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It is highly recommended that your read this entire thread - at least until page 10. If you make uninformed opinions that have been answered by the thread, col management or Destiny, you will be banned. |
On June 25 2011 03:46 Shrewmy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2011 01:12 sleigh bells wrote:On June 24 2011 18:59 MaHi wrote:
It never stops amaze me how much are Americans butthurt over just a words. It must be so crazy to live in society where everyone is his/her own censor O_o
I mean arent you little bit too concerned about this whole "racist" thing? How come that you all in America ( as I observed ) dont even write stuff like nigger etc? For me its so much more racist to write or say something like N-word instead of nigga, cause when you use that in order not to insult someone, it means you are concerned about someones race = you make difference between races = you are the real racist... yah acknowledging that races and racism exist is totally racist, brah must be nice living in a 98% white country They're still just words.
. . . is easy to say if you're a straight, white, male. It makes no sense for people who throw slurs at other people to decide that their impact is (or should be) minimal. That's like punching someone in face and saying, "aww, come on, it's just a fist, it's not a big deal". If you're not a racist, why would you talk like a racist? Sure, freedom of speech allows you to speak however you want, but how you speak reflects on who you are.
And in point of fact, words aren't "just words". They convey meaning -- without that meaning they'd just be sounds. And the n-word, for example, is loaded with meaning, especially when snarky little white dudes are using it. It's easy to be a "free speech advocate" on the internet, but you know you wouldn't walk into a bar with a bunch of black guys hanging out and start throwing it around. Why? Because while it might be just a "sound" to you, it would convey a very different meaning to the people it actually affects. They'd be justified in wondering just why the fuck you decided those particular sounds had to cross your lips and assuming it's because you think they aren't worth the courtesy of avoiding that one word which has no place in a non-racist's vocabulary.
People can use whatever language they want in America. But the right to free speech doesn't free you from responsibility for what you say. If you talk like an ignorant, insensitive, hateful little prick, don't be surprised when mature, responsible adults treat you like one. And claiming that you don't mean words the way they're taken is an exceedingly arrogant copout; who are you to determine what meaning is conveyed by certain words just because they're coming out of you're mouth?
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Personally, I think this is good news.
I was quite surprised when steven joined complexity, and didn't quite see him meshing well with the likes of Cruncher, or Ryze. I'm personally not a big fan of complexity - not trying to flame, just my personal opinion - and I just didn't see "coL.Destiny".
I believe in Steve! I know he will find a team that is more suitable. I know ROOT worked for him, and I know he will find something bigger and better out there, for himself (not saying that joining col for the root team was a downgrade or anything, it's a great opportunity). I like Steve because of who he is, and how we can track his progress from an amateur to a pro trying to break into the scene. I'm confident he'll find a definite 'step up' as well as a step in the right direction in future endeavors!
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On June 25 2011 05:07 zeek0us wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2011 03:46 Shrewmy wrote:On June 25 2011 01:12 sleigh bells wrote:On June 24 2011 18:59 MaHi wrote:
It never stops amaze me how much are Americans butthurt over just a words. It must be so crazy to live in society where everyone is his/her own censor O_o
I mean arent you little bit too concerned about this whole "racist" thing? How come that you all in America ( as I observed ) dont even write stuff like nigger etc? For me its so much more racist to write or say something like N-word instead of nigga, cause when you use that in order not to insult someone, it means you are concerned about someones race = you make difference between races = you are the real racist... yah acknowledging that races and racism exist is totally racist, brah must be nice living in a 98% white country They're still just words. . . . is easy to say if you're a straight, white, male. It makes no sense for people who throw slurs at other people to decide that their impact is (or should be) minimal. That's like punching someone in face and saying, "aww, come on, it's just a fist, it's not a big deal". If you're not a racist, why would you talk like a racist? Sure, freedom of speech allows you to speak however you want, but how you speak reflects on who you are. And in point of fact, words aren't "just words". They convey meaning -- without that meaning they'd just be sounds. And the n-word, for example, is loaded with meaning, especially when snarky little white dudes are using it. It's easy to be a "free speech advocate" on the internet, but you know you wouldn't walk into a bar with a bunch of black guys hanging out and start throwing it around. Why? Because while it might be just a "sound" to you, it would convey a very different meaning to the people it actually affects. They'd be justified in wondering just why the fuck you decided those particular sounds had to cross your lips and assuming it's because you think they aren't worth the courtesy of avoiding that one word which has no place in a non-racist's vocabulary. People can use whatever language they want in America. But the right to free speech doesn't free you from responsibility for what you say. If you talk like an ignorant, insensitive, hateful little prick, don't be surprised when mature, responsible adults treat you like one. And claiming that you don't mean words the way they're taken is an exceedingly arrogant copout; who are you to determine what meaning is conveyed by certain words just because they're coming out of you're mouth?
This is where people get confused. Destiny i doubt would go into a bar full of black people and start shouting the N-word not out of fear but respect for them. If he knew them and he knew they understood how he was using the word i think he would say it. He has said several times he is not out to make fun of race or sexuality but more to gereralize the word away from the group they have been associated with.
Words are words. Yes they hold a meaning and in fact they hold several meanings. They are also the lowest factor in trying to get across a message. That is a proven fact. This is why no matter what word you want to use you can make it come across worse than N word. You can be racist with out even using racial slurs and there are several racial slurs that are used for several other things that dont get same amount of attention. I am very against people who are racist, or judge people on their sexuality.
I also think its funny that more skinny white dudes are more the ones agaisnt the N-word than some of the black people on here. I have heard destiny talk to a black guy on stream who said he was agaisnt any one even black people using it and destiny stopped saying it in the conversation because he knew he was talking to an individual that was not happy about the word which was out of respect. That doesnt sound like a racist person to me. Maybe the word racist needs to be looked up so people can understand what it means before they shout it out judging people
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Well, honestly I think it doesn't matter if he was apart of the team or not. He (Destiny) is high enough on the ladder to get top players and that practice time will be beneficial. Also, nothing will prevent him from practicing with his friends that are on other teams. But the simple reality is that foreign teams aren't as important as Korean teams. Yes the sponsorships are nice. But he isn't in a house with the other players of his team. Practicing online with your team is nice, but there is a stark difference between MVP, Star Tale, or OGS compared to Root or Col now. I believe the head GSL guy was saying the skill level between Koreans and foreigners wasn't much but instead the way teams practiced. Its nice seeing FXO makings a stand in the GSTL. But otherwise a foreign team isn't nearly as important. Therefore, the move doesn't hurt Destiny at all.
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Someone made a comment about this, but how does what Steve do go against complexity's values, and then what Cruncher does consistently on stream and to streams not? I don't mean to be off topic, maybe Cruncher was reprimanded for what he did.
I know steve makes a lot of money from streaming, like a lot a lot. I remember in State of the Game, someone asked will teams and streams begin to start having opposing interests. I remember thinking "that's a ridiculous question" but now here we have this, as well as the SC2 Association from Korea, like in DRG's interview, being very private about replays.
I really don't think what Destiny says 'goes against community' or 'badly represents the community'. Sure, out of context, when he says things like RAPE it can be bad, but that goes with anything, especially someone who people want to point as the bad guy. The content of what he says is very rational and agreeable.
And of course.
Liquid'Destiny definitely sounds awesome 
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Wow  What did he say on the stream to get that? Anyway, I'm pretty sure a player like Destiny is going to find another team soon.
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♥ Destiny. You'll find a new team, i hope :-)
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On June 25 2011 05:07 zeek0us wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2011 03:46 Shrewmy wrote:On June 25 2011 01:12 sleigh bells wrote:On June 24 2011 18:59 MaHi wrote:
It never stops amaze me how much are Americans butthurt over just a words. It must be so crazy to live in society where everyone is his/her own censor O_o
I mean arent you little bit too concerned about this whole "racist" thing? How come that you all in America ( as I observed ) dont even write stuff like nigger etc? For me its so much more racist to write or say something like N-word instead of nigga, cause when you use that in order not to insult someone, it means you are concerned about someones race = you make difference between races = you are the real racist... yah acknowledging that races and racism exist is totally racist, brah must be nice living in a 98% white country They're still just words. . . . is easy to say if you're a straight, white, male. It makes no sense for people who throw slurs at other people to decide that their impact is (or should be) minimal. That's like punching someone in face and saying, "aww, come on, it's just a fist, it's not a big deal". If you're not a racist, why would you talk like a racist? Sure, freedom of speech allows you to speak however you want, but how you speak reflects on who you are. And in point of fact, words aren't "just words". They convey meaning -- without that meaning they'd just be sounds. And the n-word, for example, is loaded with meaning, especially when snarky little white dudes are using it. It's easy to be a "free speech advocate" on the internet, but you know you wouldn't walk into a bar with a bunch of black guys hanging out and start throwing it around. Why? Because while it might be just a "sound" to you, it would convey a very different meaning to the people it actually affects. They'd be justified in wondering just why the fuck you decided those particular sounds had to cross your lips and assuming it's because you think they aren't worth the courtesy of avoiding that one word which has no place in a non-racist's vocabulary. People can use whatever language they want in America. But the right to free speech doesn't free you from responsibility for what you say. If you talk like an ignorant, insensitive, hateful little prick, don't be surprised when mature, responsible adults treat you like one. And claiming that you don't mean words the way they're taken is an exceedingly arrogant copout; who are you to determine what meaning is conveyed by certain words just because they're coming out of you're mouth?
You just made Destiny's own case—that context trumps diction. No one is advocating walking into a predominately black bar and slinging "nigger" around indiscriminately. That would be insensitive, and probably contribute to acute anemia in your future.
In the case of the n-word, and several others, the feeling conveyed by the word—connotation—has remained the same for as long as they've been in use. But in the gaming community in particular, the actual, literal denotation of the word has changed over time. It happens; it's called semantic shift and without it, there'd be no need for the field of etymology.
More to the point, insisting that the word remain both derogatory and pertain to the group of people it was meant to apply to only makes it more of an issue.
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On June 25 2011 05:39 badcnr wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2011 05:07 zeek0us wrote:On June 25 2011 03:46 Shrewmy wrote:On June 25 2011 01:12 sleigh bells wrote:On June 24 2011 18:59 MaHi wrote:
It never stops amaze me how much are Americans butthurt over just a words. It must be so crazy to live in society where everyone is his/her own censor O_o
I mean arent you little bit too concerned about this whole "racist" thing? How come that you all in America ( as I observed ) dont even write stuff like nigger etc? For me its so much more racist to write or say something like N-word instead of nigga, cause when you use that in order not to insult someone, it means you are concerned about someones race = you make difference between races = you are the real racist... yah acknowledging that races and racism exist is totally racist, brah must be nice living in a 98% white country They're still just words. . . . is easy to say if you're a straight, white, male. It makes no sense for people who throw slurs at other people to decide that their impact is (or should be) minimal. That's like punching someone in face and saying, "aww, come on, it's just a fist, it's not a big deal". If you're not a racist, why would you talk like a racist? Sure, freedom of speech allows you to speak however you want, but how you speak reflects on who you are. And in point of fact, words aren't "just words". They convey meaning -- without that meaning they'd just be sounds. And the n-word, for example, is loaded with meaning, especially when snarky little white dudes are using it. It's easy to be a "free speech advocate" on the internet, but you know you wouldn't walk into a bar with a bunch of black guys hanging out and start throwing it around. Why? Because while it might be just a "sound" to you, it would convey a very different meaning to the people it actually affects. They'd be justified in wondering just why the fuck you decided those particular sounds had to cross your lips and assuming it's because you think they aren't worth the courtesy of avoiding that one word which has no place in a non-racist's vocabulary. People can use whatever language they want in America. But the right to free speech doesn't free you from responsibility for what you say. If you talk like an ignorant, insensitive, hateful little prick, don't be surprised when mature, responsible adults treat you like one. And claiming that you don't mean words the way they're taken is an exceedingly arrogant copout; who are you to determine what meaning is conveyed by certain words just because they're coming out of you're mouth? This is where people get confused. Destiny i doubt would go into a bar full of black people and start shouting the N-word not out of fear but respect for them. If he knew them and he knew they understood how he was using the word i think he would say it. He has said several times he is not out to make fun of race or sexuality but more to gereralize the word away from the group they have been associated with. Words are words. Yes they hold a meaning and in fact they hold several meanings. They are also the lowest factor in trying to get across a message. That is a proven fact. This is why no matter what word you want to use you can make it come across worse than N word. You can be racist with out even using racial slurs and there are several racial slurs that are used for several other things that dont get same amount of attention. I am very against people who are racist, or judge people on their sexuality. I also think its funny that more skinny white dudes are more the ones agaisnt the N-word than some of the black people on here. I have heard destiny talk to a black guy on stream who said he was agaisnt any one even black people using it and destiny stopped saying it in the conversation because he knew he was talking to an individual that was not happy about the word which was out of respect. That doesnt sound like a racist person to me. Maybe the word racist needs to be looked up so people can understand what it means before they shout it out judging people
Yes, you can do worse things than use racist language. And I'm not sure where anyone has proven that words are the least important part of getting a message across, but whatever. Ignorance is the basis of bigotry. And part of that ignorance is lack of awareness about how certain words come off to the groups they're associated with. It's easy enough to avoid words that are commonly known to be offensive to groups of people. So then the question remains: why, exactly, do you need to use a particular slur if you know that it's offensive? Aren't there enough colorful, but non-racist words out there? If you're not ripping on a particular group, why are you using the word that exists as a way to rip on that ethnic group?
So because a few black guys out there don't mind the n-word, it should be okay to say it? Their forbearance is enough to wipe out the majority of other people who do take offense? Just because I'm not black means I shouldn't object to people being assholes because they're not being assholes to me in particular? And is Destiny to be lauded because he stopped using a word only after someone specifically asked him to stop? Like he didn't realize it was offensive to begin with?
"Generalize the word away from the group they have been associated with"?!?!? What the fuck does that mean? Racial slurs are associate with the race they're denigrating -- that's specifically why those words exist! What kind of quixotic madness is it attempt to dissociate a racial slur from the people it was invented to insult?
My point is just that it's bullshit to try justifying the use of bigoted language. If you want to talk like that, fine. Maybe you really don't hate people who are different than you. Your insistence on talking like someone who does is puzzling to me, but whatever. Just don't then try to make it into something all noble and progressive. You're talking like an asshole and likely offending a lot of people. If you don't care about offending people, fine. But if you do, change the way you talk instead of trying to rationalize your own selfish stubbornness as some post-racial enlightenment.
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Destiny seems to be more of a solo, team-less type of player. He has his own set of rules that work for him, being on a team just doesn't seem fitting. The way Destiny has handled it has already been addressed by him so I really don't see how the posts are still borderline off-topic.
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On June 25 2011 06:56 zeek0us wrote:
Yes, you can do worse things than use racist language. And I'm not sure where anyone has proven that words are the least important part of getting a message across, but whatever. Ignorance is the basis of bigotry. And part of that ignorance is lack of awareness about how certain words come off to the groups they're associated with. It's easy enough to avoid words that are commonly known to be offensive to groups of people. So then the question remains: why, exactly, do you need to use a particular slur if you know that it's offensive? Aren't there enough colorful, but non-racist words out there? If you're not ripping on a particular group, why are you using the word that exists as a way to rip on that ethnic group?
So because a few black guys out there don't mind the n-word, it should be okay to say it? Their forbearance is enough to wipe out the majority of other people who do take offense? Just because I'm not black means I shouldn't object to people being assholes because they're not being assholes to me in particular? And is Destiny to be lauded because he stopped using a word only after someone specifically asked him to stop? Like he didn't realize it was offensive to begin with?
"Generalize the word away from the group they have been associated with"?!?!? What the fuck does that mean? Racial slurs are associate with the race they're denigrating -- that's specifically why those words exist! What kind of quixotic madness is it attempt to dissociate a racial slur from the people it was invented to insult?
My point is just that it's bullshit to try justifying the use of bigoted language. If you want to talk like that, fine. Maybe you really don't hate people who are different than you. Your insistence on talking like someone who does is puzzling to me, but whatever. Just don't then try to make it into something all noble and progressive. You're talking like an asshole and likely offending a lot of people. If you don't care about offending people, fine. But if you do, change the way you talk instead of trying to rationalize your own selfish stubbornness as some post-racial enlightenment.
I don't think you understand the situation - he doesn't go around broadcasting slurs at random crowds. He uses the language he chooses in his private life between himself and others. Just because he happens to share his private life with the public doesn't make it any less private, they have to choose to view it.
I understand the concept of robbing words of their racial connotations perfectly, is it the phrasing used that confused you? Look at it this way, if white people who were lazy and acted stupid would be called niggers (which racists do, btw.) and the slur loses it's racial connotation on the spot. (unfortunately the groups stupid enough to use it rarely grasp what they've done.) Now if you take it a step further and just pay no heed to swearing or inappropriate words in general, they are robbed of all shock value or derogatory effect, until you have to use a different set of words. The never ending train of words becoming offensive/harmless keeps me from actively participating in the desensitization of society but as a concept it;'s pretty easy to follow.
More important to me is to be more amused by acting like a racist bigot then to censor yourself for fear of sounding like one. Nothing is more amusing to me then insulting your friends in a way that can only be described as racist, offensive, or irrational. Just so, actual racists rarely can actually make me upset, as I literally laugh in their face. I think the ridicule is much more effective at dissuading them from their narrow, negative opinions, and censorship just leads to racists living among us in secret, only being revealed by their actions since they would never say anything to give them away.
I don't think I can keep from rambling if I keep pondering the opposing viewpoints on censorship and desensitization, but make note it is more ignorant of you to correct someone else's language than find the meaning behind it - and determine whether they are sincere in their hatred or insincere, and therefore just as disgusted by racism as you.
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On June 23 2011 05:50 EZSkull wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 05:49 Mario1209 wrote:On June 23 2011 05:44 EZSkull wrote:On June 23 2011 05:40 Coldplum wrote:
This is going to destroy complexity's shot at playing competitively Releasing Destiny will stop them from being competitive? I don't see how. am i the only one that caught the sarcasm in that post? Probably. Sacrasm doesn't exactly come through on the internet well 
Well I usually use a at the end of a statement if it's sarcastic. Since he typed the sentence like a normal sentence it's pretty hard to tell if it was sarcastic or not.
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On June 25 2011 06:42 Aeo wrote:
You just made Destiny's own case—that context trumps diction. No one is advocating walking into a predominately black bar and slinging "nigger" around indiscriminately. That would be insensitive, and probably contribute to acute anemia in your future.
In the case of the n-word, and several others, the feeling conveyed by the word—connotation—has remained the same for as long as they've been in use. But in the gaming community in particular, the actual, literal denotation of the word has changed over time. It happens; it's called semantic shift and without it, there'd be no need for the field of etymology.
More to the point, insisting that the word remain both derogatory and pertain to the group of people it was meant to apply to only makes it more of an issue.
That's utter bullshit. In fact, you just made my point. The only difference in "context" between a bar and the internet is that in the former case, there are repercussions for using "nigger", whereas on the internet nothing happens.
And there's no change in the "actual, literal denotation" of the word. Just because kids on the internet spew it left and right doesn't signify a change in meaning. There's just nothing stopping them from using it.
There's no issue if people just don't use racial slurs with impunity. Once again I ask, if you're not trying to offend people of a particular group, what reason is there for using the word that exists to denigrate them? At best it's simply meaningless, like a white kid calling another white kid a "nigger". At worst, it's got the same intent as some southern hick 60 years ago calling a black dude a "nigger" before he hung him for whistling at a white woman . . .
It's not like the word has lost its meaning, nor has that meaning changed. It's just that people don't give a fuck about saying things that would be completely taboo in any context except one where they are completely anonymous and free from any consequences.
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On June 25 2011 06:56 zeek0us wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2011 05:39 badcnr wrote:On June 25 2011 05:07 zeek0us wrote:On June 25 2011 03:46 Shrewmy wrote:On June 25 2011 01:12 sleigh bells wrote:On June 24 2011 18:59 MaHi wrote:
It never stops amaze me how much are Americans butthurt over just a words. It must be so crazy to live in society where everyone is his/her own censor O_o
I mean arent you little bit too concerned about this whole "racist" thing? How come that you all in America ( as I observed ) dont even write stuff like nigger etc? For me its so much more racist to write or say something like N-word instead of nigga, cause when you use that in order not to insult someone, it means you are concerned about someones race = you make difference between races = you are the real racist... yah acknowledging that races and racism exist is totally racist, brah must be nice living in a 98% white country They're still just words. . . . is easy to say if you're a straight, white, male. It makes no sense for people who throw slurs at other people to decide that their impact is (or should be) minimal. That's like punching someone in face and saying, "aww, come on, it's just a fist, it's not a big deal". If you're not a racist, why would you talk like a racist? Sure, freedom of speech allows you to speak however you want, but how you speak reflects on who you are. And in point of fact, words aren't "just words". They convey meaning -- without that meaning they'd just be sounds. And the n-word, for example, is loaded with meaning, especially when snarky little white dudes are using it. It's easy to be a "free speech advocate" on the internet, but you know you wouldn't walk into a bar with a bunch of black guys hanging out and start throwing it around. Why? Because while it might be just a "sound" to you, it would convey a very different meaning to the people it actually affects. They'd be justified in wondering just why the fuck you decided those particular sounds had to cross your lips and assuming it's because you think they aren't worth the courtesy of avoiding that one word which has no place in a non-racist's vocabulary. People can use whatever language they want in America. But the right to free speech doesn't free you from responsibility for what you say. If you talk like an ignorant, insensitive, hateful little prick, don't be surprised when mature, responsible adults treat you like one. And claiming that you don't mean words the way they're taken is an exceedingly arrogant copout; who are you to determine what meaning is conveyed by certain words just because they're coming out of you're mouth? This is where people get confused. Destiny i doubt would go into a bar full of black people and start shouting the N-word not out of fear but respect for them. If he knew them and he knew they understood how he was using the word i think he would say it. He has said several times he is not out to make fun of race or sexuality but more to gereralize the word away from the group they have been associated with. Words are words. Yes they hold a meaning and in fact they hold several meanings. They are also the lowest factor in trying to get across a message. That is a proven fact. This is why no matter what word you want to use you can make it come across worse than N word. You can be racist with out even using racial slurs and there are several racial slurs that are used for several other things that dont get same amount of attention. I am very against people who are racist, or judge people on their sexuality. I also think its funny that more skinny white dudes are more the ones agaisnt the N-word than some of the black people on here. I have heard destiny talk to a black guy on stream who said he was agaisnt any one even black people using it and destiny stopped saying it in the conversation because he knew he was talking to an individual that was not happy about the word which was out of respect. That doesnt sound like a racist person to me. Maybe the word racist needs to be looked up so people can understand what it means before they shout it out judging people Yes, you can do worse things than use racist language. And I'm not sure where anyone has proven that words are the least important part of getting a message across, but whatever. Ignorance is the basis of bigotry. And part of that ignorance is lack of awareness about how certain words come off to the groups they're associated with. It's easy enough to avoid words that are commonly known to be offensive to groups of people. So then the question remains: why, exactly, do you need to use a particular slur if you know that it's offensive? Aren't there enough colorful, but non-racist words out there? If you're not ripping on a particular group, why are you using the word that exists as a way to rip on that ethnic group? So because a few black guys out there don't mind the n-word, it should be okay to say it? Their forbearance is enough to wipe out the majority of other people who do take offense? Just because I'm not black means I shouldn't object to people being assholes because they're not being assholes to me in particular? And is Destiny to be lauded because he stopped using a word only after someone specifically asked him to stop? Like he didn't realize it was offensive to begin with? "Generalize the word away from the group they have been associated with"?!?!? What the fuck does that mean? Racial slurs are associate with the race they're denigrating -- that's specifically why those words exist! What kind of quixotic madness is it attempt to dissociate a racial slur from the people it was invented to insult? My point is just that it's bullshit to try justifying the use of bigoted language. If you want to talk like that, fine. Maybe you really don't hate people who are different than you. Your insistence on talking like someone who does is puzzling to me, but whatever. Just don't then try to make it into something all noble and progressive. You're talking like an asshole and likely offending a lot of people. If you don't care about offending people, fine. But if you do, change the way you talk instead of trying to rationalize your own selfish stubbornness as some post-racial enlightenment.
The fact that words are least important factor in getting a message across comes from science. Hence the phrase actions are stronger than words. You can probably find it on any site that talks about body language. To say destiny is being or acting like a bigot because of his use of a word that is not used in a racist or prejudice way comes off sounding more like your the bigot. I am not saying you are. I may not be like destiny and go around saying the n-word and such, but with the way he says it is in a non prejudice way. So i say all the power to destiny and i will keep watching his stream. And to keep this on the topic it should be good luck to col players and destiny.
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On June 25 2011 07:16 zeek0us wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2011 06:42 Aeo wrote:
You just made Destiny's own case—that context trumps diction. No one is advocating walking into a predominately black bar and slinging "nigger" around indiscriminately. That would be insensitive, and probably contribute to acute anemia in your future.
In the case of the n-word, and several others, the feeling conveyed by the word—connotation—has remained the same for as long as they've been in use. But in the gaming community in particular, the actual, literal denotation of the word has changed over time. It happens; it's called semantic shift and without it, there'd be no need for the field of etymology.
More to the point, insisting that the word remain both derogatory and pertain to the group of people it was meant to apply to only makes it more of an issue. That's utter bullshit. In fact, you just made my point. The only difference in "context" between a bar and the internet is that in the former case, there are repercussions for using "nigger", whereas on the internet nothing happens. And there's no change in the "actual, literal denotation" of the word. Just because kids on the internet spew it left and right doesn't signify a change in meaning. There's just nothing stopping them from using it. There's no issue if people just don't use racial slurs with impunity. Once again I ask, if you're not trying to offend people of a particular group, what reason is there for using the word that exists to denigrate them? At best it's simply meaningless, like a white kid calling another white kid a "nigger". At worst, it's got the same intent as some southern hick 60 years ago calling a black dude a "nigger" before he hung him for whistling at a white woman . . . It's not like the word has lost its meaning, nor has that meaning changed. It's just that people don't give a fuck about saying things that would be completely taboo in any context except one where they are completely anonymous and free from any consequences.
So how is it that The n-word lost its true meaning in the first place if the meaning cant be changed now. Words change meaning , new words are made. I really think its a good thing that a lot of the community is agaisnt racism and prejudice out there but i really think they are taking the fight to the wrong place. Destiny by no means is creating, increasing or maintaining any racism or prejudice. So i think maybe with so many people on here interested maybe try joining some gay pride marches or support groups and such and help them out. Might be a better idea to stop spreading hate on here and maybe a little more love out in the real world. Just saying.
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And what does some completely theoretical discussion about Destiny saying the word nigger, which he never does, have to do with complexity and Destiny? So say you don't it when people use the word - great - what does that have to do with what's going on here?
I mean what are you saying? Are you saying you don't like Destiny because of how he acts or who he is and being judgmental, instead of the actual player and his insights into the game?
I mean Destiny's Baneling Rape analogy was an amazing piece of information related to the game. Not family friendly, perhaps, but just hilarious and it was great information. Even if you don't like how he says it, what he said was very helpful.
Anyways, it's kind of annoying there are 20 pages of what if Destiny says this word that he never says and the literary history of the word. Like anyone cares and it changes anything about whether or not it is appropriate to say.
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Destiny is a boss. He is smart, witty, and very fun to watch. While the whole situation does suck for everyone involved, I don't doubt that destiny still has a great sc future ahead of him.
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On June 25 2011 07:54 Belial88 wrote:
And what does some completely theoretical discussion about Destiny saying the word nigger, which he never does, have to do with complexity and Destiny? So say you don't it when people use the word - great - what does that have to do with what's going on here?
I mean what are you saying? Are you saying you don't like Destiny because of how he acts or who he is and being judgmental, instead of the actual player and his insights into the game?
I mean Destiny's Baneling Rape analogy was an amazing piece of information related to the game. Not family friendly, perhaps, but just hilarious and it was great information. Even if you don't like how he says it, what he said was very helpful.
Anyways, it's kind of annoying there are 20 pages of what if Destiny says this word that he never says and the literary history of the word. Like anyone cares and it changes anything about whether or not it is appropriate to say.
I agree. I think i have heard It like hundred times more from the people attacking it then from destiny actually saying it .
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Destiny's got a great thing going, with a ton of viewers. He should be the HBO to everyone else's bland, politically correct primetime television.
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I like this move by complexity. To be honest I like Destiny as a player, but it's so important to value professionalism in eSport IMHO. It just seems stuff like BM and general trashtalking is becoming a feat instead of a flaw in SC2, which I personally think is pretty sad. I know so many people disagree with this tho, they seem to love BM in Korea, so we'll probably be seeing more of it, rather than less.
To clarify, I'm not trying to say it's not fun watching personalities like MC doing the thumbs down when he wins a game over a rival (read: IdrA), as long as it is done with a cheeky smile and no hard feelings - I just dislike the fact that it's becoming cool to behave like an e-thug and be rewarded for it.
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EPT
