On July 08 2011 00:34 RipxDark wrote: Everyone knows that the NFL is a joke when it comes to fining people. Even they can a flag or a penalty for spiking the baller or celebrating with more than just yourself. MMA should be fined for doing a kamehameha after winning or fine MC for doing the throat slit. We don't want to go down that path
WHy does everyone only compare NFL, the ONLY league where this does not work as well.
Because you brought it up to prove your point, and ignored the fact that in virtually every major professional team league (including the NFL) players are constantly swearing, it's just that the people behind the cameras know this and make an active effort (i.e., not showing the faces of angry players) to make sure it's not broadcast on air?
I honestly do not understand what this proves!? There is no point in proving THAT IT HAPPENS because obviously it does.
But how on earth is this possibly a good thing for this players reputation, or any sponsors associated with him? It quite simply isn't. So yes - swearing happens in other sports but it is certainly not a positive thing
The onus is on you to prove that it's detrimental.
I used to be of the opinion that unprofessional attitudes such as Idra's were not a good thing. However, I can't help but look at how things actually turn out. Sure, it is true that if all pro-gamers acted like Idra, most would do it really distastefully and it would just be a big pile of shit.
However, that is simply not how things have turned out. We have a lot of very professionally done events. These events have massive turn outs (MLG, Dreamhack, etc). There are a lot of really mannered and nice players, and there are also a few who are not so much.
We can theorize "if this" "if that" all we want, but what we have right now is very good. There is a lot of interest and excitement brought to the games from these personalities, and there are not too many of them. I agree that if there were too many, it would be shitty. But there aren't. We are doing just fine, and the professional SC2 scene is continuing to grow.
It's funny hearing forum-goers saying "Huk shouldn't come to the events" or "These Pros shouldn't participate b/c of BM". LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL It's like the critics of Kobe Bryant saying he shouldn't play basketball anymore because he talks smack.
You are trying to turn Starcraft 2 Into the NFL. One of the reasons I play and love Starcraft 2, Is because like other sports it takes hours on end of practice, but at its heart it is still a care free and laid back game to play. If you take all the fun out of Esports by throwing fines on everything that players do you will see a drastic decline in players. This Sport is still growing and needs people like Idra. The reason being if you don't draw an emotional reaction from people the community and its' players will stagnate and grow tired of the same old stuff. One thing Idra does extremely well is to draw emotions out of people, If its not, "Dude!! your never gonna guess what Idra did to bm this kid after his all in cheese!!!! , its 'Dude would that kid just shut up!!! I mean he QQ's about everything!!" For prof of this why don't you look at how many stream viewers he has on any given day. He is rarely if ever second to people who even stream on a daily basis like Destiny. For this I salute Idra, Thanks for keeping it fresh and real in the Sc2 Community man! Don't get me wrong, I want to see Esports become huge just like the rest of you, but lets not forget where we come from it should always be about the fun.
The best part about tournaments are the storylines (imo). Storylines most often originate in some sort of drama or BM, like for example HuK/IdrA at MLG etc, makes the tournament so much more interesting. If it were just a lot of pro players meeting up and being completely friendly and no conflict or "storyline" arises, the Tourney is generally less entertaining for the viewers, like it or not.
Would TSL3 be nearly as entertaining if it didn't have the epic storyline of Thorzain, a complete underdog, taking on every top player in NA/EU (+ MC & FD, think those were the only koreans he played?)? No.
Would the last game of IdrA vs CrunCher be nearly as interesting if it was just Cruncher sixgating and IdrA typing out gg? Not at all.
Although I do to some extent agree that saying fuck off etc in chat shouldn't go ENTIRELY unpunished, that's not how it goes in other sports at least. I don't follow football much, but I heard something about Wayne rooney saying something nasty to the camera and getting banned for a few months from some league (yay, i'm great at football T_T).
Oh well, at least BM is punished on the TL forums. IdrA, anyone?
On July 08 2011 06:06 turdburgler wrote: article is 1 sided and takes stuff out of context
pretty bm if you ask me
Yes. I think it should be banned. It cannot remain this way, it is bad for e-sports. People who write such articles should be fined. I believe bad manner of this kind should be punished harshly, it needs to be eradicated, like any other kind of BM. Oh wait..
On July 08 2011 07:31 TheGreenBee wrote: I want real emotions, real personalities, and real interview answers from pro players, not some $$ forced PC bullshit.
you don't get it, do you? real personalities that attract the crowds and bring tons of entairtenment to the scene are those of the koreans for example (watch MC). Idra's is real as well but at the same time highly immature - it's just something that is plain negative, it has no positive side to it at all. would you pay to watch a bunch of teenagers fighting over nothing due to their excessive hormons? I wouldn't. I would pay however to watch MC's entertaining ceremonies.
So what are we arguing about? I don't see a bunch of teenagers fighting over nothing due to their excessive hormones, where do we need to crack down?
One guy said, "Fuck off" and now the world is imploding? Just say, "Please don't do that." and if you have to keep warning him, then consider penalizing him. You say it's a plain negative, yet this guy has one of the largest fan followings in Starcraft 2 right now(granted, his fans can be pretty obnoxious).
So, give the players a warning, like they do now, and go on with your day, people aren't spewing cuss words and slurs all day long, it's not taking away from the competition or the sport.
who said the world is imploding? im just stating my opinion as everyone else does - that's the purpose of these forums. the fact though that idra has a large fan following makes me really really sad - especially when you think that the only reason for that is that he's carrying their zerg tears to exposure.
On July 08 2011 07:58 SafeAsCheese wrote:
Most people found MC's ceremony to be highly cheesy and dumb, if you read the LR thread.
you got to factor in some aspects if you want to be accurate. we all know unfortunately that nationalism sometimes gets in the way in that kind of situations (unjustified so, if you ask me). xenophobic and/or nationalistic people will support 'the american guy' whatever he does/says. also, as others have stated as well, the TL community is pretty zerg heavy so they will ofc protect they messiah when it was clear even to someone who doesn't know who these two people were that idra was severely outclassed because nerves got to him once more making him look like a 15yo. i am not saying he necessarily had to response to MC's taunt. if he found it cheesy or anything he could have just ignored him.
On July 08 2011 07:58 SafeAsCheese wrote:
You don't go up to a competitor in a public setting (idra was sitting in the crowd with his girlfriend) and taunt them, and expect "MANNERZ" back.
oh noes!! what a bad guy MC is!! I didn't expect MANNERS back, you dont get my point! I like BM, it's just that idra has no effing class - he's just plain negative and stupid. in my opinion that is.
On July 08 2011 08:01 zhurai wrote:
.... egging someone on when you know they'll have a "fiery" response is entertaining? sure sure. it's still called provoking.
also they are "friendly" with each other apparently from one of the fan club messages somewhere that I read (idra just goes along with it, MC just does all those ceremonies (although BM) for the fans.)
provoking adds to the drama. which is good. drama and personalities are good. but no one gets entertained by plain negativity. there has to a fun aspect to it imo.
On July 08 2011 08:08 walklightwhat wrote:
You'd pay to watch someone they just beat, stand in front of them waving their thumps up and down repeatedly and you'd call it entertaining? Watching MC do that stupid ceremony, desperately waiting for IdrA to look at him was one of the most juvenile and immature things I've ever seen.
well, the hundreds of people that where there live found it highly entairtening, why wouldn't I? On another note, no one cheered when idra gave him.. 'the finger' (wow didn't see that coming).
also: ''desperately waiting for idrA to look at him'' ... LOL what? could you be any more biased? do you play zerg.. by the way? or maybe you don't like koreans? just saying.. well thank god idra responded highly maturely and saved the whole show at the last minute.
On July 08 2011 08:11 TheGreenBee wrote:
MC's ceremonies are real? kidding me right? they remind me of WWE and how much of a joke those people are.
Again.. I want real emotions, personalities, and answers! Good or Bad! no staged crap like MC! or PC stuff.
I didn't say his ceremony was real, i said his personality is real. just as idra's personality is real. I just find that idra is severely outclassed when it comes to the entertainment value they bring to the audience - and also the level of professionalism with which they approach the (e)sport. I know, i know who gives a flying f**k for professionalism in e-sports. Once more, im talking about the case where we want e-sports to grow mainstream.
On July 08 2011 07:23 Doodsmack wrote: Your suggestion that teams and other organizations should go straight to court when they have a problem is kind of silly. We all know that lawsuits take a very long time to go to trial, are very expensive, and 9 times out of 10 result in settlement anyway. Not to mention the bad blood and scare tactics that they entail. You propose an extreme and highly impractical solution to the stated problem of the lack of professionalism in esports. I think you should be a little more reasonable.
He did not say that should be the absolute first response; he said that this must be an option and in the case of SK and Fnatic may be the only remaining solution. If the money involved in esports and particularly player contracts increase as they probably will then legal avenues must be considered in all cases. It's simply logical and there really is nothing to argue about. The OP is talking about taking a hard line against actions that bring the league, player or sponsors into disrepute. Court should be the very last FINAL option, but it should be an option.
Lets look at the two times the author mentioned lawsuits. First he claimed that there is only one good solution that will end the Delpan issue once and for all - a lawsuit. Does he know exactly what communication has occurred between the two teams, any negotiations they have attempted, etc? Does he know exactly how much money is involved and whether it's financially viable for the organization to go through with a lawsuit? No, because he's an outsider. He is jumping to a conclusion based on incomplete information, under the assumption that lawsuits are "harsh" measures that can end issues like this "once and for all." This suggests that a lawsuit shouldn't just be a last resort, it should be an option kept at the ready any time an issue might be hard to resolve.
Second he says that if a league like MLG fines a player and that player refuses and then a settlement can't be reached, "the situation should go to court immediately." Don't you think players would be wary of competing in MLG if the league started sueing them? Would the fine imposed by MLG be an amount of money worth absorbing the cost of a lawsuit for? Here again the author is making a bold statement without considering all the factors. Frankly it doesn't seem like he knows much about lawsuits. He is suggesting they should be used in situations where they actually would be impractical. He didn't just say that lawsuits "should be an option" as you claim. He suggested that they be actively used in order to make statements.
I think pro gamers should BM all they want on ladder, or in real life or whatever. However, I feel like SC2's audience might be diminished by people cussing each other out in-game during a tournament. It's only going to take a prudish parent seeing that one time to tell their kid they can't watch pro SC2 any more.
I think the poll points to the thought that a lot of people don't want SC2 turning into some police state where some quite enjoyable BM for the viewers causes the players to be fined or DQ'd. Stop trying to change part of what makes SC2 fun.
On July 08 2011 09:13 alexanderzero wrote: I think pro gamers should BM all they want on ladder, or in real life or whatever. However, I feel like SC2's audience might be diminished by people cussing each other out in-game during a tournament. It's only going to take a prudish parent seeing that one time to tell their kid they can't watch pro SC2 any more.
Kids shouldn't be watching, this game is rated T for teen.
I'm so sick and tired of everyone trying to make esports just like the NFL or any other sport out there. This is a video game ladies and gentlemen a video game. We will talk shit we will curse and we will have fun. End of story
On July 08 2011 09:13 alexanderzero wrote: I think pro gamers should BM all they want on ladder, or in real life or whatever. However, I feel like SC2's audience might be diminished by people cussing each other out in-game during a tournament. It's only going to take a prudish parent seeing that one time to tell their kid they can't watch pro SC2 any more.
Kids shouldn't be watching, this game is rated T for teen.
Well, someone could make an all christian league where you hold prayer groups for players and viewers before and/or after each match, I'm sure kids would LOVE that.
Naturally any type of BM or foul language would be outlawed in this league, failing to not follow the guidelines would a result in the player being quickly banished to hell, where he would burn for all eternity for his terrible crimes against humanity.
I think it's ok. I don't really enjoy watching it, but if other people do then it beings in more people, which in the long run is good. As long as it doesn't reach point the people where it's "I only watch SC2 to see what xxxx says", good games and good production should come first
When thats happening in Esports I'll care for regulation, until then cry me a river.
Pretty much.
But there are always fucking control freaks, fucking visionaries who know better than everyone else, those who want to establish fucking rules about everything because they believe it cannot go well without being under strict control - oh and so it happens that their fucking interprations and definitions are so much better than anyone`s else that they can provide the exact rules that shall be used to control what needs to be controled !
And they are so kind, so benevolent, so willing to contribute to the community, that they are even willing to provide these rules and explain how they should be applied, and also why !!! Awesome !!! Thank you ! Thank you ! Thank you ! Thank you !
Oh thank you ! You truly are our saviors ! You deserve recognition, oh the selfless ones, we owe you ! Without people like you we would all be doomed. If not people like you, bad manners would eventually destroy our souls and the community would rot in disrespectful, disastrously harmful expressions ! Now e-sports community at least has a chance !
Who knows, one day you might even lead us to a manifestation of a beautiful, perfectly mannered community where no one dares to ever say anything that might even appear disrespectful, where everyone, no exceptions, will always "gg" after every single game, where no one will ever badmouth about anyone, where everyone will respect the rules at all times, for they are, indeed, perfect and they serve us better than relying on any fallible intelligence, tact, situational discernment, tolerance, understanding or anything of that kind. Then you would be truly able to say that you brought happiness to everyone ! THANK YOU ! God bless you for using your miracolous insight, vision and understanding for the benefit of all !
EPT
