[SC2 Foreigner Scene] Nowhere to Go but Up - Page 11

On June 11 2011 09:35 hifriend wrote:
Lol this is such bullshit. It has nothing to do with having "superior genes," the koreans are just willing to work harder than the majority of foreign players and their way of practice is superior as well. If anything, the gap will keep increasing as coin flip play by inferior players gets increasingly figured out. Koreans are the best because practice pays off.

On July 04 2011 09:15 Endymion wrote:


I don't know if you read the article, but the Koreans absolutely manhandled Columbus where every top foreigner excluding HuK and Jinro were present. How exactly is this not "completely dominating" when the 4 koreans in pool play took the 4 top spots of the whole event?

On July 04 2011 09:25 SafeAsCheese wrote:


Because they can lose still?

In SC2, when you see koreans vs top foreign players, at most you will say the koreans will probably win 60-75%.

What would you say if the top 8 BW players played against the top foreigners in 2008 or 2009?

Most BW fans would say 100% chance koreans would all not drop a series, probably not even a game.

On July 04 2011 11:03 Blasphemi wrote:
Koreans are outnumbered 10 to 1 in foreign tournaments and still dominate.

On July 04 2011 09:22 Phyxate wrote:

MMA is in code A and can't seem to win there anyways lol. Such a moot point. Bring Nestea, Polt or scFOU over and it would be no contest.

Koreans work harder, period.

On July 04 2011 11:23 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:


It's pretty obvious that quantity has nothing to do with quality, Koreans have been sending over some of their better players (MC, Bomber, Losira), so obviously they're going to beat the random signups from 3rd tier North American teams.

Many of the foreign – Korean matches were close. Ridiculously close. IdrA was one anxiety attack away from besting MMA in the winners bracket. Sjow had MMA on the ropes during a well thought out base trade which went wrong because of banshee cloak tech. Despite claims of a non-working keyboard INcontroL took a game off Losira and could have easily taken the series with a little bit better timing. Naniwa was three dancing zealots away from detecting MC’s dark shrine and effortlessly defending his main with a single cannon.

On July 04 2011 10:56 Heavenly wrote:
IdrA was only close to beating MMA because MMA destroyed his own command center, why do people think he outplayed him for some reason? If MMA hadn't destroyed his own command center he would have won, hence IdrA lost either way. Claiming that he would have won if he stayed in the game is irrelevant because that has nothing to do with skill.

The keyboard issues with Losira are pretty well-known, there is no arguing that. He beat MC and Naniwa, I think he could handle Incontrol.

IdrA did beat MC but they are overall 8-2, MC was jetlagged but we can ignore that. Either way MC was in position to win both games convincingly and he didn't press the advantage. He could have easily sniped the hatch in game 2 and won. In game 1 after defending the drop he could have pushed out and at least killed IdrA's fourth and potentially his third. Also if he had his colossus out literally 10 seconds earlier he would have killed the entire drop without losing a single unit due to the forcefield donut. IdrA won them because his opponent made worse mistakes, that's how most games are lost, but it was hardly the roflstomp people claim for some reason.

Almost all TvTs are close until someone just straight up loses. It's a mirror matchup, the difference between players is based on small little things they do, and MMA did it better.

In the MC v Thorzain MC won 4 straight up macro games fairly convincingly. Thorzain won 1 macro game and the other one was a one base tank/marine/banshee push against MC going 1 gate expand into phoenix. That game was not exactly indicative of skill and if there wasnt an extended series with MC already ahead I doubt he would do something like one gate expand phoenix against someone who does one base tank/marine/banshee all the time. He even tried literally the exact same thing again next game but didnt go through with it because he didnt scout an expansion from MC when MC had actually expanded to the gold. MC then proceeded to literally roll over him despite half of his army engaging a planetary fortress while half of his chargelots engaged the army.

MarineKingPrime, Nestea, Bomber, MVP, Alicia, DongRaeGu, Polt, scfou, Genius, etc. all did not come. If they did you can pretty much claim if the top koreans came they would have literally taken every spot one to whatever number of them there was with maybe IdrA and Naniwa being in there somewhere.

There are ways to make uplifting posts to inspire the foreign scene to train hard but this isn't it. The basic premise of "there is no where to go but up" doesn't make sense because the Korean scene is only becoming stronger and stronger and the foreign scene is staying the same, with the zerg hero IdrA getting worse because he was training less and less. Yes, SC2 is a game where anyone can beat anyone and the Koreans aren't undefeatable. Cruncher could beat Nestea with a DT rush. But your examples are pretty silly in this case.

The only foreigners I can think of that have a winning record against Koreans are Naniwa 2-0 against Moon, Huk 3-2 against Moon, and Huk 3-1 against MC. Moon not even being a particularly amazing Korean zerg, the whole Huk being a oGs/korean server player argument, and his win against MC being a PvP series when both of them PvP each other all the time in their team ouse. The list of winning records of Koreans against foreigners is quite a bit higher.

On July 04 2011 11:23 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:


It's pretty obvious that quantity has nothing to do with quality, Koreans have been sending over some of their better players (MC, Bomber, Losira), so obviously they're going to beat the random signups from 3rd tier North American teams.

On July 09 2011 08:48 Rasky wrote:
not looking too good.

On July 09 2011 09:28 Gheed wrote:


Are we going to bump this thread every time foreigners get dominated by Koreans, lol?

On July 04 2011 10:56 Heavenly wrote:
IdrA was only close to beating MMA because MMA destroyed his own command center, why do people think he outplayed him for some reason? If MMA hadn't destroyed his own command center he would have won, hence IdrA lost either way. Claiming that he would have won if he stayed in the game is irrelevant because that has nothing to do with skill.

The keyboard issues with Losira are pretty well-known, there is no arguing that. He beat MC and Naniwa, I think he could handle Incontrol.

IdrA did beat MC but they are overall 8-2, MC was jetlagged but we can ignore that. Either way MC was in position to win both games convincingly and he didn't press the advantage. He could have easily sniped the hatch in game 2 and won. In game 1 after defending the drop he could have pushed out and at least killed IdrA's fourth and potentially his third. Also if he had his colossus out literally 10 seconds earlier he would have killed the entire drop without losing a single unit due to the forcefield donut. IdrA won them because his opponent made worse mistakes, that's how most games are lost, but it was hardly the roflstomp people claim for some reason.

Almost all TvTs are close until someone just straight up loses. It's a mirror matchup, the difference between players is based on small little things they do, and MMA did it better.

In the MC v Thorzain MC won 4 straight up macro games fairly convincingly. Thorzain won 1 macro game and the other one was a one base tank/marine/banshee push against MC going 1 gate expand into phoenix. That game was not exactly indicative of skill and if there wasnt an extended series with MC already ahead I doubt he would do something like one gate expand phoenix against someone who does one base tank/marine/banshee all the time. He even tried literally the exact same thing again next game but didnt go through with it because he didnt scout an expansion from MC when MC had actually expanded to the gold. MC then proceeded to literally roll over him despite half of his army engaging a planetary fortress while half of his chargelots engaged the army.

MarineKingPrime, Nestea, Bomber, MVP, Alicia, DongRaeGu, Polt, scfou, Genius, etc. all did not come. If they did you can pretty much claim if the top koreans came they would have literally taken every spot one to whatever number of them there was with maybe IdrA and Naniwa being in there somewhere.

There are ways to make uplifting posts to inspire the foreign scene to train hard but this isn't it. The basic premise of "there is no where to go but up" doesn't make sense because the Korean scene is only becoming stronger and stronger and the foreign scene is staying the same, with the zerg hero IdrA getting worse because he was training less and less. Yes, SC2 is a game where anyone can beat anyone and the Koreans aren't undefeatable. Cruncher could beat Nestea with a DT rush. But your examples are pretty silly in this case.

The only foreigners I can think of that have a winning record against Koreans are Naniwa 2-0 against Moon, Huk 3-2 against Moon, and Huk 3-1 against MC. Moon not even being a particularly amazing Korean zerg, the whole Huk being a oGs/korean server player argument, and his win against MC being a PvP series when both of them PvP each other all the time in their team ouse. The list of winning records of Koreans against foreigners is quite a bit higher.