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vrok
Sweden2541 Posts
On May 28 2011 00:27 JustPassingBy wrote: Of course they would go, with their skill they have a good chance to win the whole thing. Just take a look at MC in Dreamhack, for example. Yes. Exactly this. Look at MC at Dreamhack. Look at how we treated him and then look at how much he enjoyed it and wanted to come back because of it. It speaks for itself. | ||
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rotegirte
Germany2859 Posts
On May 27 2011 22:53 See.Blue wrote: It's very easy to make these grand statements but what if it was your livelihood on the line? Would you take a tremendous financial risk and leave home/place to live/source of income just on the offshoot you CAN beat MC or Nestea or someone and win a GSL? Even if you're a contender most individuals are risk averse enough to not opt for travel. Stop throwing these melodramatic lines around. May it be sensible not to take a risk? Yes. But for the love of the lord, stop pretending that 1 month will put your livelihood on the line. What do you expect to happen, if you fall out in the first round? Your team and sponors dropping you instantly? Your family disinherit you? Being chased tared and feathered out of town? Getting your strong hand broken as a public punishment? Give me a break. I am currently following a career in academia, striving for a "decent life", 1(?) wife 2 kids and that stuff. But man, even now I'd be thrilled to be given such an opportunity. Always loved travelling, seeing new places and get out of my cage once in a while. | ||
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ct2299
380 Posts
On May 28 2011 00:29 vrok wrote: Yes. Exactly this. Look at MC at Dreamhack. Look at how we treated him and then look at how much he enjoyed it and wanted to come back because of it. It speaks for itself. Right. Let's put aside the fact that MC also attended because he figured he had a good shot at the prize money. Let's instead look at how people liked Jinro when he made it to RO4 twice and proved himself to be a true contender. You have to make yourself known if you want the Korean viewership to like you. Who else has proved as much as him aside from IdrA? What, you expect Koreans to like randomscrub123? That's like sending some random korean scub who didn't make Code A and expect the foreign fans to cheer for him. Would they? DOUBT IT. People like MC because he's proven himself and because he's damn good at what he does. | ||
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ct2299
380 Posts
On May 28 2011 00:34 rotegirte wrote: May it be sensible not to take a risk? Yes. But for the love of the lord, stop pretending that 1 month will put your livelihood on the line. What do you expect to happen, if you fall out in the first round? Your team and sponors dropping you instantly? Your family disinherit you? Being chased tared and feathered out of town? Getting your strong hand broken as a public punishment? Give me a break. I am currently following a career in academia, striving for a "decent life", 1(?) wife 2 kids and that stuff. But man, even now I'd be thrilled to be given such an opportunity. Always loved travelling, seeing new places and get out of my cage once in a while. No one EXPECTS them to want to go to Korea. I think what people are complaining about is that people are complaining it is KOREAs fault when it is clearly the fault of the gamer themselves. If they feel they aren't good enough fine, thats okay! No one blames you for being honest. Don't just go and put the blame on Korea like FNatic has done TWICE now. | ||
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pieman819
Australia457 Posts
On May 28 2011 00:24 Darpa wrote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Heres my thoughts on your OP. You said you are 100% confident that Marineking, MVP, MC, would come to america to play in a prestigeous lan tournament if given the opportunity. I kind of doubt that. If the situations were identical. Your not mentioning the financial influence. The 1 month stay, the room and bored, the flights, those are all secondary to the main reason why foreigners wont come. The Money. You need to think of it from foreign perspective. Most foreign players dont stand a chance in GSL, with a select few exceptions. However they are good enough to maintain a healthy income in the NA or EU scene because there are tons (literally hundreds) of other online tournaments and lan scenes (MLG, Dreamhack, IEM, Assembly ect ect). It is way more lucartive for a foreign player to play in the Foreign scene smaller tournies than it is for a 1 month 1 shot endevour at a big prize. If Marineking, MC, MVP, ect had the opportunity to go to a prestigous lan in NA but had virtually no chance of winning any reasonable prize, because the foreign scene was stronger than the korean scene AND they were giving up thousands of dollars of prize money at home. I honestly kind of doubt that they would be as eager to make a committment like that as you seem confident that they would. In the end, most esports players are poor. 1 shot at a big prize when you know for a fact you have literally zero chance of winning it is not very much incentive. Losing in the round of 32 in code S is the same prizemoney as 4th place at MLG, winning in r32 code S is almost the same as 4th place at Dreamhack | ||
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ct2299
380 Posts
I see the name now. "GomTV Charity League: Where even losers are winners!!" | ||
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Darksteel
Finland319 Posts
On May 28 2011 00:24 Darpa wrote: Your not mentioning the financial influence. The 1 month stay, the room and bored, the flights, those are all secondary to the main reason why foreigners wont come. The Money. You need to think of it from foreign perspective. Most foreign players dont stand a chance in GSL, with a select few exceptions. However they are good enough to maintain a healthy income in the NA or EU scene because there are tons (literally hundreds) of other online tournaments and lan scenes (MLG, Dreamhack, IEM, Assembly ect ect). It is way more lucartive for a foreign player to play in the Foreign scene smaller tournies than it is for a 1 month 1 shot endevour at a big prize. If Marineking, MC, MVP, ect had the opportunity to go to a prestigous lan in NA but had virtually no chance of winning any reasonable prize, because the foreign scene was stronger than the korean scene AND they were giving up thousands of dollars of prize money at home. I honestly kind of doubt that they would be as eager to make a committment like that as you seem confident that they would. In the end, most esports players are poor. 1 shot at a big prize when you know for a fact you have literally zero chance of winning it is not very much incentive. First off all thanks GOM for really showing intrest in this subject. I find it quite controversial when a lot of people make the claim that the money is better outside of korea. According to http://ehcg.djgamblore.com/ stats top 10 earnings are 9 / 10 people in GSL, top 20 earnings has only 6 foreigners of which Jinro's wins are mainly from the GSL and some of Idra's from GSL afaik. Even after the top 20 places, the next 30 places have 14 / 30 koreans and the around 50 % koreans 50 % foreigners split continues after that too. In my eyes it seems that a lot of people forget that players who are not in Code S finals get prize money too, or got. I'm not really sure how much the prize distribution changed after the GSL open seasons but nevertheless korean players have made decent amount of money from prizes. Sure the general skill level might be higher in korea, but just "placing decent in Code S" gives you a nice reward. Most of the foreigner online events split the prize pool to only the top 3-4 and the amount of players actually winning the big online tournaments is quite small. I'd imagine that the seed directly into Code S from MLG victory is quite nice chance for extra earnings. I just think that this is one aspect that is often neglected when discussing this topic. Sorry if my info is outdated. | ||
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shell
Portugal2722 Posts
GSL clearly cares and talked with the foreigner teams and managers and understands the problems and is trying to solve them! I have bought some seasons of GSL like i did for this super tournament because I think you guys do a wonderfull job, not just the show, tastosis, the skill level etc.. Thanks so much for you harwork and keep improving! | ||
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R0YAL
United States1768 Posts
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AWakefield
Canada420 Posts
Firstly, “Foreign players can now participate as a mercenary in Korean team”. You may be able to see Jinro or Huk as member of oGs-TL in team league. I fist pumped and shouted yes at this. That is so incredibily kickass. Also thank you again for posting this. It was very respectful and also very awesome. I look forward to those future anouncements you teased. | ||
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Kazeyonoma
United States2912 Posts
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Draconicfire
Canada2562 Posts
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Cade
Canada1420 Posts
Thank you Chae Jung Won and GOMTV for being so accommodating to foreigners and for creating such a spectacular tournament! | ||
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Cade
Canada1420 Posts
On May 28 2011 00:27 JustPassingBy wrote: Of course they would go, with their skill they have a good chance to win the whole thing. Just take a look at MC in Dreamhack, for example. So basically what you are saying is that foreigners don't have the skill to have a good chance to win GSL? | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On May 28 2011 00:54 Cade wrote: So basically what you are saying is that foreigners don't have the skill to have a good chance to win GSL? Yes, I thought that was the bottom line of everything? If you have the skill to advance through Code A and place high in the GSL, the stay in Korea is more than worth it. However if you don't think you can accomplish that, then staying outside Korea is a wiser choice. Maybe the Koreans just need to attend more big events outside Korea. | ||
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Bombmk
Denmark95 Posts
On May 28 2011 00:27 JustPassingBy wrote: Of course they would go, with their skill they have a good chance to win the whole thing. Just take a look at MC in Dreamhack, for example. But you see, the problem with that example is that if it was truly a reverse world, the skill levels would be equivalently turned around there. Why else would it be their dream? And then those frequent online tournaments start looking a lot better. Not saying it shoots down the example, but its rather bad and does not support a 100% confidence level imho. But yeah, if all that was switched was the tournament styles and the prize money, they very likely would go. Theres nothing wrong with acknowleding that the skill level in GSL makes competing there, even for the very best foreigners, an outside shot at glory that they do not feel measures up to the the cost. "The tournament is worth the effort" is a highly subjective view. Which should be clear from the fact that that not everyone agrees. And no player would be a chicken or a coward for coming to that conclusion - or whatever people are hinting at them being in this thread. Theres tons of good reasons for not making the required sacrifices. Would love to see more try. But cannot fault them if they don't, really. | ||
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vrok
Sweden2541 Posts
On May 28 2011 00:57 JustPassingBy wrote: Yes, I thought that was the bottom line of everything? If you have the skill to advance through Code A and place high in the GSL, the stay in Korea is more than worth it. However if you don't think you can accomplish that, then staying outside Korea is a wiser choice. Maybe the Koreans just need to attend more big events outside Korea. Yes. This is what needs to happen. Koreans need to participate in foreigner events more and take their prize money so there's no more bullshit excuses. Too bad online is too laggy to take all of that prize money as well. | ||
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Vehemus
United States586 Posts
But please understand that rejection of an invitation to play in a month long or longer tournament in Korea which a foreigner likely has very little chance of winning is not an attack or rejection of your country or your company. It is a selfish reason that they say "I do not think I can beat sixty other top-level Koreans and I do not have the money to travel back and forth to participate in local tournaments during my stay in Korea." It is simply a business decision from most players because they are not confident enough in their skills and they feel that they will perform better, be more comfortable and likely profit more when all things are considered. If travel to and from Korea was not so expensive it would likely not be as much of an issue. I think that many people are not completely clear on the changes GOMtv has made to the schedule to be much more accommodating to players' wishes to play in multiple tournaments, but this isn't exactly a solution when one would have to travel back and forth from Korea to Europe or North America two or three times during the course of the GSL Super Tournament to play in the local tournaments they also wish to participate in. Nobody is asking GOMtv to try to solve this problem, it is a problem that arises from having too much competitive SC2 going on in the world at this time. There are some players who truly wish to become the best, and some players who want to play just to win money. If going to Korea reduces someone's chance of winning money or reduces the potential amount of money they can earn in that time period, then some players are going to decline. It is not overly complicated. | ||
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Ruccola
Norway81 Posts
"I have seen people time and again claiming that there is more money to be made in NA/EU in total compared to Korea without checking or citing any numbers. I did some rough calculations based on TL tournament database (Disclaimer: I know it is the not comprehensive database but it does account for most of the huge tournaments.) Here is the breakup for 2011 based on TL tournament database. Premier Tournaments (Jan-Jun Code A to Dreamhack Summer) (Wiki2)Premier Tournaments Korean individual events: ~$685,000 NA/EU individual events: ~$292,000 (Note, you can include IGN PL S2 $50,000 for July as well since it is listed there but then GSL July prize pool also needs to be included which will further increase the difference) Major Tournaments (Wiki2)Major Tournaments World ~ $85,000 (euros/pounds roughly converted to dollars) Adding both up Korea : ~$685,000 World : ~$377,000 Note: You will need ~308 $1000 weekly tourneys or ~1540 $200 weekly tournaments to make up the balance. I doubt there have been that many scale tournaments to make up the difference. Conclusion: Even though the prize-pools are much more top heavy in Korea, the total prize pool in Korea is in fact higher than the rest of the world combined (possibly even after talking the countless smaller tournaments into account). For team tournaments as well(2011): (Wiki2)Team Tournaments Korea : ~$51,000 Rest of World: ~$32,000 Some food for thought If you can barely maintain Code S status, i.e. Ro32 each season and never progressing beyond that, you will make $1400 a month which is $5600 total (4 seasons). According to Prize Money Rank, that will put you in the ~Top 60 prize ranking for this year. Note, a lot of the people above you will still be Koreans. It seems people like to put too much emphasis on small scale tournaments in EU/NA but the amount of competition in these too also do not allow you to make as much as you could by just staying in Top32 Code S and not progressing any time beyond it." | ||
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Steamroller
Finland756 Posts
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