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On July 08 2011 11:42 MHT wrote:
This is our culture, this is who we are. If the GENERAL public don't like it then deal it with it. I want esports to grow aswell but not into this professional bullshit with fines for simple BM. Yes this does exist in regular sports but that is no reason for us to imitate it. One of the reason i like to watch esports is because the drama and emotions come through. I like the cheer for people not robots. This is just fucking censorship.
I completely agree with you!
I don't wanna see robots playing against each other,i wanna see humans play against each other with humans feelings.
And i don't wanna see players go to the courtyard just cause one guy was a little BM.That would be ridiculous.
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You really lost me when you brought up one of the funniest incidents SC2 has ever had.
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What you basically described is a slightly more leniant version of KeSpa.
E-Sports is more like MMA as opposed to the NFL, and the Marketing works well for MMA leagues like the UFC works well with fighters talking about how much they hate each other and badmouthing/swearing at each other.
HuK and Idra can be compared to the Rampage Jackson vs. Rashad Evans fight, they hate each other they swore at each other publicly and surprise surpise the amount of people that piled in to wach them was huge.
Comparing E-Sports leagues to highly refined and professional leagues like NFL/NHL etc. is just a bad comparison to make.
However your article is very well written and thought provoking
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I can't keep up with all the events and tournaments right now, but it's really nice sitting down, watching SC2 and there being more then just the game and polite appropriate people playing it. Drama is needed.
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I see you've added a poll since yesterday, I can't speak for the majority of the people responding in opposition but I think, for me, it's missing the point. A poll asking if I am pro BM isn't a definite yes for me, a lot of BM is lame and uncool, while some of it is harmless and funny. For me I'm not so much against or for BM as much as I'm for being able to choose for myself weather I like a player's attitude instead of having the league do it for me.
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it's a completly wrong poll. You should add something like:
-current BM is ok
and
-no BM allowed
or
- BM should be fined
and
-BM shouldn't be fined (naturally with boundrys like no racism, sexism, etc.)
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I think there is an important difference between traditional sport and e-sport when it comes to BM.
In e-sports there is no physical contact. In traditional sports especially team based sports like soccer or football the players have physical contact. It usually does not end with words. Having rules against taunting I think is not only for the benefit of the viewers but also to safeguard the players against each other.
So I absolutely think it is important to have rules to make sure that everybody keeps a level head. And having rules helps I think. Fights still happen often but I think it would be worse if everybody could just call each other a dick head.
With that being said I think harsh rules against light BM are not necessary. But what happens when players would take it to the extreme? Imagine instead of GG'ing a player would just spew personal insults at the other player for 1-2 minutes. What if that becomes standard and every match starts and ends with tirade of expletives? I wouldn't care for that to be honest. Still I think the vast majority of players is very well mannered.
About the first point regarding contracts, lawyers, etc. I agree 100%... I think it is important to make sure that contracts are honored, price money from tournaments are paid and so on.
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I believe that what this article is trying to convey is that when someone outside of eSports look at Starcraft 2 events and sees foreigners swearing at each other, they turn the page. Although it is nice for the fans, it is hard to have a long-term organization when the athletes on camera are not setting a good example to other people. Although people argue that Starcraft 2 is a game and it should only be about fun, when something gets publicized and millions of people are watching, think of the culture it sets for others. The same reason why TV shows or Music Artists do not last long, is because they are setting a bad example for the general public. Frankly, and in no offense to HuK, it was completely disrespectful for him to talk to Idra, and although Idra was right for saying what he did, he could have chosen better words and made his point a lot better. All people heard was profanity when really Idra was trying to say was "Don't talk, focus on the game." MLG clearly states that a player is not allowed to talk, and the article is right to point out that they need to enforce these rules. In MLG's defense, because Idra replied in such a way, both players were at fault. All in all although it does create good drama, but players need to be more tactful when disrespecting each other.
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This thread deals with the issue about BM in SC2 - I ignored the part about SK Gaming.
I am the dumbest guy here, and this might have been pointed out deep in the thread, but why not just enable the game's language filter on chat during the cast or disable chat other then greetings and submissions? I know it just avoids the issue, but as many people point out fines will not work in a confederacy that is e-Sports today.
On to the bigger issue of the lack of civility displayed by both players, that is part hollywooding for the cast and a lack of standards and enforcement by the tournament directors. To which enabling the language controls in the game can address 25%, but the other 75% is getting simple to follow and enforce rules, and having the players police themselves so the tournament directors only have to focus on the 1% extreme cases. I am not a fan of a lot of bureaucracy that affects play... (Take the 2011 Hockey Playoffs, all the rules changes really affected the play of the players going into the playoffs).
The players are the ones who have the most at stake right now and they need as much positive exposure to increase the tournament purses via sponsors. So creating a set of rules that they can easily follow and police themselves will probably result less drama and better compliance. When a player decides to take manners in his own hands and lets say take all his units and spell FU HUK, that is where the Tournament director comes in with the ban hammer.
So in summary, enable as many in-game controls as possible to control behavior or slip-ups during cast, have simple to follow rules (remember a lot of players speak different languages and might not understand complicated rules) and explain the consequences and why there are penalties (Just like regular sports), and then make the TD or refs the ultimate authority to handle situations that are clear violations of the stated rules and controls.
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On July 08 2011 00:32 coL.drewbie wrote:
players aren't allowed to chat in game, I got in trouble for chatting with HuK at MLG Dallas when we were playing a seeding match and bnet was lagging really hard.
What disciplinary actions were taken towards HuK and Idra at MLG? Or against yourself? Or in any other case?
If they don't enforce the rules in aired games then one must assume it's allowed.
Not that I disagree with it being allowed. If anything, immaturity should be punishshable since that's the major thing working against acceptance of esports, not some 'fuck off' comment.
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More professionalism is badly needed in the SC2 scene, but its the not player conduct that's the issue. Having suffered through the NASL finals, its pretty clear that event organizers really need to up their game, if e-sports is to be taken seriously. Player chatting is a frivolous issue. I don't see it turning off large numbers of potential fans (and can/does turn on some fans). Huge delays, one-eared sound, no updating about the major problems, constant pausing and re-starting, makes it come across as non-professional, but creates and unpleasant viewing experience. It turns off not only potential fans but existing fans, like myself.
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The problem is that eSports is still growing.
Every penny taken from a player and given to a lawyer, is a penny that could have been spent sending a player to a tournament, on a LAN event, on a prize pool, etc.
If eSports was a multi-billion dollar industry like the real world sports you talk about in your article, then I would entirely agree, however we need to be banding together to help the scene grow, rather than fighting each other over petty disagreements.
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I think if there are considerable amounts of money or long term commitments involved, it is probably good to have it all written down on paper. It protects you from getting screwed if the other party can't or won't stick to the agreement. I'm sure legally binding contracts are already made where it is natural.
And unless organizers have explicitly written anti-BM clauses in the rule set, they can't really fine players for speaking freely.
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They don't really HAVE to make any anti-bm rules or anything, it's just fine.
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A pro footblall player has never told someone to "fuck off" ?
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e-sports isnt nfl
even if organizations like the NFL fine their players for being bm it doesnt mean that it is correct and also if ESL would sue their players it really hurts them but a football star doesnt care about 10k or something
and i also think that bm kinda belongs to esports and makes it more fun
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On July 12 2011 00:16 skyride wrote:
The problem is that eSports is still growing..
wait thats it??!?!?
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What we need is more Kespa. Yeah..
All these posts and still no explanation as to why mildly amusing BM is bad.
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EPT
