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ShotgunMike
Sweden241 Posts
Those are just my 2 cents worth of thoughts and they do not bring any solutions. I just want to believe that there will come some “new” blood into the scene (such as ThorZain and others) that have the dedication and mindset required to practice and keep the foreign flags high. This is the only way to continue to make Starcraft something large in terms of getting people to watch and invest their time and interest in the game. Edit: Very nice OP by the way!  | ||
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Eluadyl
Turkey364 Posts
On June 09 2011 21:49 Pudge_172 wrote: I wonder how much benefit you get out of hour 9 and 10 when playing 10 hours of SC2 a day. Even if it is broken up into 2 or 3 sessions, it seems that at some point it becomes overkill. Another thing I've been thinking about: With so many online tournaments, do players spend too much time competing and not enough training? Thirdly, with streaming taking up a decent amount of a players time, do they actually get any skill benefit from playing while streaming? Do they actually get to practice "real" builds or is it just vanilla build after vanilla build. This. Except that I think 10 hours of practice is not overkill if you think about the word "pro". Any professional (people having a profession) works about 8 to 10 hours a day. Should be no different for gamers who do it as a profession. | ||
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ThatGuy89
United Kingdom1968 Posts
i cant think of any top non-korean player that does that. They practice alot, but its not that religious. Im not one for this korea vs rest of world, but i think we should all be proud of what these players did, much respect :D ♥ | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
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ilmman
364 Posts
On June 10 2011 01:14 ThatGuy89 wrote: you just gotta think about what MMA said. These koreans just practice all day.Get up and play. eat and then play. sleep. Get up and play. eat. and then play and sleep. over and over again i cant think of any top non-korean player that does that. They practice alot, but its not that religious. Im not one for this korea vs rest of world, but i think we should all be proud of what these players did, much respect :D ♥ The practice like its a job.. They get money and get paid for it... Now unless the average person don't work 8 hours a day then its no different to a korean playing starcraft 8 hours a day. Because if anyone is working then they get up each day.. goto work.. eat and then go home and sleep. over and over again.. So whats the difference? your getting paid to play a game... same shiett.. Now I heard that idra practice on average 3 hours a day from the game state stream.. so what does he do for the rest of the day instead? Top foreigners like ret still have to get money from his dad so he can fly over his "friend" to his home country. | ||
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godemperor
Belgium2043 Posts
On June 10 2011 01:32 ilmman wrote: The practice like its a job.. They get money and get paid for it... Now unless the average person don't work 8 hours a day then its no different to a korean playing starcraft 8 hours a day. Because if anyone is working then they get up each day.. goto work.. eat and then go home and sleep. over and over again.. So whats the difference? your getting paid to play a game... same shiett.. Now I heard that idra practice on average 3 hours a day from the game state stream.. so what does he do for the rest of the day instead? Top foreigners like ret still have to get money from his dad so he can fly over his "friend" to his home country. I think its important that most non-korean players don't follow a training schedule, unlike the koreans. (2 four hour sessions for oGs i believe) Also regarding ret, that was because he didn't have a credit card, he repaid his dad later on with a wired transfer, though i still question his judgement. | ||
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ilmman
364 Posts
On June 10 2011 01:25 andrewlt wrote: It's funny how people take it as a given that the gap between foreigners and Koreans is astronomical in BW but it's somehow close or nonexistent in SC2 because of a few 2-1 wins by Koreans. You guys might want to check WCG results again. Hint: Koreans weren't always 1-2-3 and winning every set 2-0. I've only heard DjWheat and day[9] bragging about how non koreans are so much closer in skill now always using TSL as an example and always trying to negate the fact that lag is nnot the cause of the loss. Now we all know that the only reason skill is closer because Blizzard took out all the small things that Koreans were good at that had a huge advantage in games.. Multi Select buildings mass units selection etc... By adding those nub friendly stuff in non koreans are able to keep par with korean players for some time.. Now doing those extra hours of practice gives korean those small advantages.. man MMA's 3 way multi prong atk with them all microed..... so beatiful... it would be sad if Blizzard released the next starcraft where they make multi prong atks easier for non koreans.. | ||
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ilmman
364 Posts
On June 10 2011 01:37 godemperor wrote: I think its important that most non-korean players don't follow a training schedule, unlike the koreans. (2 four hour sessions for oGs i believe) Also regarding ret, that was because he didn't have a credit card, he repaid his dad later on with a wired transfer, though i still question his judgement. well where i work I have to wake up early goto work at the same time everyday.. break is on at the same time and i finish at the same time (unless i do overtime).. If a pro gamer wants to make a career out of this then they should have a training schedule. I think foreigners are not committing to the standard of Koreans (or perhaps simulate it to same as they would be working in a job) | ||
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cydereal
United States193 Posts
North America and Europe are only now starting to toss their best players together in practice houses. Once this becomes more prevalent, we'll see the NA/Euro scene become more equal with Korea. Until then, I think the competition will be fierce, but that little bit of consistency will edge results toward the Koreans. | ||
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godemperor
Belgium2043 Posts
On June 10 2011 01:42 ilmman wrote: well where i work I have to wake up early goto work at the same time everyday.. break is on at the same time and i finish at the same time (unless i do overtime).. If a pro gamer wants to make a career out of this then they should have a training schedule. I think foreigners are not committing to the standard of Koreans (or perhaps simulate it to same as they would be working in a job) In addition to training house and schedule, the non-korean scene also misses a coach to coordinate these things in a pro house. | ||
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Ero-Sennin
United States756 Posts
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Akta
447 Posts
On June 10 2011 01:00 Eluadyl wrote: I agree, at least when we are discussing "elite gaming". On the other hand it's completely possible that 10 hours or more produce worse result than for example 8. It's probably individual thought and wild guess that not practicing enough is a bigger issue for most players than practicing too muchThis. Except that I think 10 hours of practice is not overkill if you think about the word "pro". Any professional (people having a profession) works about 8 to 10 hours a day. Should be no different for gamers who do it as a profession. | ||
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War Horse
United States247 Posts
MC slaughtered Idra. There is no other way to put it. On Sunday Idra was outplayed, outthought, outmicroed, just plain beaten. Foreigners are never going to be able to train like the Koreans because of the distance separating them and the logistics of getting players together in a house like that. EG has a practice house, and really, Idra is the only player there that would be able to get to up/downs. The Korean houses, except for Slayers, aren't even training all that hard compared to the BW houses, according to Guemchi. Imagine when the other teams adopt the Slayers model. The gap is large right now; Idra and Naniwa are the top 2 foreigners and they looked completely outclassed vs Losira and MC. Thorzain held strong against MC but the better player won that series too (though Thorzain, as a very good preparation player, could be good in GSL). I can only see the gap growing, just like the gap in BW started and grew insurmontable. | ||
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mangina
United States230 Posts
It's true, the Korean scene is more professional, competitive, and fierce. All their hours of practice and dedication is shown from their results in big tournaments like these. I agree, they should continue to invite Koreans to MLG and possibly other events. It brings attention and excitement. It will also give foreigners a sense of what they need to improve to be as good as the Koreans. You have to play against the very best to BE the best. Always challenging oneself is the best way to improve. Foreigners can look back and improve on this tournament. One good example is Naniwa with his dancing zealots. The ceremony was too early and it cost him the game. Despite adding excitement and laughter, it would have given him one more game against MC and a chance to win. "Unprofessional" is probably the best word to use after reading your article. The Koreans, as you said, are "professional", they put the pro in pro-gaming. But this only makes a player better. Naniwa will never let something like that happen again. He's learned from it. And that makes him one step better than what he was before. Likewise, let the games go on! Continue to invite these power house professionals and see what the future holds for us. Otherwise, we'll never have a definite answer if Koreans are truly born for RTS games. Let's find out | ||
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cydereal
United States193 Posts
On June 10 2011 01:39 ilmman wrote: Now we all know that the only reason skill is closer because Blizzard took out all the small things that Koreans were good at that had a huge advantage in games.. Multi Select buildings mass units selection etc... I'm sorry, but these are not the main delimiters of skill at the high end. Multi-select buildings made macro easier than Brood War, largely by lowering the APM requirement, NOT the demand for good decision-making. Mass unit selection helps move blobs around the map, but pro gamers actually go contrary to that and control finer groups within their army during combat (and for good reason) even though the mass selection is available. SC2 cut out a lot of the overhead required to make units and get them together to the fight. | ||
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hasuterrans
United States614 Posts
On June 10 2011 02:31 mangina wrote: Great post indeed, as many have agreed! It's true, the Korean scene is more professional, competitive, and fierce. All their hours of practice and dedication is shown from their results in big tournaments like these. I agree, they should continue to invite Koreans to MLG and possibly other events. It brings attention and excitement. It will also give foreigners a sense of what they need to improve to be as good as the Koreans. You have to play against the very best to BE the best. Always challenging oneself is the best way to improve. Foreigners can look back and improve on this tournament. One good example is Naniwa with his dancing zealots. The ceremony was too early and it cost him the game. Despite adding excitement and laughter, it would have given him one more game against MC and a chance to win. "Unprofessional" is probably the best word to use after reading your article. The Koreans, as you said, are "professional", they put the pro in pro-gaming. But this only makes a player better. Naniwa will never let something like that happen again. He's learned from it. And that makes him one step better than what he was before. Likewise, let the games go on! Continue to invite these power house professionals and see what the future holds for us. Otherwise, we'll never have a definite answer if Koreans are truly born for RTS games. Let's find out Meh Naniwa still would have lost he just wouldn't have lost as badly. I'm not sure why people keep bring this point up, he was only dancing for ~3 seconds. Sure he would have killed some probes but ultimately he had no answer to the dts which was why he gg'd. | ||
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FenneK
France1231 Posts
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rift
1819 Posts
The only things in foreigners' favor right now is that the majority of the talent is still in Brood War, and if this changes there is "nowhere to go but down", unfortunately. We'll see if anything changes in August, when contracts expire. They only thing we can do, in my opinion, is to form team houses in the exact same model and with the same regimen as they have. Living together is not the same. | ||
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cheesemaster
Canada1975 Posts
On June 08 2011 13:16 sPaM916 wrote: Ya i agree completely, the foreigners gave the very best koreans a challenge. Honestly besides MMA i would definitely not say the very best koreans, especially in bold letters lol. Aside from MC i would hardly call any of those players the very best (july is up there too i guess but their are still better zergs then him in korea such as nestea) MMA still has a long way to go hes in code a still and has never won a code a either. Then losira who has done reasonably well since he got into code s but by no means has he been spectacular, and then there is moon who isnt even in code A. MKP MVP Nestea , Alicia, bomber, Nada there are other but i dont want to ramble off a huge list, werent there to show their stuff, and i would argue aside from MC (and maybe july) they are better players then those that were invited. They are great players , but i wouldnt call them the "very best" aside from MC who hasnt even been performing well in korea since his win 2 season ago (if you include the current super tournament) | ||
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MadnessX
United States77 Posts
Everyone needs to read this. | ||
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