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On January 16 2013 19:41 seiferoth10 wrote:
Wow, you just disregarded a whole scenario where they don't have control over their information, and proceeded to rant on about how they should control their own information (while ignoring the scenario where they have no control over their information).
You either have control over information or you don't. If you do, you have to manage it. If you don't, you have to plan for it getting out and beat leaks to the punch so that you can control the story.
Seriously, this whole industry is amateur hour when it comes to dealing with the media.
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On January 16 2013 19:32 Angelbelow wrote:
Why is there an EG hate fest on reddit? Last I left off TB was on and basically "semi" agreed with and understood Alex Garfield's perspective.
Im an EG fan aswell, I understand Alex point of view but I also get Slasher's, If they tell a lot of people so that Slasher gets wind of it, they kind of have to blame themselves, not Slasher, Although when he gets information from a "lower" source he could speak with the team or release the info beforehand, that is really his choice and no-one can tell him if it is right or wrong TB doesn't get hate because he understands the way Slasher works, and he actually gave him constructive critisism that he should speak with teams and make interesting and good interviews instead of "stealing their thunder". I don't understand why people are so angry at EG either, I don't think Slasher is angry at all. (I cannot speak of his behalf obviously)
It's just reddits need to ruin all good..
As they stated in the beginning, this talk was needed, People need to know what is ok and what is not.
In 1 month this will all be forgotten and Slasher and other journalists know that people may get pissed of so they will hopefully be more carefull with what they release earlier than wanted AND teams will hopefully be more carefull with their "secret" information.
This is my take on it.
also.. Less hate more love <3
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On January 16 2013 19:39 matiK23 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 19:32 Angelbelow wrote:
Why is there an EG hate fest on reddit? Last I left off TB was on and basically "semi" agreed with and understood Alex Garfield's perspective. Like you said he "semi" agreed on Alex's perspective. TB was also smart enough to not leak all the information to Slasher, i.e. Scarlett competing in the GSTL.
Yeah then he goes on to tell Slasher to create more interesting material because they would "respect you more." That is basically the sentiment that Alex was trying to echo but TB was very friendly, but blunt about it.
In regards to the info that TB leaked to Slasher, he follows it by saying that this probably wouldn't work for most teams and that he should stop.
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On January 16 2013 19:43 Angelbelow wrote:
I will say that trying to "control" media/journalists is impossible, so I agree with you on that point. But I also think one journalists continuously leaking information after being told not to will lead to a freeze out of information for that individual
Journalists don't "leak" information except to the extent they promise not to talk about something and then talk.
This is not that. What Alex is complaining about is Slasher finding third-party (i.e. non-EG) sources about EG-related stories and then writing based on what they tell him. And guess what, his stories wind up being accurate! Imagine that!
What's happened here is that an organization, EG, has trusted employees who can't actually be trusted to keep their mouths shut, they talk to someone else, and it gets back to a reporter. Blaming the reporter for this is nuts. It's the employees who have violated confidence.
Alternatively, in some instances, there's some hostile party who has the story and leaks it. In that case, the story wasn't in the hands of (name your favorite sympathetic party) to control.
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On January 16 2013 19:29 Lysenko wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 19:25 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:
Didn't watch the "show" and I don't want to waste time on the topic, but sometimes the leak comes from the organisation who lost the bid for a certain player. We see it a lot in football, with coaches and managers saying "no we won't sign this guy, apparently he has a verbal agreement with an other team". You can't be 100% leakproof in a competitive environnement.
Maybe that's true. So what? Part of dealing with the media ends up being understanding and accepting that there will be leaks. The fact that the esports community has no experience dealing with the media doesn't make their pain the media's problem. Edit: I've spent my adult life working in an industry that's the subject of significant, ongoing media attention. I've never been particularly the subject of that attention, but from the very first day the message was clear: "don't talk to the media, and if you have friends in the media, don't share secrets with them that they'd want to write about." If you're an executive with a secret to keep, you have to pick and choose your real secrets and keep them within a circle that knows how to deal with the media or can be and is willing to be trained. It sounds like these organizations are just having team meetings where they tell everyone "oh, a, b, and c is happening" yet they place a strong premium on controlling the story. What?? It doesn't work like that!
The thing is that a small leak is actually financially beneficial for EG. Optimally, it would be like a regular game of telephone where someone who actually knows something tells someone else (who has no credibility). That person then tells someone else and so on. The information gets distorted and no one actually knows anything concrete but only bits and pieces of the truth. It turns into something like, "Did you hear X player is moving to Y team?" "What? I thought Y player was moving to X team..." etc. This builds up hype in the community and more interest overall in the official announcement.
The e-sports community by itself is closed. In order to grow it needs to acquire revenue from outside. In this case, Slasher (someone with credibility and part of the community), leaked information that harmed EG and benefited Gamespot. E-sports isn't growing this way and if anything it shrunk. This is why there's a "gentlemen's agreement" of sorts to not publicly leak anything officially, or at least don't do intentionally that will harm someone else in the scene. Slasher isn't a journalist, he's an e-sports journalist. He doesn't go out on the street with a camera crew interviewing people after incidents like a journalist does. He reports on news specifically within the realm of e-sports and part of that means to not hurt e-sports in your actions.
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On January 16 2013 19:52 Kishin2 wrote:
In this case, Slasher (someone with credibility and part of the community), leaked information that harmed EG and benefited Gamespot.
Slasher didn't "leak" anything. The person who leaked was whomever was authorized to have the information who shared it with someone who wasn't.*
Also, it's not a journalist's job to stand up for the better interests of "esports," as though those can even be identified in a situation like this.
* Edit: Probably half of Team EG told someone who wasn't actually supposed to know about any given piece of interesting news. These leaks happen because teams have no discipline for controlling competitively useful information about their plans.
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On January 16 2013 19:48 Lysenko wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 19:43 Angelbelow wrote:
I will say that trying to "control" media/journalists is impossible, so I agree with you on that point. But I also think one journalists continuously leaking information after being told not to will lead to a freeze out of information for that individual Journalists don't "leak" information except to the extent they promise not to talk about something and then talk. This is not that. What Alex is complaining about is Slasher finding third-party (i.e. non-EG) sources about EG-related stories and then writing based on what they tell him. And guess what, his stories wind up being accurate! Imagine that! What's happened here is that an organization, EG, has trusted employees who can't actually be trusted to keep their mouths shut, they talk to someone else, and it gets back to a reporter. Blaming the reporter for this is nuts. It's the employees who have violated confidence. Alternatively, in some instances, there's some hostile party who has the story and leaks it. In that case, the story wasn't in the hands of (name your favorite sympathetic party) to control.
I see, so your perspective is that the company of interest should protect their "information" and that journalists who happen to find that information are free to reveal it. Simple and straight forward, and not illogical. Therefore, I don't disagree with you.
However, I don't think that is the best approach to enhancing starcraft's popularity, beneficial for sponsors/teams and maintaining the interest of their fans. Eventually, this will be a burden for slasher as well right? If no one goes to him with information for fear that he'll kill the hype, then doesn't he lose out too.
I do think what TB did was quite clever and perhaps that will be more of a middle ground from now on.
Finally, I don't think Alex is questioning Slashers right to report, its more that he is furious that slasher exercised "poor" judgment.
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On January 16 2013 19:44 Lysenko wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 19:41 seiferoth10 wrote:
Wow, you just disregarded a whole scenario where they don't have control over their information, and proceeded to rant on about how they should control their own information (while ignoring the scenario where they have no control over their information).
You either have control over information or you don't. If you do, you have to manage it. If you don't, you have to plan for it getting out and beat leaks to the punch so that you can control the story. Seriously, this whole industry is amateur hour when it comes to dealing with the media.
They did manage, Alex offered Slasher an exclusive interview with JD to keep his signing under wraps, but Slasher broke it anyway. Nothing wrong with that. Alex tried to reward him to work with him and keep it under wraps but Slasher refused it. So now Alex is on the other side of the bridge and punishing him (burned bridges comment) to make sure he keeps it under wraps.
They were both reasonable, I don't see any flaws in logic in either position. The problem is when you're on the negative side of the spectrum, if you agitate the situation enough both sides will be out to destroy each other.
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Man stop the "it kills esports" shit. Slasher is a journalist who works for Gamespot, if he finds out a new and confirms it (or somebody LEAKS HIM information), he is not only professionally obligated to release it, but morally TOO to his boss, who will decide. Talking about "gentlemen's agreement" has nothing to do with this.
You have the EG TL example with JYP who couldn't shut his mouth. This shit happens, many times is in your control to stop it, many other times, it isn't. But blaming the journalist is not the answer.
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Since when is it the journalist responsibility to keep secret business info? It's all on the team. If they don't want it released, sort your team out. Slasher has an employee, frankly I doubt he cares about the EG team. He answers to his employer and he has to provide what he was hired to do.
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On January 16 2013 20:02 DwD wrote:
Since when is it the journalist responsibility to keep secret business info? It's all on the team. If they don't want it released, sort your team out. Slasher has an employee, frankly I doubt he cares about the EG team. He answers to his employer and he has to provide what he was hired to do.
You should watch the VOD first.
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On January 16 2013 20:01 seiferoth10 wrote:
They did manage, Alex offered Slasher an exclusive interview with JD to keep his signing under wraps, but Slasher broke it anyway. Nothing wrong with that. Alex tried to reward him to work with him and keep it under wraps but Slasher refused it. So now Alex is on the other side of the bridge and punishing him (burned bridges comment) to make sure he keeps it under wraps.
That seems like damage control, trying to get control of the story once the horse has left the barn, so to speak. That's not managing the story.
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On January 16 2013 20:02 DwD wrote:
Since when is it the journalist responsibility to keep secret business info? It's all on the team. If they don't want it released, sort your team out. Slasher has an employee, frankly I doubt he cares about the EG team. He answers to his employer and he has to provide what he was hired to do.
You know he could find out via a third party source right? Say... a competing team that lost the bid for said player? Not everything is "lol, just sort your team out".
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On January 16 2013 20:04 Angelbelow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 20:02 DwD wrote:
Since when is it the journalist responsibility to keep secret business info? It's all on the team. If they don't want it released, sort your team out. Slasher has an employee, frankly I doubt he cares about the EG team. He answers to his employer and he has to provide what he was hired to do.
You should watch the VOD first.
There's not a single thing in the VOD that argues against that point of view. It's the way everyone outside of esports does it. (And, I mean that. EVERYONE.)
You know he could find out via a third party source right? Say... a competing team that lost the bid for said player? Not everything is "lol, just sort your team out".
Absolutely, and in that case it wasn't the team's story to control in the first place.
Edit: In this case, a team can still manage the story by accelerating their announcement so that it hits before the leak has an impact. This isn't some huge innovation, it's basic PR. Alex should direct his irritation into developing his public relations skills rather than lashing out at people like Slasher over this.
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Anybody who is a soccer fan knows that leaks don't reduce hype, if at all, they add to it. And the idea that you either choose to be a respected journalist with interviews/opinion articles or a tabloid leaker is silly at best. Serious journalists publish leaked information all the time, and the punchline is, they have integrity to do so from their level of regular journalism AND previous leaked information. And nobody holds a serious grudge.
I understand it is a different world, different amounts of money and everything, but the thing is, it is teams responsibility to keep their info tight. Obviously, there will be leaks from other parties, but it is not Slasher's fault. It is a part of the dance between the teams, where they try to get an upper hand for themselves.
And seriously, freedom of press and everything, the discussion should stop after those two words are uttered. Bullying the journos is immature at best, and totally hypocritical, considering the previous drama we had in our communities, and the way it was handled.
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On January 16 2013 20:05 Lysenko wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 20:04 Angelbelow wrote:On January 16 2013 20:02 DwD wrote:
Since when is it the journalist responsibility to keep secret business info? It's all on the team. If they don't want it released, sort your team out. Slasher has an employee, frankly I doubt he cares about the EG team. He answers to his employer and he has to provide what he was hired to do.
You should watch the VOD first. There's not a single thing in the VOD that argues against that point of view. It's the way everyone outside of esports does it. (And, I mean that. EVERYONE.)
Which is why he should watch it first. Because its not whats being discussed in the VODs so I don't understand what the purpose of his post is.
Again, this is a model that works for professional teams who generate millions of dollars from ticket sales, merchandise, TV deals, sponsorships etc. It won't work here.
I know you're an EG fan but you don't agree with their POV in this instance. How about TBs?
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On January 16 2013 20:04 Angelbelow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 20:02 DwD wrote:
Since when is it the journalist responsibility to keep secret business info? It's all on the team. If they don't want it released, sort your team out. Slasher has an employee, frankly I doubt he cares about the EG team. He answers to his employer and he has to provide what he was hired to do.
You should watch the VOD first.
I just did but please point me in the right direction and I'll watch again. Where in the VOD is your reply relevant?
On January 16 2013 20:05 seiferoth10 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 20:02 DwD wrote:
Since when is it the journalist responsibility to keep secret business info? It's all on the team. If they don't want it released, sort your team out. Slasher has an employee, frankly I doubt he cares about the EG team. He answers to his employer and he has to provide what he was hired to do.
You know he could find out via a third party source right? Say... a competing team that lost the bid for said player? Not everything is "lol, just sort your team out".
Oh you are right. But it's still his duty to report to his boss if he comes over info that could bring in good revenue. It's up to his boss if they should run it or not. It would be different if Slasher had his own website that he ran but he does not. He is an employee.
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On January 16 2013 20:08 Angelbelow wrote:
Again, this is a model that works for professional teams who generate millions of dollars from ticket sales, merchandise, TV deals, sponsorships etc. It won't work here.
Forget sports, it's how all interaction works with the media in every field.
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On January 16 2013 11:27 PrimeTimey wrote:
It is a management failure not a journalist failure.
If Alex G. doesn't want that information out there available to Slasher then don't let it get there.
Alex G. is at fault not Slasher.
Yes exactly end of discussion, well said
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Vod-ing right now. Interesting discussion but someone should buy Slasher a new mic. This is a pain to listen to.
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EPT
