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Destiny released from Complexity - Page 53

Forum Index > SC2 General
1316 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 51 52 53 54 55 66 Next
It is highly recommended that your read this entire thread - at least until page 10. If you make uninformed opinions that have been answered by the thread, col management or Destiny, you will be banned.
425kid
Profile Joined March 2011
416 Posts
June 25 2011 00:19 GMT
#1041
On June 25 2011 08:04 wxlancer wrote:
Destiny's got a great thing going, with a ton of viewers. He should be the HBO to everyone else's bland, politically correct primetime television.

He is. Thats why he gets more viewers, more money and interviews from forbes
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
June 25 2011 00:26 GMT
#1042
Just wait until we see where his sponsorships come in.
Acritter
Profile Joined August 2010
Syria7637 Posts
June 25 2011 00:34 GMT
#1043
I'm sure everything will turn out all right for all people involved. I wish that Destiny had been able to get a delay on signing that contract, though. It would have stopped all this confusion and silliness when it was really just a matter of Destiny not wanting to sign the contract but feeling forced to due to circumstances.
dont let your memes be dreams - konydora, motivational speaker | not actually living in syria
UFO
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
582 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-25 00:48:40
June 25 2011 00:48 GMT
#1044
On June 25 2011 07:16 zeek0us wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 25 2011 06:42 Aeo wrote:
You just made Destiny's own case—that context trumps diction. No one is advocating walking into a predominately black bar and slinging "nigger" around indiscriminately. That would be insensitive, and probably contribute to acute anemia in your future.

In the case of the n-word, and several others, the feeling conveyed by the word—connotation—has remained the same for as long as they've been in use. But in the gaming community in particular, the actual, literal denotation of the word has changed over time. It happens; it's called semantic shift and without it, there'd be no need for the field of etymology.

More to the point, insisting that the word remain both derogatory and pertain to the group of people it was meant to apply to only makes it more of an issue.


That's utter bullshit. In fact, you just made my point. The only difference in "context" between a bar and the internet is that in the former case, there are repercussions for using "nigger", whereas on the internet nothing happens.

And there's no change in the "actual, literal denotation" of the word. Just because kids on the internet spew it left and right doesn't signify a change in meaning. There's just nothing stopping them from using it.

There's no issue if people just don't use racial slurs with impunity. Once again I ask, if you're not trying to offend people of a particular group, what reason is there for using the word that exists to denigrate them? At best it's simply meaningless, like a white kid calling another white kid a "nigger". At worst, it's got the same intent as some southern hick 60 years ago calling a black dude a "nigger" before he hung him for whistling at a white woman . . .

It's not like the word has lost its meaning, nor has that meaning changed. It's just that people don't give a fuck about saying things that would be completely taboo in any context except one where they are completely anonymous and free from any consequences.



" The only difference in "context" between a bar and the internet is that in the former case, there are repercussions for using "nigger", whereas on the internet nothing happens. "

How on earth can you make such an utterly wrong, flawed statement a starting and central point of your argumentation ?

There are billions of possible differences depending on the context because meaning is always dependant on the context. There are hundreds of examples in which you can say the word "nigger" (or other inappropriate one) in a bar and not only get no repercussions for it but get a positive consequence. There is so much room for it being used in a funny or otherwise constructive way, without judgment or prejudice.


"Once again I ask, if you're not trying to offend people of a particular group, what reason is there for using the word that exists to denigrate them?"

Who said that the sole purpose in the existence of some word is to denigrate a particular group or people and that it absolutely can`t be used in any other way or have any other meaning ? There are just so many examples of how this word can be used in a very constructive and at the same time meaningful way.

At first my post was different because I see this opinion as a bullshit but reading what you said kinda makes me feel like you have a degree, probably a large degree, of intolerance towards words like "nigger" and I sure did change the look of my post.

Its understandable that you would have such kind of intolerance.

However, your opinion is fueled by some kind of beliefs that are not true.

"It's not like the word has lost its meaning, nor has that meaning changed."

It does change and it will continue to change. Go and publicly call someone a heretic, what will happen ? Well, pretty much nothing significant, maybe except to your reputation. No one will care. However, 500 years ago this could mean a difference between life and death for this someone and you as well. Did the meaning of this word not change ? The meaning is shaped by the situation and therefore context.

You cannot disconnect something from the context and judge it as something separate. In fact, this can be very harmful and often is. Your judgement will be off. It can make a difference between feeling deeply offended, feeling resentment towards someone, being in serious conflict with someone and between being able to understand this someone, take it as it was meant and not condemn this person for having ill-intentions or sick beliefs.

The impression I want to leave is that its understandable - it doesn`t mean someone is retarded or unintelligent - but the opionion that certain words and context are not connected or independant of each other, is misguided and wrong. Judgement based on surface-level interpretations, especially ones that ignore context, can be harmful and it is harmful. It breeds pointless conflicts, disagreements, often resentment and even hate or disdain.






Belial88
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5217 Posts
June 25 2011 00:54 GMT
#1045
I like this move by complexity. To be honest I like Destiny as a player, but it's so important to value professionalism in eSport IMHO. It just seems stuff like BM and general trashtalking is becoming a feat instead of a flaw in SC2, which I personally think is pretty sad. I know so many people disagree with this tho, they seem to love BM in Korea, so we'll probably be seeing more of it, rather than less.

To clarify, I'm not trying to say it's not fun watching personalities like MC doing the thumbs down when he wins a game over a rival (read: IdrA), as long as it is done with a cheeky smile and no hard feelings - I just dislike the fact that it's becoming cool to behave like an e-thug and be rewarded for it.


He doesn't act like an 'e-thug'. What are you talking about? It's like you just hear about gossip and comment on it without actually knowing what's going on. I mean do you watch Destiny's stream, and think he's being an e-thug? Or do you just hear about some of his antics and think that?

And what does he do that's unprofessional (this event aside, perhaps)? He has his own personal stream, that he runs for himself - that's as professional as you get. I mean what is so 'unprofessional' about Destiny? What is it that bothers you about him? He offers content, you don't have to watch the content if you don't like it. If you think it represents e-sports, well, it only does if you let it first off (do you think he represents you? Well there you go), and secondly this is a video game.

It kind of annoys me that people are trying to turn this into the PGA. It's not, it's a friggin video game. Do you think people are going to not enjoy this video game they bought at Best Buy to try out, because some other guy who plays it is inappropriate, according to someone's mom?

If complexity doesn't think Destiny is a good fit, that's fine, it's their call to make. But would he reflect poorly on any company? Hardly, he just has a potty mouth, he doesn't say anything inciteful or racist. His language is crude, and unless it's expected that your 'people' have proper mouths, it's kind of silly.
How to build a $500 i7-3770K Ultimate Computer:http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=392709 ******** 100% Safe Razorless Delid Method! http://www.overclock.net/t/1376206/how-to-delid-your-ivy-bridge-cpu-with-out-a-razor-blade/0_100
oDieN[Siege]
Profile Joined November 2009
United States2905 Posts
June 25 2011 00:58 GMT
#1046
Destiny parted ways with coL to recreate "EX" with you know who.. because? I don't know why.
말크 : ^_^~ NeO)GabuAt, vGODieN
WooChop
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States120 Posts
June 25 2011 01:02 GMT
#1047
On June 25 2011 09:58 ODieN wrote:
Destiny parted ways with coL to recreate "EX" with you know who.. because? I don't know why.

You didn't actually take that blog post seriously, did you?
lowreezy08
Profile Joined June 2011
United States143 Posts
June 25 2011 01:15 GMT
#1048
53 pages because someone got cut from a team over a video game...
sup
schmeebs
Profile Joined August 2010
United States115 Posts
June 25 2011 01:24 GMT
#1049
On June 25 2011 10:15 lowreezy08 wrote:
53 pages because someone got cut from a team over a video game...

welcome to a forum about discussing a video game, where we discuss things that involve people that play said video game.
fareed_d
Profile Joined June 2011
United Kingdom3 Posts
June 25 2011 04:07 GMT
#1050
literally made an account to
a) make a GSTL fantasy league, and
b) tell people to chill out. Go watch some interviews with Destiny from MLG or ask any other player how he acted when he went to a tournament. He's INCREDIBLY MANNER. People act as though he's some racist troll that just goes to tournaments to make rape jokes. He has literally done nothing at any event whatsoever that would be deemed innappropriate.

How he acts on his stream is his business. If you don't like it, don't watch it.
what?
Jonesin
Profile Joined June 2011
United States3 Posts
June 25 2011 06:05 GMT
#1051
On June 25 2011 09:48 UFO wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 25 2011 07:16 zeek0us wrote:
On June 25 2011 06:42 Aeo wrote:
You just made Destiny's own case—that context trumps diction. No one is advocating walking into a predominately black bar and slinging "nigger" around indiscriminately. That would be insensitive, and probably contribute to acute anemia in your future.

In the case of the n-word, and several others, the feeling conveyed by the word—connotation—has remained the same for as long as they've been in use. But in the gaming community in particular, the actual, literal denotation of the word has changed over time. It happens; it's called semantic shift and without it, there'd be no need for the field of etymology.

More to the point, insisting that the word remain both derogatory and pertain to the group of people it was meant to apply to only makes it more of an issue.


That's utter bullshit. In fact, you just made my point. The only difference in "context" between a bar and the internet is that in the former case, there are repercussions for using "nigger", whereas on the internet nothing happens.

And there's no change in the "actual, literal denotation" of the word. Just because kids on the internet spew it left and right doesn't signify a change in meaning. There's just nothing stopping them from using it.

There's no issue if people just don't use racial slurs with impunity. Once again I ask, if you're not trying to offend people of a particular group, what reason is there for using the word that exists to denigrate them? At best it's simply meaningless, like a white kid calling another white kid a "nigger". At worst, it's got the same intent as some southern hick 60 years ago calling a black dude a "nigger" before he hung him for whistling at a white woman . . .

It's not like the word has lost its meaning, nor has that meaning changed. It's just that people don't give a fuck about saying things that would be completely taboo in any context except one where they are completely anonymous and free from any consequences.



" The only difference in "context" between a bar and the internet is that in the former case, there are repercussions for using "nigger", whereas on the internet nothing happens. "

How on earth can you make such an utterly wrong, flawed statement a starting and central point of your argumentation ?

There are billions of possible differences depending on the context because meaning is always dependant on the context. There are hundreds of examples in which you can say the word "nigger" (or other inappropriate one) in a bar and not only get no repercussions for it but get a positive consequence. There is so much room for it being used in a funny or otherwise constructive way, without judgment or prejudice.


"Once again I ask, if you're not trying to offend people of a particular group, what reason is there for using the word that exists to denigrate them?"

Who said that the sole purpose in the existence of some word is to denigrate a particular group or people and that it absolutely can`t be used in any other way or have any other meaning ? There are just so many examples of how this word can be used in a very constructive and at the same time meaningful way.

At first my post was different because I see this opinion as a bullshit but reading what you said kinda makes me feel like you have a degree, probably a large degree, of intolerance towards words like "nigger" and I sure did change the look of my post.

Its understandable that you would have such kind of intolerance.

However, your opinion is fueled by some kind of beliefs that are not true.

"It's not like the word has lost its meaning, nor has that meaning changed."

It does change and it will continue to change. Go and publicly call someone a heretic, what will happen ? Well, pretty much nothing significant, maybe except to your reputation. No one will care. However, 500 years ago this could mean a difference between life and death for this someone and you as well. Did the meaning of this word not change ? The meaning is shaped by the situation and therefore context.

You cannot disconnect something from the context and judge it as something separate. In fact, this can be very harmful and often is. Your judgement will be off. It can make a difference between feeling deeply offended, feeling resentment towards someone, being in serious conflict with someone and between being able to understand this someone, take it as it was meant and not condemn this person for having ill-intentions or sick beliefs.

The impression I want to leave is that its understandable - it doesn`t mean someone is retarded or unintelligent - but the opionion that certain words and context are not connected or independant of each other, is misguided and wrong. Judgement based on surface-level interpretations, especially ones that ignore context, can be harmful and it is harmful. It breeds pointless conflicts, disagreements, often resentment and even hate or disdain.



"There are billions of possible differences depending on the context because meaning is always dependant on the context. There are hundreds of examples in which you can say the word "nigger" (or other inappropriate one) in a bar and not only get no repercussions for it but get a positive consequence. There is so much room for it being used in a funny or otherwise constructive way, without judgment or prejudice. "

Please, I beg of you, show me an example where the word "nigger" would be funny OR even constructive as you stated before. I have tried hard, but there is not one example I can think of.
You say there are hundreds of examples in which you can say that word and get a positive reaction BUT i would think there are more examples in which using that word would result in devastating consequences; even death.

"The impression I want to leave is that its understandable - it doesn`t mean someone is retarded or unintelligent - but the opionion that certain words and context are not connected or independant of each other, is misguided and wrong. Judgement based on surface-level interpretations, especially ones that ignore context, can be harmful and it is harmful. It breeds pointless conflicts, disagreements, often resentment and even hate or disdain. "

This statement I agree with, but in the first statement I quoted, I must strongly disagree with.


But getting back to DESTINY, I have watched his streams a couple of days, and I do believe he has toned it down with respects with the racist word "nigger"

Destiny I hope all is well, and good luck on your future







zizou21
Profile Joined September 2006
United States3683 Posts
June 25 2011 06:45 GMT
#1052
haha anyone that played cs knows coL is a joke; wise move steven
its me, tasteless,s roomate LOL!
strength
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States493 Posts
June 25 2011 06:48 GMT
#1053
On June 25 2011 15:45 zizou21 wrote:
haha anyone that played cs knows coL is a joke; wise move steven


Are u kidding me? coL cs was #1 in the world at one point. You have no idea what youre talking about.
JiYan
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3668 Posts
June 25 2011 07:32 GMT
#1054
he might be talking about cs:source
Falcor
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada894 Posts
June 25 2011 07:35 GMT
#1055
On June 25 2011 15:45 zizou21 wrote:
haha anyone that played cs knows coL is a joke; wise move steven


ru retarded? they were one of 2 north american teams that could compete internationally
alokin
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada269 Posts
June 25 2011 07:35 GMT
#1056
On June 25 2011 15:48 strength wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 25 2011 15:45 zizou21 wrote:
haha anyone that played cs knows coL is a joke; wise move steven


Are u kidding me? coL cs was #1 in the world at one point. You have no idea what youre talking about.

They were really good for awhile but they were never #1. Don't kid yourself buddy. They probably had the largest CS community/fanbase at one point.
twitch.tv/alokin1 come join me!
Falcor
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada894 Posts
June 25 2011 07:36 GMT
#1057
On June 25 2011 16:32 JiYan wrote:
he might be talking about cs:source


even css when they played they were the top for the 2 yrs they played it in cgs?
Disdain
Profile Joined May 2011
Denmark26 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-25 09:32:42
June 25 2011 09:30 GMT
#1058
On June 25 2011 09:54 Belial88 wrote:
Show nested quote +
I like this move by complexity. To be honest I like Destiny as a player, but it's so important to value professionalism in eSport IMHO. It just seems stuff like BM and general trashtalking is becoming a feat instead of a flaw in SC2, which I personally think is pretty sad. I know so many people disagree with this tho, they seem to love BM in Korea, so we'll probably be seeing more of it, rather than less.

To clarify, I'm not trying to say it's not fun watching personalities like MC doing the thumbs down when he wins a game over a rival (read: IdrA), as long as it is done with a cheeky smile and no hard feelings - I just dislike the fact that it's becoming cool to behave like an e-thug and be rewarded for it.


He doesn't act like an 'e-thug'. What are you talking about? It's like you just hear about gossip and comment on it without actually knowing what's going on. I mean do you watch Destiny's stream, and think he's being an e-thug? Or do you just hear about some of his antics and think that?

And what does he do that's unprofessional (this event aside, perhaps)? He has his own personal stream, that he runs for himself - that's as professional as you get. I mean what is so 'unprofessional' about Destiny? What is it that bothers you about him? He offers content, you don't have to watch the content if you don't like it. If you think it represents e-sports, well, it only does if you let it first off (do you think he represents you? Well there you go), and secondly this is a video game.

It kind of annoys me that people are trying to turn this into the PGA. It's not, it's a friggin video game. Do you think people are going to not enjoy this video game they bought at Best Buy to try out, because some other guy who plays it is inappropriate, according to someone's mom?

If complexity doesn't think Destiny is a good fit, that's fine, it's their call to make. But would he reflect poorly on any company? Hardly, he just has a potty mouth, he doesn't say anything inciteful or racist. His language is crude, and unless it's expected that your 'people' have proper mouths, it's kind of silly.


I haven't followed Destiny's stream for long, that's true. Mostly because what I see coming from that camp on reddit, and the few times I tuned in, is, as you say, "potty". I'm not gonna try to open an argument about Destiny's personality, because frankly I haven't followed him long enough to be able to say anything about him. To be honest he seems like a good guy. I like the way he handled the whole problem with the kid DDOS'ing him (to some extent).

I would like to say a few things about this claim that people who haven't been following eSport for a long while, and generally don't really believe the genre will get bigger than it is at the moment, that it is "just a video game". It's a video game, yeah, but when there are communities, companies, tournaments and people living off it, it's not longer "just" a video-game, it's an eSport. Why do you think the big teams (as coL in this instance) are saying they were "forced" to do this and that? Because we're dealing with contracts here. When people bound by those contracts behave a certain way (potty mouth or whatever), it reflects on the team that they are playing for, and not to mention, that teams sponsors. Aside from it being way smaller (outside Korea) than any normal sport, and it not being a physical sport, I really don't see the difference. When you're making money (as in people are giving you money) for it, certain expectations are to be met. eSports have been trying for years to get out of this "kids playing a video-game" box that non-gamers are using to dismiss it, by being professional and hosting big tournaments, grabbing bigger sponsors and having players bound by contract to make sure they represent the community in the right way.

I'm not trying to say there shouldn't be room for big personalities and some well-mannered BM, but all within reason.
aka. zenition (in DotA)
lowreezy08
Profile Joined June 2011
United States143 Posts
June 25 2011 09:32 GMT
#1059
On June 25 2011 10:24 schmeebs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 25 2011 10:15 lowreezy08 wrote:
53 pages because someone got cut from a team over a video game...

welcome to a forum about discussing a video game, where we discuss things that involve people that play said video game.



nice try though.
sup
IzieBoy
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States865 Posts
June 25 2011 09:38 GMT
#1060
what did complexity do to get destiny to leave?
Let's Do This! Leeeeeeeeeeeeeroy Jenkins!
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