EPTIt would be nice if players could say that rather than, "well, there are just numerous competitions like IPL, MLG, and NASL I would have to miss out on. So this is Gom's fault they need to put more money on the line".
GomTV caster: "Growth of e-sports" - Page 15
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epik151
312 Posts
It would be nice if players could say that rather than, "well, there are just numerous competitions like IPL, MLG, and NASL I would have to miss out on. So this is Gom's fault they need to put more money on the line". | ||
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darksage78
Canada243 Posts
I think there is a definite disadvantage for players to go to Korea at the moment. Surmising from the last several weeks, personal commitment and the separating yourself from the other tournaments and thus the other money available is the biggest crux of the opposition to moving to Korea. For some reason the explosive growth of the Starcraft 2 scene in the rest of the world has not been matched in Korea. Hopefully due to the resolution between Kespa and Blizzard we may see more Starcraft 2 tournaments spring up in Korea. With additional tournaments that do not conflict with GSL participation, I believe more foreign players can get the most out of their experience by moving to Korea. Not all foreign players are willing to take the risk of competing in the Korean scene because like Thorzain has said, they want to better themselves before going to Korea to prove themselves. But during the time of bettering themselves, they also need a scene to help provide the incentive of continuing their progaming and that is the key advantage the Western scene is providing at the moment - more tournaments cultivating new talent. However, GOMtv has already done a lot in the accommodation of foreigners who want to go to Korea. Unless they're willing and able to start up single week or bi weekly tournaments ontop of their GSL and GSTL, I don't see how they can offer more money to satisfy players. I think it all comes down to how the Korean e-sports scene decides to expand beyond the GSL. Also big props to Mr. Chae for heading over to MLG Columbus, I hope you have a great time. Like I told MMA at GSTL, you MUST try a Denny's breakfast. Do it. | ||
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genius_man16
United States749 Posts
 I wonder what the big team announcement is? I hope it's something along the lines of getting 6 foreign teams in the GSTL and making it a simple 16 team tourney, that would be pretty big | ||
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SxYSpAz
United States1451 Posts
great things happening at gsl! can't wait to see these changes ^^ On May 27 2011 20:01 ceciljacobs wrote: it's gotta be dignitas. naniwa has talked about spending time on korea, select *is* korean and I think sjow mentioned it in the past at some point. i couldn't see it being any other team. i was thinking the same thing, and that is, in my mind, the best team that could go, so i really hope so! i also thought sixjax was a possibility, just because artosis might want to shed some light on his team... but that seems a bit early. | ||
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snailz
Croatia900 Posts
On May 28 2011 01:03 Ruccola wrote:Some food for thought If you can barely maintain Code S status, i.e. Ro32 each season and never progressing beyond that, you will make $1400 a month which is $5600 total (4 seasons). AND as a barely Code S player in Korea, u get 5 times stream viewers and lesson takers than u would if u were making it big in EU/NA tourneys. which equals even more money. i think our players are liars who are affraid to admit they cant handle the competition, so they make excuses. | ||
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TehRaZer
36 Posts
On May 28 2011 00:22 Bombmk wrote: What part is ignorant? You yourself bring up the sacrifices the Korean players have made. Which was basically what I said. They have cut a lot of things out of their lives for a very narrow focus. More so than foreign players do. Nothing inherently wrong with that, but logically it also follows that the western players _on average_ lead more all-encompassing lives. Can we agree on that - or am I being a jerk and biased again? (And you can save the ''if you don't know by now, I'm not going to tell you'' argument for your boyfriend, btw) So the foreign players (that might go to Korea) have more stuff to give up in the equation, given their current situation, than their Korean counterparts who are already leading that life. Making the Korea > US jump require less _additional_ sacrifices than the US > Korea jump for the individual player considering either. (The end total of course being the same, give or take.) As far as I can tell thats just logical? Very clever. The part that was ignorant was assuming a westerner would have more to sacrifice than a Korean in becoming a progamer and living in a foreign country. Maybe that wasn’t really your point at all and I overacted and the perceived bias against non-westerners wasn’t there. My last statement still stands though. | ||
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vnlegend
United States1389 Posts
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vanhio
Niue1017 Posts
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kNightLite
United States408 Posts
I am looking forward to the changes to the GSTL, hopefully they will increase foreigner participation. I'm not sure if they will work, but I appreciate that GSL is making an effort. I think the main problem that foreigners have with the MLG-GSL exchange program is the prize pool distribution. Winning Code A is only $1400, which is barely enough to cover the round trip flight to Korea. It also requires staying in Korea for 1-2 months, which makes it difficult to participate in froreign tournaments where foreigners can win much more than $1400 in a month. In comparision, MLG only requires a 3 days in the US, and has a $5000 prize for winning the tournament. Another thing to consider is tournament format. MLG has group stage play, which means that if you're a good player you don't need to worry about getting eliminated due to bad luck. However in GSL Code A you can be pitted against someone like MVP or Dongraegu in the first round, and unless you get really lucky you go home with next to nothing. | ||
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pockie
United States30 Posts
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darmousseh
United States3437 Posts
MLB is the pinnacle of baseball of the world. It has the highest salaries, the best players, etc. Japanese baseball has some great players, but it's the equivilent of AAA baseball. Now a few japanese players do come over, such as ichiro suzuki, who is by far the best hitter hitting #1 in the lineup, but after that, it's very rare. The problem is that the average professional in Japan is good, but will most likely play a bench position at best in the MLB. There is a language barrier as well. So Japanese players must decide 1. Do I play in Japan, have tons of fans in an environment I'm comfortable in, and accept that I won't get to play in the MLB. 2. Spend a few years in Minor League baseball in the states and try to get into a starting position on an mlb team, not know the language, and be in an unfamiliar environment. This decision will have a lot to do with money, but I would say that a player would need a lot of extra money in order to make decision #2. A similar thing for foreigners 1. Do I go to GSL code A and practice all day in an attempt to get into the top 32 so I can make a moderate salary in a place where i'm unfamiliar with the language, environment, etc? 2. Do I participate in foreign tournaments, live in a comfortable place, and choose my own pace for practicing? This decision is tough. Initially GSL was the only big thing. Tons of foreigners tried out. Only 3, Idra, jinro and huk have had any success and it's been limited at best. Idra already spent years in korea on scbw, so his decision to come back to the states was probably related more to an environmental change. Huk's reason, same as Naniwa, is to the best player there ever was and they both would be willing to spend whatever it takes, which is why for them, decision #1 is no problem, but most foreign pros don't believe they are good enough yet and that the cost of moving to korea (language barrier, environment, etc) is not worth it. So, I have a few suggestions to make the decision to move to korea move valuable. 1. No team house. The team house is a great idea, but it encourages isolation. We need integration. Ogs and teamliquid formed a partnership of their own accord, but I think the other teams will need a little more encouragement. How about something like this instead: When a foreign player moves from the states, that a team can choose to partner with his foreign team. GomTV should pay for living expenses for 3 months for that player. In exchange, the korean team gets a player in a code A spot (improving their odds of being in gstl) and that the foreign team agrees to provide temporary accommodations for a korean player who wishes to travel abroad. If MC comes to the US, i'm sure teamliquid would love to share an hotel room for an event like MLG. 2. Korean language training. One of the cheapest, but most valuable things Gom can do is to provide language training. Living in a house full of koreans will help, but formal training would solidify things more. Not everyone has the desire to learn korean, but if you provide it for free, i'm sure more would take it up. 3. Encourage a cultural experience. Teamliquid was fortunate to be with ogs and the players really get to experience a lot of korean culture, but players who are in the foreigner house simply feel like nothing is different for them except they have difficulty going out. GomTV should sponser BIWEEKLY events for the players. Things like, beach day, or biking day, or rollar coaster day etc. It makes the league more fun for the players. 4. Plan 3 months ahead. Set the GSL schedule in stone for at least 3 months at a time. This allows other tournaments to schedule their competitions based on that. 5. Raise the minimum payout for Code S players each month to $2000 USD. It's much harder for a player to get a sponsorship if they are only playing in korea. English speaking sponsers would rather focus on english tournaments so this is to make up for the loss of potential sponsors. I think a lot of this is possible, but expensive. Maybe do these things slowly. I think the team integration part is the most important though. | ||
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waylanderm
Netherlands118 Posts
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Flare23
United States27 Posts
On May 27 2011 20:08 dhcustom wrote: This. The OP doesn't actually address the specific issues that are creating this problem in the first place. His "backward universe" analogy just creates a circular argument and he mentions nothing about the language, lifestyle, the length/potential profitability of the tournament and whatnot. There is just no substance to his argument. So which concerns exactly from the foreigners do you not understand? I'm terribly sorry that the rest of the world out there doesn't accommodate to all ur perceived needs. For someone like you, I absolutely recommend you never leave your own country because surely the strangeness and savagery of foreign lands will be too much for your gentle heart to bear. Personally I had a very international up bringing and education, moving nearly every two years and having the opportunity to live in places such as China, Korea, Southeast Asia, USA, Canada, Italy, France, Russia, etc. Now let me summarize that experience for you, the world is a big fucking place and you are not at the center of it. Most of the interesting and noteworthy people I meet throughout my travels are reaching out however, they are oftentimes traveling themselves, learning new languages, connecting to others from different cultures, expanding their horizons, exploring their dreams. For those people, they realize that the world is a rich field waiting to be harvested and that each new country represents a new opportunity to expand your mind and develop your career. Gom isn't just giving people a chance to win money in a game, it's also giving people a chance to live beyond their own borders and shatter those tiny little mental barriers they have imagined up for themselves. Language differences? Lifestyle differences? These differences are not drawbacks you backwards hillbilly, these differences represent a opportunity for personal and professional growth. These differences are the your ADVANTAGES, if u have the ability to harness them properly. So don't be weak, step out of your comfort zone, learn, adapt, overcome, and learn humility. I work in a international firm in Shanghai now and everyday I work with global clients attempting to get more global. I work with talented people from around the world, all speaking multiple languages and skilled in bridging mutiple cultures. The world is changing rapidly, I suggest you start looking outward before you get left behind. | ||
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Marou
Germany1371 Posts
On May 27 2011 19:47 Parapa wrote: If you win you receive 50 thousand dollars and gain popularity from Starcraft2 fans all around the world. Barriers such as “culture/language difference” are worth enduring for such fame and money and should not be a big problem. Such barriers can be overcome if one is willing to put effort. Fame + Cash solves. I feel the same. On May 27 2011 19:47 Parapa wrote: However, Korean teams are willing to form alliance or partnership with foreign teams and they have stated that they will be happy to accept if there is any foreign team or player willing to join force. In fact Korean teams are very eager to recruit able foreign players. Right now i'm dreaming of a GSTL with teams like oGs-TL, Slayers-mouz, ST-fnatic, IM-EG and so on :d On May 27 2011 19:47 Parapa wrote: I have provided “opportunity” through “system”, and “opportunity” is all that I can provide. Creating “results” is not my job but up to the players themselves, through their will and amount of practice. Mr.Chae Jung Won, i love you. On May 27 2011 19:47 Parapa wrote: Many of things that are happening now in e-sports are changes that never happened in past 10 years. I’m sure that you too feel that e-sports is evolving rapidly. <3 | ||
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rickybobby
United States405 Posts
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skrzmark
United States1528 Posts
On May 28 2011 01:10 darksage78 wrote: Also big props to Mr. Chae for heading over to MLG Columbus, I hope you have a great time. Like I told MMA at GSTL, you MUST try a Denny's breakfast. Do it. Oh so your that guy... | ||
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Benjef
United Kingdom6921 Posts
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Striding Strider
United Kingdom787 Posts
On May 28 2011 01:34 Marou wrote: Mr.Chae Jung Won, i love you. Seconded. <3 | ||
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proxY_
United States1561 Posts
That's just the reality with the relatively small amount of non-gsl tournaments in Korea as well as latency issues effectively preventing players from competing in foreign tournaments. In the future with more sponsorships this could absolutely change as sponsors could salary and foot the bill for their players to play in Korea because it would be on effectively the largest stage but that scene hasn't evolved yet. | ||
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Benjef
United Kingdom6921 Posts
On May 28 2011 01:12 SxYSpAz wrote: i was thinking the same thing, and that is, in my mind, the best team that could go, so i really hope so! i also thought sixjax was a possibility, just because artosis might want to shed some light on his team... but that seems a bit early. Gonna be Fnatic (They have been expressing a want to go to Korea for so long, especially TT1) or Dignitas as Naniwa is going over there, hes just waiting for details to be finalized. | ||
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