him further by offering a stopgap excuse for why he isn't allowed to play and what they are trying to do. If your going to condemn him for breaking the rules, then you have every right to do so. But you need to admit your lack of foresight caused this scenario in the first place. What? So they should of had the "Foresight" to know that major was gonna cheat to play in the tournament? And Tgun inclusion in no way harms to level of play in the Tourney, there are players in SEA that are just as skilled as Tgun if not better. and most of them are not "SET" as you put it, like he is. Please don't post ignorant statements on what you think the level SEA is. There are good players on the server, just without the funds to go fulltime Progamers. K let me give you another example. With the stated criteria they would've had to admit Moonglade as well, if he wanted to play. Moonglade is probably the best player to come out of the Sea server, and he too is set just like T-gun. Having someone like Moonglade take the money does nothing to benefit the server. The only way to grow the scene is to inject the money into the hidden gems, helping them become financially stable enough to become a progamer. Giving the prize money to someone like Moonglade, who is already financially stable would not help the scene. Dox should've had the foresight to make more restricting criteria, so that players like T-gun and Moonglade couldn't have joined if they wanted to. If he wanted to host a tournament with just sea players then thats absolutely fine. But to say that the point was to inject funds in order to better the server, then allowing people like t-gun and moonglade to play would be counterproductive. What you are saying makes no sense. Where is the motivation to practice and be as good as T-Gun or mOOnglaDe when you then may not participate in those tournaments to make some money? If they are the best on the SEA server thats how it is and they will win... Money is motivation for others to train to become AS good so they can actually compete for the money next time.
The motivation lies in performing well in small tournaments, so that a major pro gaming team may notice you. Afterwards you start making a salary, and be offered an opportunity to play in more lucrative, invite only tournaments. The point of these small tournament is to offer unknown players the opportunity to win a little bit of money to support themselves, so that they can continue to practice and eventually become sponsored.
I guarantee you being good enough to win these small tournaments is no longer significant enough to motivate players such as T-gun and Moonglade to get better. Otherwise as Dox said, T-gun would've chose to participate in the tourney instead of playing soccer with friends.
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On July 18 2011 19:13 Vashx wrote:
I don't understand Artosis's decision to pick up Major in the first place. I mean why BM Destiny when Majors extremely unprofessional and give bad rep for a team. Destiny may be explicit sometimes but puts thought behind the words he say. Not really on topic...just thought I would mention it lol.
But overall it seems major hasn't really changed and is still just an irresponsible child.
If you want to promote your team for sponsors would you rather have someone that acts dirty or someone that pulls out his politically incorrect expletives on a whim?
It's kind of like wrestling, you had the "villain" but you never had the guy that swears a lot.
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On July 18 2011 19:17 Koshi wrote:He gave a keyboard to Losira @ MLG. I guess that good deed is now erased .
maybe it was borrowed, i remember reading losira had to buy a new one.
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On July 18 2011 19:16 iaguz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 19:06 mTw|NarutO wrote:On July 18 2011 18:56 BackSideAttack wrote:On July 18 2011 18:40 HitMonkie wrote:On July 18 2011 18:29 BackSideAttack wrote:On July 18 2011 18:09 Novalisk wrote:On July 18 2011 18:06 BackSideAttack wrote:
If the true purpose of this tournament was to grow the Sea Server scene...then why would you allow T-gun, who's going through Koreans training, to play. I understand that your trying to grow the scene, but inviting a sea player with Korean training is no diff than allowing major to play. In the end your exposing the scene to competition that you were trying to avoid in the first place. It's also important to show that working hard to improve your play as an SEA player pays off. You don't need to invite T-gun to show people that hard work pays off. Especially considering that T-gun's success is not attributed to practice on the Sea server. Matter of fact it would be detrimental to the scene because it exposes people to the Sea server's lack of competitiveness. I agree that in the beginning, the intent was to boost the Sea server scene. Your trying to inject some funds and motivation to accelerate the growth of the server's players. All of the criteria for entry lead me to believe this (Sea account, and native citizenship). However, it was the lack of foresight that led to their decision to become discriminatory. They most likely did not anticipate someone of T-gun's caliber participating. But, because he met all of the criteria set in motion, they "technically" have to let him through. If T-gun wins the money, this in no way helps the scene grow. He's someone who is already set. If you really wanted the scene to grow you would cater to the unknowns, not someone who has already established themselves beyond the skill of the server. I guess major probably shouldn't have smurfed. That was his bad. But the tournament is also in the wrong for incriminating him further by offering a stopgap excuse for why he isn't allowed to play and what they are trying to do. If your going to condemn him for breaking the rules, then you have every right to do so. But you need to admit your lack of foresight caused this scenario in the first place. What? So they should of had the "Foresight" to know that major was gonna cheat to play in the tournament? And Tgun inclusion in no way harms to level of play in the Tourney, there are players in SEA that are just as skilled as Tgun if not better. and most of them are not "SET" as you put it, like he is. Please don't post ignorant statements on what you think the level SEA is. There are good players on the server, just without the funds to go fulltime Progamers. K let me give you another example. With the stated criteria they would've had to admit Moonglade as well, if he wanted to play. Moonglade is probably the best player to come out of the Sea server, and he too is set just like T-gun. Having someone like Moonglade take the money does nothing to benefit the server. The only way to grow the scene is to inject the money into the hidden gems, helping them become financially stable enough to become a progamer. Giving the prize money to someone like Moonglade, who is already financially stable would not help the scene. Dox should've had the foresight to make more restricting criteria, so that players like T-gun and Moonglade couldn't have joined if they wanted to. If he wanted to host a tournament with just sea players then thats absolutely fine. But to say that the point was to inject funds in order to better the server, then allowing people like t-gun and moonglade to play would be counterproductive. What you are saying makes no sense. Where is the motivation to practice and be as good as T-Gun or mOOnglaDe when you then may not participate in those tournaments to make some money? If they are the best on the SEA server thats how it is and they will win... Money is motivation for others to train to become AS good so they can actually compete for the money next time. As the bloke who got second in this tournament to Glade, again (sigh), I can assure you that naruto is right fucking bang on with this. There'll be a next time Andy.
This is right on.
Even though Moonglade won the money, another player got close enough to taste it and wants more. Motivation. And those other players who might have pulled out a win or two against some of the semi-finalists might also think with more practice that they might be the ones in the semi-finals next time instead of the people that beat them. Motivation.
It's a trickle down affect because all those players will try that much harder next time to get that much further even if Moonglade won the money because he was the best. It's kind of like ladder. You start gaining ranks.... And you just wanna keep going until eventually your in Grandmaster trying to gain points to be #1. Always looking for how to improve to get there. Motivation.
I don't think people realize that's how you grow great players. By giving them motivation and giving them the chance to play against high level competition so that they can get a whiff of what they can become.
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On July 18 2011 19:20 JiYan wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 19:17 Koshi wrote:He gave a keyboard to Losira @ MLG. I guess that good deed is now erased . maybe it was borrowed, i remember reading losira had to buy a new one.
Losira's stuff never works anyway. He's notorious for his stuff breaking down.
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It's a shame major is such a dick because he's a great player.
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Unfortunate. I thought he was through with his poor behavior. Hopefully he'll grow up someday, as he really is an excellent player.
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why is ROOT in the thread title? i know root is essentially dead at this point, but i'm not sure they would want their name associated with a cheater, when they booted him months before the return to cheating ways.
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On July 18 2011 19:07 Telcontar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 18:59 shadymmj wrote:On July 18 2011 18:57 Bombmk wrote:On July 18 2011 18:44 shadymmj wrote:
People here are like a lynch mob brandishing their pitchforks of good morality. Sure, the guy is a douche, we all know that, but it's a free country. I don't take anything else too seriously other than the game. Starcraft 2 is a game, and there are dicks and griefers in every game. Live with it. No one is obligated to help a scene grow.
If I were as good as him, could possibly smurf, get away with it and split the cash, then why the hell not? Yeah. Just like in life, you know. We have murderers, rapists and thieves in life. Live with it. No one is obligated to not harm their fellow citizens. Right? Thank god for the sense of community in the majority of people. The pitchforks are warranted in this case. Seems like someone is having a very difficult time distinguishing between an internet game and real life laws. I think he's talking more about the morality and principals rather than the laws that uphold them.
Precisely. Should be quite evident to anyone who is not trying to argue a senseless point. Can't see I did not see that response coming, but assuming such a level of discourse is pointless.
The argument "Thats life. Accept it." seems to be more and more prevalent. As soon as it is something internet related you are apparently supposed to accept bad behavior. Some sort of twisted equivalence between whats possible and whats right.
Theres a huge difference between accepting that actions do take place and accepting the actions.
The "its just a videogame" is moronic at best. Its peoples time, and money in this case, that is on the line.
And, if anything, cheating at games is worse than cheating at life. The latter can at least be understood in terms of motivations. That far I can understand Major. There was money to be had. But that does not justify his behaviour, regardless.
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On July 18 2011 19:27 shizna wrote:
why is ROOT in the thread title? i know root is essentially dead at this point, but i'm not sure they would want their name associated with a cheater, when they booted him months before the return to cheating ways.
Does anyone think there will be a punishment at all? -_-
I'm too jaded after the initial response to think that anything further will happen.
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After reading the OP I have to say; this is pretty bad. This is pretty Major. He needs to change his attitude, or lose all his fans.
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On July 18 2011 19:06 shadymmj wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 19:01 ke_ivan wrote:On July 18 2011 18:44 shadymmj wrote:
People here are like a lynch mob brandishing their pitchforks of good morality. Sure, the guy is a douche, we all know that, but it's a free country. I don't take anything else too seriously other than the game. Starcraft 2 is a game, and there are dicks and griefers in every game. Live with it. No one is obligated to help a scene grow.
If I were as good as him, could possibly smurf, get away with it and split the cash, then why the hell not? Dood, even from a completely ethic-less point of view... ...he got caught through some intellectually-challenged actions. If I were to be incredibly ethically-indisposed myself, I can forgive something like cheating. But I wouldn't be able to forgive something like getting caught. So you're applauding him for being stupid? huh? Either way, ethically or otherwise, his actions were still dumb. He deserves to get a spanking from coach 'tosis. Time to improve your reading comprehension. Show me where I insinuated that what he did should be applauded. I just said that what he did could be justified if he didn't give two fucks about what people think of him as a player. If someone doesn't care about manner and all that nonsense, then grant him his personal space. I'm not asking you to respect him, but I'm asking you not to lynch him.
"If I were as good as him, could possibly smurf, get away with it and split the cash, then why the hell not?"
You set that as a possibility. If it's possible, and you condone it, it isn't a far stretch to say that you applaud it. You set a conditional statement "If I were as good as him", followed by the actions, followed by an affirmation in the form of a question - "then why the hell not?" So not only do you say that it is justifiable to do something like that, you say that if you were in the same position you'd do the same. If that isn't applause, I don't know what is. After all imitation is the greatest form of flattery.
Which is fine. Clearly justifiable. Except he got caught. So why would you want to emulate that?
Secondly, you said, "If someone doesn't care about manner and all that nonsense, then grant him his personal space."
a) He is a pro-gamer, which means everything he does is associated with his sponsor. That makes things he does professionally (such as joining tournaments) part of the professional/public realm. Which means everybody can whip him and hold pitchforks up as they so please.
b) He has the right to not give a shit; the community also has the right to lynch him.
c) Legally, you don't just let someone who's attempted to steal from you walk away scott free do you? Hence, there is the term "attempted". Lesser sentence, but still deserved. (Unless you're in the US of A, of course. Sorry US folks, it's true.)
Anyway, I'm not on some moral high horse here. I'm saying that even if we lived in an amoral society, major deserves every bit of flak, because he got caught. Comprehensive enough for you?
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On July 18 2011 18:45 Skarmory wrote:
Hah, Nazgul foretold this event! I really do want to like Major, but he makes it so hard with his actions.
Then why do you want to like him? Late beta I thought he was a pretty neat player (when he was still called Terran) but his actions speak for themselves. He's not the kind of player I would support, this is the sort of action that would make him lose sponsors in almost any other sport, and I don't see why it shouldn't here. I'd rather the opportunities that sponsorship affords him go to someone who would represent the scene better.
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